You Heard It Here First

[HarveyWallbangers]

This will go down as a good draft class. That's going out on a limb for most people, but I'll say it now. I'm optimistic and realistic. I don't like how Ted Thompson has handled FA this offseason. I understand that he probably tried to get a lot more guys than we even know about, but he wasn't successful.

However, I can't think this is a bad draft--since we drafted so many guys that I liked when I did my pre-draft research (Harrell, Jackson, Rouse, Barbre, Clowney). I liked the Crosby pick. I liked the TE in the last round. Not sure about Jones or Wynn. I didn't really research Jones, and I didn't like Wynn much, but maybe he can be a good hybrid RB/FB (like Da Poop). Don't like the Bishop pick because I'm not sure he has the speed to succeed in our scheme. I think Johnson and Simpson have a good shot at making the team over him--provided they stay clean. Not sure about the Hall pick, but we could use some help on ST. Plus, he provides some roster flexibility with FB and LB background.

Overall, I think this class will fall somewhere between 2005 (hard to say; looks average, but Rodgers could change that and losing Murphy really hurt) and 2006 (looks very promising). Grades are silly, I know, but looking back in 5 years, I'm going to predict this will look like a solid B+ draft class.

[BF4MVP]

TT always seems to pick guys that fans think are reaches, etc, and so far it has worked out pretty well..I'm reserving judgement..

I think Jackson will make the most immediate impact of anyone we picked..Maybe Crosby too..

[3irty1]

Why don't they just use Harrell at fullback? We can make our own fridge!!!!!

[BallHawk]

This is how every draft works out with TT:

Draft Day Reaction: He didn't help Favre. He reached on several players. He's too cautious to trade up, but impulsive to trade down. He wants this team to be his own. This will be a draft we will remember as a blemish in Packer History.

After the season: Wow, TT knew what he was doing. Who knew?

[retailguy]

Re: You Heard It Here First

This will go down as a good draft class. That's going out on a limb for most people, but I'll say it now. I'm optimistic and realistic. I don't like how Ted Thompson has handled FA this offseason. I understand that he probably tried to get a lot more guys than we even know about, but he wasn't successful.

However, I can't think this is a bad draft--since we drafted so many guys that I liked when I did my pre-draft research (Harrell, Jackson, Rouse, Barbre, Clowney). I liked the Crosby pick. I liked the TE in the last round. Not sure about Jones or Wynn. I didn't really research Jones, and I didn't like Wynn much, but maybe he can be a good hybrid RB/FB (like Da Poop). Don't like the Bishop pick because I'm not sure he has the speed to succeed in our scheme. I think Johnson and Simpson have a good shot at making the team over him--provided they stay clean. Not sure about the Hall pick, but we could use some help on ST. Plus, he provides some roster flexibility with FB and LB background.

Overall, I think this class will fall somewhere between 2005 (hard to say; looks average, but Rodgers could change that and losing Murphy really hurt) and 2006 (looks very promising). Grades are silly, I know, but looking back in 5 years, I'm going to predict this will look like a solid B+ draft class.

I know half of this place won't believe me when I say this, but Harv, I don't necessarily disagree with you.

That being said, I'm not sure that this draft class will help much in 2007, which is what I've maintained all along. Will they play supporting roles? Of course, hell the RB might even end up starting. But, realistically, how many balls are the 3rd rd WR, and the 5th rd WR going to catch? 10 to 15 each?

Maybe the DT comes in and lights the world on fire, but, that sure didn't happen with Mario last year. Heck even Julius Peppers needed some time to get acclimated and he's a far better talent than this guy. The RB has the best hope of contributing, and that's not even a sure thing.

Harv, what ticks me off, (not with you, just in general), is this is what I've been saying for 2 months now. WHO IS GOING TO HELP in '07? Everyone told me to wait for the draft, I did, NOW WHAT?

As for the draft class, it could wind up being OK, maybe even good. Don't know, and today, don't care. I want to know what happens in September 2007, not September of 2009.

[falco]

I wonder where SOV is...

[MJZiggy]

Why don't they just use Harrell at fullback? We can make our own fridge!!!!!

See? We drafted our offensive weapon right there...

Harvey, I'm totally with you. Optimistic Realism reigns!!

RG, you know I think these guys'll surprise you. Either that or they won't. We'll see very soon.

[Lurker64]

Re: You Heard It Here First

Harv, what ticks me off, (not with you, just in general), is this is what I've been saying for 2 months now. WHO IS GOING TO HELP in '07? Everyone told me to wait for the draft, I did, NOW WHAT?

My suspicion is that the dividends on "draft the guys who will help you a year or two down the line" is that your question can be answered with "the guys TT drafted a year or two ago." If we honestly believe that the guys that TT drafted this year can be good NFL players in a year or two, why don't we think that the players he drafted a year or two ago likewise can't step up and help the team?

I honestly think that the coaching staff and the GM thought safety was much less of a need than we on the internet do, since they've had a hell of a lot more opportunities to look at Underwood, Culver, and Bigby and project their ability to play at a high level in the NFL (they also likely know a hell of a lot more about evaluating talent than any of us do.) There may be similar situations at other positions. Maybe Zac Alcorn and Tory Humphrey have a shot at greatness? I don't know, I've never seen them play, or at least I certainly haven't seen them do anything recently after say a year of practice and a whole offseason (which might do a lot.) Similarly, Donald Lee didn't do much last year but he flashed a lot the year before last. Maybe MM's guys believe, for whatever reason, they can make him into the kind of player he was the year before last.

I think the time to panic is when we see that those guys can't produce by seeing them in preseason, etc. Not when we suspect they can't produce because we haven't seen them in 9 months or so.

[RashanGary]

Re: You Heard It Here First

Harv, what ticks me off, (not with you, just in general), is this is what I've been saying for 2 months now. WHO IS GOING TO HELP in '07? Everyone told me to wait for the draft, I did, NOW WHAT?

That's an easy one. We had our first good draft in 5 years last year. We acctually stand a good chance to see real growth from within. I know, we're not used to that but it really does happen around the league. Look at SD. Look at Cincy..

Guys do get better, just not the ones who are drafted by bad GM's who are reaching for need.

[Scott Campbell]

I wonder where SOV is...

He's a Bears fan now.

[wist43]

Re: You Heard It Here First

This will go down as a good draft class. That's going out on a limb for most people, but I'll say it now. I'm optimistic and realistic. I don't like how Ted Thompson has handled FA this offseason. I understand that he probably tried to get a lot more guys than we even know about, but he wasn't successful.

However, I can't think this is a bad draft--since we drafted so many guys that I liked when I did my pre-draft research (Harrell, Jackson, Rouse, Barbre, Clowney). I liked the Crosby pick. I liked the TE in the last round. Not sure about Jones or Wynn. I didn't really research Jones, and I didn't like Wynn much, but maybe he can be a good hybrid RB/FB (like Da Poop). Don't like the Bishop pick because I'm not sure he has the speed to succeed in our scheme. I think Johnson and Simpson have a good shot at making the team over him--provided they stay clean. Not sure about the Hall pick, but we could use some help on ST. Plus, he provides some roster flexibility with FB and LB background.

Overall, I think this class will fall somewhere between 2005 (hard to say; looks average, but Rodgers could change that and losing Murphy really hurt) and 2006 (looks very promising). Grades are silly, I know, but looking back in 5 years, I'm going to predict this will look like a solid B+ draft class.

I know half of this place won't believe me when I say this, but Harv, I don't necessarily disagree with you.

That being said, I'm not sure that this draft class will help much in 2007, which is what I've maintained all along. Will they play supporting roles? Of course, hell the RB might even end up starting. But, realistically, how many balls are the 3rd rd WR, and the 5th rd WR going to catch? 10 to 15 each?

Maybe the DT comes in and lights the world on fire, but, that sure didn't happen with Mario last year. Heck even Julius Peppers needed some time to get acclimated and he's a far better talent than this guy. The RB has the best hope of contributing, and that's not even a sure thing.

Harv, what ticks me off, (not with you, just in general), is this is what I've been saying for 2 months now. WHO IS GOING TO HELP in '07? Everyone told me to wait for the draft, I did, NOW WHAT?

As for the draft class, it could wind up being OK, maybe even good. Don't know, and today, don't care. I want to know what happens in September 2007, not September of 2009.

I agree with you guys probably for different reasons than each of you have; and, I agree that this will probably be a pretty good draft. If Harrell stays healthy, I think he has a chance to be a damn good player.

First off, I agree with Harv in that this years help should be coming from the '05 and '06 draft choices. I expect improvement out of Colledge, Spitz, Jennings, Hawk, Jolly, and Underwood.

That said, it's not enough, and the Packers really don't stand much of a chance of winning anything. They may have a shot at the division for no other reason than it's pathetic, but they certainly don't scare anyone.

Moving forward, Favre sets his records, has his fill of TT's 10 year plan, and retires... fast forward to the '08 draft. TT will not, under any cirmcustances, draft to fill a need - still a huge hole at WR; CB's are a year older; still no legit TE; and even though I'm hoping that Jackson can be an every down back - I'm not really holding my breath - so you've probably still got a hole at RB.

How in the living hell does he fill all those holes in the '08 draft and offseason??? And, of course we're facing the prospect of not only not having Favre, worse than that, we're going to have Aaron Rodgers under center!!!!

So that gets you thru the '08 season w/o really having a chance to win - and TT still committed to not drafting for need - of course.

That will get you thru 4 years of pretty much nothing under TT... which brings me to my point...

I'm beginning to see TT as a very good talent evaluator, but a poor GM... I know I just said a couple of weeks ago that I thought that TT was a good GM; but, really what I should have said is what I've just said - good scout/talent evaluator, poor GM.

He is beyond rigid... and, steadfastly refuses to make moves to address needs. A good GM needs to do more than just pick the BPA... he needs to flesh out a complete roster. TT believes that, over time, and draft after mind numbing draft, that eventually the talent curve will catch up to the need curve, and all will be well... that's all well and good if your plan to eventually be a winner is a 10-15 year plan.

Pure and simple, if you are to ever have a shot at a championship, you have to actively, and aggressively address needs at some point... TT will never, ever do that - and, b/c of that, and many other reasons, I don't think that TT will ever be capable of bringing a championship back to GB.

TT is a damn good scout... I'd like to see him go back to that. 10 year rebuilding plans just don't cut it in the NFL.

[RashanGary]

What do you think Pickett and Woodson were Wist?


You said after the 4-12 season that the Packers were at minimum 3 years away but more likely 5. That was before you knew what Thompson was about or how he would approach needs. At that time you said the Packers scouting staff was doomed for failure and that TT was going to bring much of the same ballerinas.

Now, 2 years later AFTER Thompson addressed 2 major needs in FA *CB and DT* you're saying that Thompson could have and should have filled all of these holes that you yourself said would be impossible to build in 2 or less years.

The fact is, the only reason we have a team that stands a chance to be pretty average and still have the $$ to go damn crazy if they want is becuase Thompson can build an average team while using about 1/2 of his financial recourses. Depth like you find in SD takes time to build. They have ZERO FA's but they draft for BPA every year and eventually it all piles up to the point where no team can field a team as powerfull as yours.

We're on that track and yes it does take a little longer but that is the way it works. If Favre leaves, we have to hope we get fortunate with a real stud and we will probably struggle but I believe, and at one time you did too, that the Packers are doomed for now anyway. They might as well build it right. They might as well build from the ground up. You'd be more willing to do this if you acctually believed what you said 2 off seasons ago but somehow I don't think you remember how bad this team was and to some degree still is.

[Sparkey]

Re: You Heard It Here First

This will go down as a good draft class. That's going out on a limb for most people, but I'll say it now. I'm optimistic and realistic. I don't like how Ted Thompson has handled FA this offseason. I understand that he probably tried to get a lot more guys than we even know about, but he wasn't successful.

However, I can't think this is a bad draft--since we drafted so many guys that I liked when I did my pre-draft research (Harrell, Jackson, Rouse, Barbre, Clowney). I liked the Crosby pick. I liked the TE in the last round. Not sure about Jones or Wynn. I didn't really research Jones, and I didn't like Wynn much, but maybe he can be a good hybrid RB/FB (like Da Poop). Don't like the Bishop pick because I'm not sure he has the speed to succeed in our scheme. I think Johnson and Simpson have a good shot at making the team over him--provided they stay clean. Not sure about the Hall pick, but we could use some help on ST. Plus, he provides some roster flexibility with FB and LB background.

Overall, I think this class will fall somewhere between 2005 (hard to say; looks average, but Rodgers could change that and losing Murphy really hurt) and 2006 (looks very promising). Grades are silly, I know, but looking back in 5 years, I'm going to predict this will look like a solid B+ draft class.

I know half of this place won't believe me when I say this, but Harv, I don't necessarily disagree with you.

That being said, I'm not sure that this draft class will help much in 2007, which is what I've maintained all along. Will they play supporting roles? Of course, hell the RB might even end up starting. But, realistically, how many balls are the 3rd rd WR, and the 5th rd WR going to catch? 10 to 15 each?

Maybe the DT comes in and lights the world on fire, but, that sure didn't happen with Mario last year. Heck even Julius Peppers needed some time to get acclimated and he's a far better talent than this guy. The RB has the best hope of contributing, and that's not even a sure thing.

Harv, what ticks me off, (not with you, just in general), is this is what I've been saying for 2 months now. WHO IS GOING TO HELP in '07? Everyone told me to wait for the draft, I did, NOW WHAT?

As for the draft class, it could wind up being OK, maybe even good. Don't know, and today, don't care. I want to know what happens in September 2007, not September of 2009.

I agree with you guys probably for different reasons than each of you have; and, I agree that this will probably be a pretty good draft. If Harrell stays healthy, I think he has a chance to be a damn good player.

First off, I agree with Harv in that this years help should be coming from the '05 and '06 draft choices. I expect improvement out of Colledge, Spitz, Jennings, Hawk, Jolly, and Underwood.

That said, it's not enough, and the Packers really don't stand much of a chance of winning anything. They may have a shot at the division for no other reason than it's pathetic, but they certainly don't scare anyone.

Moving forward, Favre sets his records, has his fill of TT's 10 year plan, and retires... fast forward to the '08 draft. TT will not, under any cirmcustances, draft to fill a need - still a huge hole at WR; CB's are a year older; still no legit TE; and even though I'm hoping that Jackson can be an every down back - I'm not really holding my breath - so you've probably still got a hole at RB.

How in the living hell does he fill all those holes in the '08 draft and offseason??? And, of course we're facing the prospect of not only not having Favre, worse than that, we're going to have Aaron Rodgers under center!!!!

So that gets you thru the '08 season w/o really having a chance to win - and TT still committed to not drafting for need - of course.

That will get you thru 4 years of pretty much nothing under TT... which brings me to my point...

I'm beginning to see TT as a very good talent evaluator, but a poor GM... I know I just said a couple of weeks ago that I thought that TT was a good GM; but, really what I should have said is what I've just said - good scout/talent evaluator, poor GM.

He is beyond rigid... and, steadfastly refuses to make moves to address needs. A good GM needs to do more than just pick the BPA... he needs to flesh out a complete roster. TT believes that, over time, and draft after mind numbing draft, that eventually the talent curve will catch up to the need curve, and all will be well... that's all well and good if your plan to eventually be a winner is a 10-15 year plan.

Pure and simple, if you are to ever have a shot at a championship, you have to actively, and aggressively address needs at some point... TT will never, ever do that - and, b/c of that, and many other reasons, I don't think that TT will ever be capable of bringing a championship back to GB.

TT is a damn good scout... I'd like to see him go back to that. 10 year rebuilding plans just don't cut it in the NFL.

So is Green Bay one or two players away from being a SUperBowl contender?

I dont know how anyone could believe that to be true and that is the only time you see teams make bold aggressive moves. When they believe they are only a player or two away. New England for example.

Would two stud players put GB in the same category as Indy or SanDiego or New England etc? Answer... No. So be patient and build slowly and then if you manage your drafts, you can maintain that level somewhat....

[Iron Mike]

I wonder where SOV is...

He's a Bears fan now.

HAHAHAHA!!! BEAR DOWN PISS AND MOLD CLOWNS!

[RashanGary]

My point is that blowing our wad now would only result in mediocrity. I'm willing to take a risk and lay it on the line for excellence. I'm willing to allow a guy to build it the right way; to take that chance of finding a special player to hang our cheesehead on. I'm sick of sticking one finger in the hole of an old canoe to find another one popping up 3 inches away. Eventually you run out of fingers as Harlan found out when he fired the douche bag that preceeded Thompson. The only hope was to build a new, state of the art canoe; one with a fucking 120 horse yamaha outboard strapped to the back and rockets on the sides. Bring in the best damn canoe craftsman you can find and let him do his work. He might have to climb to the top of a far away mountain to cut down the tree of fucking canoe glory but let this guy do his job. That is where we are at. You knew it at one time but apparently the imrpovement and massive amounts of money have you forgetting how impossible this task once was. That alone is a good sign if you would take the time to see it.