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Originally posted by b bulldog
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Nice post.Formerly known as JustinHarrell. -
Favre
Certain people oughta be locked in a room and forced to watch 24 hrs straight of Scott Hunter, Scott Campbell, Randy White, and Jerry T just to name a few. Then again the minority opinion is usually off the wall which is why it's the MINORITY opinion. The great number of Packer fans appreciate and respect Favre and only a complete idiot would dispute that.
Most people who express minority opinions usually do so just to get a reaction...........Comment
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Re: Favre
People have differing opinions all the time and despite you're common insultes, people here have remained civil and reasonable toward you. You can make a point without calling someone an idiot. Acctually, people would probably take your point a lot mroe seriously because name calling really does turn poeple off.Originally posted by PacknutFormerly known as JustinHarrell.Comment
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Originally posted by JustinHarrell
Ya it is a nice post that is 1/2 right Brett very well has pushed TT into a corner, that fuckface got himself backed into himself by really not telling Brett he wanted to move into a different direction. He signed no recievers or lineman worth a shit in 2005, my two year old could have played pin the player on the donkey blindfolded and came up with something better. Brett holds all the cards here if TT reprimanded him he will be crucified and if he trades or cuts him he will be killed. No matter what bulldog might want to believe.Comment
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What are you talkign about? bulldog said Favre threw his team and GM under the bus. He said the guys he has arn't very good and they did nothing to help the offense. That kind of shit doesn't exactly build confidence in a group of young guys. He added that they use little kid gloves on Favre and they do. He's a star and he brings in money. That said, it's too bad diva athletes get away wtih this but it's part of the game.
The great leaders keep their mouths shut though.Formerly known as JustinHarrell.Comment
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Alright guys, I'm out of here. It's been a crazy last couple of hours. Hopefully this crap clears up and we have a great season...
See Ya'll tomorrow.Formerly known as JustinHarrell.Comment
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esoxx,
I explained that I think it was Favre's waffling on playing each year that probably contributed to the Pack not getting good FA's on offense.
I wouldnt sign as a FA when the key guy (Brett) wasnt possibly coming back the next year - and that has been the situation for the last 5 years.
I didnt imply that he was responsible for the gM's job in any way.Comment
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Re: Favre
Y'know, it's possible to respect him yet criticize him at the same time. The double-standard with Favre has gone too far. If any other player, besides Favre, speaks out about his GMs decisions, he would be thrown under the bus by the fans. However, since he is Favre, if we criticize him for creating a media circus than we are "complete idiots." Sure, he's a Packer all time great, but you've gotta draw the line somewhere.Originally posted by Packnut"I've got one word for you- Dallas, Texas, Super Bowl"- Jermichael FinleyComment
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Re: Favre
Or... they could watch Bart Starr, Lynn Dickey and Don Majkowski. In the 47 seasons from 1960 through 2006, between Starr, Dickey, Majkowski and Favre the Packers have had nearly 40 years with a pretty decent #1 QB.Originally posted by Packnut
Believe it or not, at some point in the future, the Packers will have another competent QB other than Brett Favre. I have no idea if it will be Aaron Rodgers, or Ingle Martin, or someone not yet on the Packers, or someone not yet born. Maybe it will be a free agent or someone traded for. But there will be someoneComment
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Re: Favre
Kind of like loving your kids while disciplining them for having disobeyed!Originally posted by BallHawkComment
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I always find it disappointing when super stars wind down their careers by whinning about the organization that has idolized and rewarded them for their long careers.
How many playoff chances did Green Bay give Favre? How many winning seasons? It's not like he played most of his career without legitimate playoff opportunities. He played in two Super Bowls, and had reasonably good chances to get to others. He even had the chance to be "the guy" on decent, but not great or favored teams which he could have carried through the playoffs with HOF performances. Several times he was not up to the task.
It's not like he hasn't had his chances. many players would be thrilled with half the chances Favre has had. Just because the last two seasons have been down years, I don't feel sorry one bit for Favre. He has had many, many chances. Yes, the team has had to rebuild. They had an amazing run. Just because it happens to coincide with the end of Favre's career doesn't make it an injustice to him.Comment
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Well said, Patler. I would add this: Favre is an emotional guy, and like so many qualities it's a double-edged sword. It makes him great and fun to watch, but it also can be detrimental to the team and to himself.
Favre is looking out for his own interests - he wants to win, and feels he doesn't have much time left. So, for him, Randy Moss was a no-brainer. That's an understandable point of view.
From the organizational point of view, however, it's not necessarily a slam dunk. It's clear that the Pack would have had to have topped NE's offer, which may have meant a third round pick or a fourth and sixth or fourth and fifth. At that cost, you have a guy coming in who may or may not be the guy he used to be, playing with a QB that may or may not play more than just this season. You have the salary cap room, yes, but should Favre retire after the season you are left with an historically impatient quarerback-eater who will cost a fair amount of money while potentially polluting the lockerroom.
The argument in favor of Moss would have been much stronger had that addition give the Packers a strong shot at getting to the NFC championship game this year. Obviously, the management felt that Moss was not the single missing piece. In short, the risk (Moss's baggage, uncertainty over Favre's future, salary, giving up draft pick of picks, question of how much Moss has left) outweighs the potential for the reward (NFC championsip game).
All this panning of TT also sometimes leans on revisionist history, and that's just flat out wrong to do. TT could not have re-signed Wahle and Rivera and Sharper. Everybody and his brother knew and said that Sherman's contract with Wahle was designed to be terminated because the contract jumped so much that everyone knew it was one of those make-the-agent-look good things where both sides know that at a certain point the contract would be untenable for the team and could not be honored. I don't mind criticism of TT - there are some things he's screwed up, the Walker situation for example, in my mind - but it ought to be based on something other than revisionist history.
I'd close by seconding Patler's sentiments about Favre. Ernie Banks famously never got to play in a World Series. Here in Detroit, Al Kaline got to play in one World Series at the end of his career. Dan Marino got into one Super Bowl early and never made it back. For the vast majority of Favre's career, he's played on winning teams (thanks in part to his own skills) and been to two Super Bowls. He's very fortunate - many excellent players do not get the opportunities that he has had. I respect that he's frustrated, but I don't think the Packers "owed" him Randy Moss if the team did not think getting Moss was a good move for the organization.
My guess is that Favre, as he has done before, will backtrack a bit on this issue.
How well the Packers do this year remains to be seen."The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."
KYPackComment
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Shut up and grow some thicker skin. If a little name calling hurts your feeilngs then you may want to go to the kiddie thread. Give me a break. This was the biggest overstatement about someone going personal that I've ever heard. The guy used the word 'idiot' and now he's Imus-P.R. style?Originally posted by JustinHarrell
With that said, I can't believe the crap I'm reading in this thread on a subject in which NOBODY even knows what Favre really said about being traded! Anonymous sources? That's all the story about Favre asking for a trade was based on.
I always find it amusing when so many of you line up and open your mouth before you know what has even happened.
Here is what we know:
Favre criticized the Packers for not signing Randy Moss. He inferred that the offense needs help and that management isn't providing that help despite having the cap room to do so.
Anonymous sources said Favre demanded a trade.
That's it. That's all we know.
Shouldn't what was really said, and the context it was said in, matter?
Hypothetically, what if Favre and Thompson were in a heated argument in which Thompson was acting like an A-hole? What if, in that same argument, Thompson insulted Favre and Favre turned around and told him to trade him?
Would that be viewed differently than Favre just calling up, out of the blue, and demanding a trade?
I'm merely asking whether the actual facts and the context of what was said matters to some of you? To me, it does. To some of you, I don't think it matters. You just want to attack, attack, attack.... And I've seen this not only with Favre. There is a camp that hates Favre and wants to attack him. There is a camp that hates THompson and wants to attack him. There is a camp that hates Sherman and likes to attack him. It's crazy sometimes to see it happen but some of you just want to attack despite the facts.
If criticizing the GM is wrong than every single one of you guys out there that have griped about the Packers off-season and draft need to condemn yourself too. Are you going to tell me that Favre can't rip the GM but you can? What the GM does actually has a real life affect on Favre and his life.
There are two things that I thought of when this happened. Make it three...
1. God, I hope this isn't true.
2. The people who ripped Favre for speaking on Walker (I was not one of those guys) can now legitimately take a shot at Favre and say that had Favre kept his mouth shut that he'd have the big play WR that he so badly desires in J.Walker. It's a valid point for those that ripped Favre about ripping Walker. The Packers wouldn't have needed Moss if they hadn't been forced into an ugly situation that led to trading Walker and Favre helped push Walker out of G.B..
3. Favre isn't saying anything that many fans haven't also been saying about Thompson.
Those were my thoughts. I sat and listened to guys on the radio say how Favre has earned everything and should be given anything he wants. I listened to guys talking about how dumb Thompson is and how he dropped the ball and should be fired. I listened to people rip Favre and say how disgusted they are with him. I listened to fans list player after player that they wished we would've signed and I just shook my head. It's all so stupid. The comments are so stupid. All of them, on both sides of the issue.
First, nobody knows what was really said. Why haven't we learned that anonymous sources aren't reliable? How many times in the past have anonymous sources proven to be garbage in the end?
But that doesn't stop some people from taking the comments from anonymous sources and running with it. Bulldog was rather passionate in his comments but if you look at everything he said, it will become very clear, very fast that he has an agenda. Bulldog doesn't like Favre right now. He talks about how Favre loves the attention he gets when the retirement topic comes up every year. How does Bulldog know that Favre enjoys that? Doesn't the fact that Bulldog is taking such an overly biased stance on Favre that he dramatically jumps to the point of ripping his leadership abilities and questioning what Favre's comments do to little kids.....doesn't that call into question the legitimacy of Bulldog's comments? We don't even fully know what Favre said yet Bulldog is sure it will hurt little kids. That's just crazy! Bulldog doesn't even respect the context of Favre's comments that we do know Favre made! I see a guy, in Bulldog, who is pissed at #4 and is letting it all out because he thinks he has an issue. It doesn't matter if the issue is real, he just wants to get his shots in and lead as many others to his view as possible. He doesn't need evidence. This backs up what he's thought for a while. That's all the evidence he needs. I can understand him going off the way he is but what's the excuse of many of the rest of you?
On to Ted Thompson...
According to Favre, the only thing standing in the way of the Packers getting Moss was Thompson guaranteeing $3 million in the first year. Favre says he called and offerred to have the $3 million taken out of his contract. IF that's true, than Thompson deserves some heat right now and this is probably the real root of this issue with Favre. Just thinking about this and the best information we have right now.... Favre says he offerred to take the $3 million out of his own deal to pay for Moss. Favre says the deal fell through because Thompson refused to guarantee the $3 million. IF Thompson was willing to deal a pick for Moss and the only thing standing in the way was $$$ AND IF Favre was willing to pay the money himself, out of his own deal, than what excuse does Thompson have for not making the deal? It would appear as if Thompson really did something questionable that goes against making the team better. What risk was present in finishing the deal for Moss IF Favre was fronting the cash? IF Thompson had an offer on the table for Moss than that means that he was prepared to have him on the team so it's no longer an issue of whether Moss would kill the locker room or other questions like that.....IF it all came down to money and Favre was willing to underwrite the deal......why would Thompson shoot that down?
For me, that's the million dollar question. That's what I want to know more about. I want to know if Thompson screwed Favre (and all the fans) over. I want to know if Favre was out there recruiting Moss, with the blessing of management, and being told that the team wanted to do the deal only to watch Thompson literally refuse to do the deal when he had the chance. IF that happened, I want to know why and Packer fans deserve to know why. We spend our money on this team. We faithfully follow this team. IF Thompson had a deal in place for Moss in which Favre was willing to take money out of his contract to get the deal done.....than Thompson owes us an explanation. We need to known if there is truth to the, 'Thompson wants Favre gone' conspiracy theory. It's always been hanging there and now, if this happened the way Favre says it did, than this is a potential bit of evidence that Thompson is actually trying to force an end to the Favre era. I know it's ridiculous but you have to go where the facts take you. WHY would Thompson not pull the trigger on the deal if there was no risk? When you offer a draft pick for a player, you've already decided you want the player on your team. The only thing in the way of the deal being closed was money and Favre, according to his own comments, offerred to be the source of that money. What excuse does Thompson have for not doing the deal and giving the team another legitimate weapon? It doesn't make sense.
On Favre....
IF he was screwed over by Thompson and lied to or if Favre knows something we don't about the way Thompson is going about doing business than I can't fault Favre for criticizing Thompson. People are lining up to rip Favre yet lost in the emotion is the fact that Favre was willing to put his own money on the line in order to make the team better! Packer fans have had the luxary of watching Favre over the past 15 years so we known what he's all about. His personality and moral structure is one of the chief reasons people love Favre. Why would he suddenly turn into a turd? It doesn't make sense. Something is up. Favre saying something is a sign that something larger is going on here. He's NOT a 'me' player. Even in this situation, Favre offerred to give Thompson the money to make the Moss deal work. Isn't that one of the ultimate sacrifices a player can make? Isn't that the ultimate team player? By offerring money to Thompson so that Thompson can improve the team AND by physically picking up the phone and recruiting a player to come to G.B.....isn't that the ultimate help a guy can give the GM?
Something doesn't jive right now and the only thing I know for sure is that I trust Favre. I've watched Favre for well over a decade. From the little bit I've seen from Ted Thompson, he makes me feel like I can't trust him. I know Thompson knows talent. I know Thompson can draft and I know he is doing a great job with the salary cap. I don't know if Thompson is doing everything he can to make this team the best it can be right now. I don't know if the cap room Thompson is creating is being used properly. I think everything he is doing is geared towards the future, at the cost of the past 2 seasons and maybe this season. Creating cap room is only good if you use it to improve the team. I've been patient and a defender of Thompson, still now believing there wasnt' much in free agency this year for Thompson to go after and I did NOT want to see him overpay for some of the leftovers that were out there but if Thompson had a deal in place for Moss and Favre's money to help ease the financial ramifications then Thompson has no excuse. He will have purposely screwed Favre and the team and if I'm Favre.....and IF I believe that my boss lied to me and isn't trying to make the team better......then I'd speak up too. If you thought your boss had lied to you and if you thought, in the world of professional sports, that your boss wasn't trying to make the team better than you'd speak up too. Instead of ripping Favre for comments he may or may not have said I think all of us should be begging reporters to get more information on what really happened so we can find out if our GM is really trying to win.
This is a controversy but not the one people are caught up in. The controversy isn't Favre or even whether he asked for a trade. It's THompson. What is he doing and why is he doing it? What's going on behind the scenes with Thompson? Is he purposely driving Favre away? Did Thompson lie? What were Thompson's motives, if he did? What are the ramifications if Thompson is running the show in a less than ethical manner? Will players steer away from G.B. because of Thompson? Is Thompson really trying to improve this team and give players like Favre the tools to win? This is the controversy. It's not Favre. Get your heads out of your ass long enough to realize that Favre has, and still is, the ultimate team player! In this story he offerred his own money to get the deal done to help the team! He's always been like that. It's why the entire NFL loves the guy and wants to play with him. If something is up between Thompson and Favre then I'd be more prone to question Thompson than I would to question Favre. 15 years of watching the guy buys him some benefit of the doubt, in my mind. I'm not relieving Favre of any criticism, (I said the Walker people have a right to Rip Favre hard right now) but I am willing to give this some time before I start taking hard stances about how Favre is wrong and is hurting little kids. We don't know yet who is right or wrong.
The bottom line is that we need more information and I really hope the right questions are asked. This isn't about Favre being traded. This is about Thompson and what happened. We need to know what happened.Life is a puzzle. Every day you get up and pick up the pieces from the day before.
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You can't keep idiots from being idiots. You can only hope to contain them.
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Idiots DO exist. I've seen them.Comment
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I want to remind everyone that Favre offerring his own money to finalize the deal with Moss is the ultimate sign of being a team player. He was offerring his own money to get a deal done. He was recruiting Moss. He did it for the team. He is part of the team. Yeah, he wants to win. Since when did wanting to win become selfish or indicitive of a player looking out for themself?Originally posted by Fritz
ON the Moss deal, the way I read it, I don't think the Packers had to top N.E.'s offer. I think that, listening to Favre's comments, that Thompson had a window to seal the deal before N.E. took the lead. Favre was very clear that the Packers could've had Moss and that money was the sticking factor. IF Favre said he'd pay the $3 million out of his own contract than Thompson has no excuse for not making the deal. You have to undestand that if an offer was on the table, and it's pretty clear that Thompson did have an offer on the table to trade for Moss, then Thompson had already decided that he was okay with taking Moss on. The final issue was the money and Favre seemingly stepped up to address that.
IF Thompson had all the tools to get Moss at his fingertips and refused to make the deal then he deserves criticism. If he led Favre to believe he was trying to make the deal and then, in the end, Thompson literally chose not to make the deal, then THompson will have earned fair criticism.
Speaking of earning.....Favre earned his playoff appearances while in G.B.. Those that are acting like he owes something to the Packers because he was on good teams are getting a bit liberal with the facts. Favre wasn't handed anything. He earned it. Any success he had is the result of hard work on his part, and the part of his teammates. You can say he's been fortunate to play with teammates like Reggie White but Favre doesn't owe anyone anything for playing on winning teams. On the contrary, the franchise owes Favre a great deal for those teams being winners. Favre was one of the biggest, if not the single biggest, factor in the Packers winning over the past 15 years. YOu can't turn that around now and say Favre should feel lucky he got a chance to win. He earned what he got.Life is a puzzle. Every day you get up and pick up the pieces from the day before.
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You can't keep idiots from being idiots. You can only hope to contain them.
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Idiots DO exist. I've seen them.Comment
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Re: Favre
Originally posted by Patler
Yes, but as history has proven time and time again, finding the next QB will be a very painful process.......Comment
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