Harlan regrets giving Sherman both jobs

[retailguy]

As long as were talking about hindsight, you left out LeCharles Bentley, who you lobbied for big time last year.

And how would you know if LeCharles would've been hurt had he played for Green Bay? The odds of him getting a Staph infection had he been in Green Bay even if he did get hurt are very small. Had he been anywhere else BUT Cleveland his career wouldn't be in danger of being over...

This team NEEDED a veteran to anchor the line last year. Not sure that it needed LeCharles, but he was the best one available. In my opinion it still needs one.

[Zool]

As long as were talking about hindsight, you left out LeCharles Bentley, who you lobbied for big time last year.

And how would you know if LeCharles would've been hurt had he played for Green Bay? The odds of him getting a Staph infection had he been in Green Bay even if he did get hurt are very small. Had he been anywhere else BUT Cleveland his career wouldn't be in danger of being over...

This team NEEDED a veteran to anchor the line last year. Not sure that it needed LeCharles, but he was the best one available. In my opinion it still needs one.

I could be wrong, but I think he was just adding a player that probably would have helped. SC is so deadpan sometimes that its hard to tell.

[Guiness]

As long as were talking about hindsight, you left out LeCharles Bentley, who you lobbied for big time last year.

And how would you know if LeCharles would've been hurt had he played for Green Bay? The odds of him getting a Staph infection had he been in Green Bay even if he did get hurt are very small. Had he been anywhere else BUT Cleveland his career wouldn't be in danger of being over...

This team NEEDED a veteran to anchor the line last year. Not sure that it needed LeCharles, but he was the best one available. In my opinion it still needs one.

Not sure what you mean by 'anywhere BUT Cleveland'? Did they have a run on staph infections at the hospitals there?

As far as the veteran presence, our tackles were supposed to provide that...it didn't necessarily work out. FWIW I always thought it was Riviera who was the heart of that line when he was here.

[retailguy]

As long as were talking about hindsight, you left out LeCharles Bentley, who you lobbied for big time last year.

And how would you know if LeCharles would've been hurt had he played for Green Bay? The odds of him getting a Staph infection had he been in Green Bay even if he did get hurt are very small. Had he been anywhere else BUT Cleveland his career wouldn't be in danger of being over...

This team NEEDED a veteran to anchor the line last year. Not sure that it needed LeCharles, but he was the best one available. In my opinion it still needs one.

Not sure what you mean by 'anywhere BUT Cleveland'? Did they have a run on staph infections at the hospitals there?

As far as the veteran presence, our tackles were supposed to provide that...it didn't necessarily work out. FWIW I always thought it was Riviera who was the heart of that line when he was here.

There have been several instances of Cleveland players getting staph infections in the last couple of years, including Kellen Winslow I think.

Seems to me it was 4 or 5, at a time when no other team in the league is experiencing any issues.

[swede]

I remember hearing that as well, RG. I think I heard about it when a college player died from an aggressive staph infection last year. Cleveland was mentioned as a place that had a higher incidence of staph infections.

Another reason to join Sigmund Snopek the III in reminding ourselves to, "Thank God this isn't Cleveland."

[mraynrand]

Harlan's mistakes:

1) Hiring a guy for Coach and GM (contradicted his own philosophy)
2) Firing Sherman as GM but not coach. Terrible move for Sherman, TT, and the organization. If you're starting over, start over. Harlan was justified in firing Sherman - he totally screwed up as GM following the Philly loss (and it could and has been argued that he screwed up within that game). Despite his success in GB, it's perfectly reasonable to fire a guy for not getting to the big game.

Fritz, you're points are well taken. I maintain that barring injury, the 2002 version of the Packers was an NFC Championship team. It all cam down to injuries and in reality, came down to one play in Tampa, where Terry Glenn invented a route, the ball was intercepted and Sapp destroyed Clifton and effectively ended the Packers' season. Sure there were tons of injuries (9 starters lost over the course of the season and the playoff game with ATL), but in retrospect, Sherman got 3 years as GM. Had he won it all in 2002, who knows - perhaps he would have rebuilt like TT. I have to admit, I kinda want him to get another job in the NFL as Coach or GM to see what he does. The time and circumstances in GB really didn't provide a big enough 'sample size'

[Bretsky]

For all those folks who believe that Thompson should throw everything at the wall in a last ditch effort to win a SB with Brett Favre, I would refer you to the Mike Sherman years.

Sherman tried just that - when Favre was younger and ostensibly a better QB than he is now. Sherman signed Wahle to a crazy contract that everyone knew had a "poison pill" in it that all but assured the Pack would have to let him go at some point. He threw lots of money at defenders like cletidus hunt and Joe Johnson and KGB, he traded up in draft after draft in an effort to get immediate, impact players. Sometimes this worked (Javon Walker) and often it didn't (Donnell Washington, James Lee, BJ Sander). He traded a second round pick for a proven corner (Al Harris) and traded a fourth rounder for a receiver he thought would be a huge asset for the offense (Terry Glenn).

This is not meant as a criticism of Sherman. It was what he thought was best for the organization, and he pursued a Super Bowl as he thought best. You can't argue with his reasons for acting as he did.

However, it did not work. It didn't even get the Packers into the NFC championship game.

Given that, and given the free agent class this year, I'm not sure how anyone can stand back and look at the situation and believe that signing some free agents and trading for Randy Moss (who by all reports was not terribly keen to come here) would get this club to a Super Bowl.

Last year was the year to go all out; guys like Chris Hope; Weatherspoon. There were plenty of LB's and Safeties that he could have signed in addition to Woodsen if we didn't heavily frontload that deal.

I agree the free agent class was weak this year; but we could have done something.

Either way I've lowered my Super Bowl soon expecations and am resigned to see how this thing plays out.

As long as were talking about hindsight, you left out LeCharles Bentley, who you lobbied for big time last year.

PLEASE FIND MY BIG TIME LOBBING; I MAY HAVE LISTED HIM AS AN OPTION, BUT IF YOU ARE CONCERNED WITH ACCURACY I WANTED A Offensive Guard.

Also, for those who correctly remember will recall that the player I heavily lobbied for was

WILL WITHERSPOON

[retailguy]

PLEASE FIND MY BIG TIME LOBBING; I MAY HAVE LISTED HIM AS AN OPTION, BUT IF YOU ARE CONCERNED WITH ACCURACY I WANTED A Offensive Guard.

Also, for those who correctly remember will recall that the player I heavily lobbied for was

WILL WITHERSPOON

Liar! Liar! You're a TURTLE LOVING liar! :P

[Rastak]

For all those folks who believe that Thompson should throw everything at the wall in a last ditch effort to win a SB with Brett Favre, I would refer you to the Mike Sherman years.

Sherman tried just that - when Favre was younger and ostensibly a better QB than he is now. Sherman signed Wahle to a crazy contract that everyone knew had a "poison pill" in it that all but assured the Pack would have to let him go at some point. He threw lots of money at defenders like cletidus hunt and Joe Johnson and KGB, he traded up in draft after draft in an effort to get immediate, impact players. Sometimes this worked (Javon Walker) and often it didn't (Donnell Washington, James Lee, BJ Sander). He traded a second round pick for a proven corner (Al Harris) and traded a fourth rounder for a receiver he thought would be a huge asset for the offense (Terry Glenn).

This is not meant as a criticism of Sherman. It was what he thought was best for the organization, and he pursued a Super Bowl as he thought best. You can't argue with his reasons for acting as he did.

However, it did not work. It didn't even get the Packers into the NFC championship game.

Given that, and given the free agent class this year, I'm not sure how anyone can stand back and look at the situation and believe that signing some free agents and trading for Randy Moss (who by all reports was not terribly keen to come here) would get this club to a Super Bowl.

Last year was the year to go all out; guys like Chris Hope; Weatherspoon. There were plenty of LB's and Safeties that he could have signed in addition to Woodsen if we didn't heavily frontload that deal.

I agree the free agent class was weak this year; but we could have done something.

Either way I've lowered my Super Bowl soon expecations and am resigned to see how this thing plays out.

As long as were talking about hindsight, you left out LeCharles Bentley, who you lobbied for big time last year.

PLEASE FIND MY BIG TIME LOBBING; I MAY HAVE LISTED HIM AS AN OPTION, BUT IF YOU ARE CONCERNED WITH ACCURACY I WANTED A Offensive Guard.

Also, for those who correctly remember will recall that the player I heavily lobbied for was

WILL WITHERSPOON

Actually Bentley can play gaurd...or could before he destroyed his knee. Also, who's to say the exact same thing would have happened in Green Bay? Highly unlikely if you ask me......

[Bretsky]

For all those folks who believe that Thompson should throw everything at the wall in a last ditch effort to win a SB with Brett Favre, I would refer you to the Mike Sherman years.

Sherman tried just that - when Favre was younger and ostensibly a better QB than he is now. Sherman signed Wahle to a crazy contract that everyone knew had a "poison pill" in it that all but assured the Pack would have to let him go at some point. He threw lots of money at defenders like cletidus hunt and Joe Johnson and KGB, he traded up in draft after draft in an effort to get immediate, impact players. Sometimes this worked (Javon Walker) and often it didn't (Donnell Washington, James Lee, BJ Sander). He traded a second round pick for a proven corner (Al Harris) and traded a fourth rounder for a receiver he thought would be a huge asset for the offense (Terry Glenn).

This is not meant as a criticism of Sherman. It was what he thought was best for the organization, and he pursued a Super Bowl as he thought best. You can't argue with his reasons for acting as he did.

However, it did not work. It didn't even get the Packers into the NFC championship game.

Given that, and given the free agent class this year, I'm not sure how anyone can stand back and look at the situation and believe that signing some free agents and trading for Randy Moss (who by all reports was not terribly keen to come here) would get this club to a Super Bowl.

Last year was the year to go all out; guys like Chris Hope; Weatherspoon. There were plenty of LB's and Safeties that he could have signed in addition to Woodsen if we didn't heavily frontload that deal.

I agree the free agent class was weak this year; but we could have done something.

Either way I've lowered my Super Bowl soon expecations and am resigned to see how this thing plays out.

As long as were talking about hindsight, you left out LeCharles Bentley, who you lobbied for big time last year.

PLEASE FIND MY BIG TIME LOBBING; I MAY HAVE LISTED HIM AS AN OPTION, BUT IF YOU ARE CONCERNED WITH ACCURACY I WANTED A Offensive Guard.

Also, for those who correctly remember will recall that the player I heavily lobbied for was

WILL WITHERSPOON

Actually Bentley can play gaurd...or could before he destroyed his knee. Also, who's to say the exact same thing would have happened in Green Bay? Highly unlikely if you ask me......

Yup, and I find humor for criticisms about Bentley that assume the same thing would have happened at another location.

But I don't recall any "lobbying", but whatever I guess.

And for what it's worth I'd have been "ok" with Bentley, but was not convinced at the price he commanded.

[The Shadow]

At least he is big enough to admit he made a mistake. Sherman was a terrible GM. Only Matt Millan is a worse GM.

Not many GM/Coaches are successful. Sherman would probably be good at one or the other at the same time. He wasn't horrible, there are worse. He made mistakes but he also drafted some quality players and wasn't afraid to look to free agency.

My take is that Bob Harlan should show more class and not go down that road.

How long must Mike Sherman be the fall guy in Green Bay?
ENOUGH !!!!!

Until a time machine is invented :
Remember ?
Ahmad Carroll
Joe Johnson
Donnell Washington
4th & 1
4th & 26
etc., etc., etc.

[GrnBay007]

Until a time machine is invented :
Remember ?

4th & 1
4th & 26
etc., etc., etc.

You had to say it!

[mraynrand]

At least he is big enough to admit he made a mistake. Sherman was a terrible GM. Only Matt Millan is a worse GM.

Not many GM/Coaches are successful. Sherman would probably be good at one or the other at the same time. He wasn't horrible, there are worse. He made mistakes but he also drafted some quality players and wasn't afraid to look to free agency.

My take is that Bob Harlan should show more class and not go down that road.

How long must Mike Sherman be the fall guy in Green Bay?
ENOUGH !!!!!

Until a time machine is invented :
Remember ?
Ahmad Carroll
Joe Johnson
Donnell Washington
4th & 1
4th & 26
etc., etc., etc.

For comparison, how about:
John Michels (first round bust 1997)
high priced FA injury bust (??? can't really think of one - how about Seth Joyner replacing Simmons?)
Jonathon Brown (3rd round DT 1998)
4th and 8 (SB XXXII)
3rd and 3 (with 8 seconds left in the 1998 wild card game v SF - 25 yard td from Young to T.O.)
etc. etc. etc. would include: Buckley, Reynolds, Antuan Edwards, Holliday, Warren .....

[Creepy]

John Michels (first round bust 1997)
high priced FA injury bust (??? can't really think of one - how about Seth Joyner replacing Simmons?)
Jonathon Brown (3rd round DT 1998)
4th and 8 (SB XXXII)
3rd and 3 (with 8 seconds left in the 1998 wild card game v SF - 25 yard td from Young to T.O.)


Going after Holmgren with these isn't fair.

John Michels - Starting LT in SB win over Patriots. may have sucked, but played in and won a SB. Favre was not blind sided in the 1996 SB.

Only high priced FAs signed by Holmgren were all part of SB team in 96. Beyond that I don't know of any.

The 4th and 8 against the Broncos never shuld have happened. On thrid down Freeman dropped a catch that would have been a TD. Should never have been a 4th & 8.

The 49ers shouldn't have won. The refs make the right call on Rices fumble and game over. At least Holmgren didn't blame the DC and fire him at the end of the season.

At least in Holmgrens defense, it wasn't all him. Can't say the same for Sherman.