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Originally posted by mrbojangles
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Good point. Quite honestly, I would have picked OTHER also, but I didn't want to write up an explanation.
"There's a lot of interest in the draft. It's great. But quite frankly, most of the people that are commenting on it don't know anything about what they are talking about."--Ted Thompson -
Originally posted by HarveyWallbangers
Completely agree, although I'd call myself moderately pessimistic about TT.
I too am confused about Moss; if you are going to show interest, you might as well make it happen for a fourth.
And I'm still completely baffled by the 1st round.
If you can get Cleveland's first round draft pick next year, why in the world would the great rebuilder not take that ?
At Cleveland's slot, they still could have drafted Sydney Rice or Jarrett and have a top 10 pick in the draft next year. TT must have fell in love with Harrell to turn down that deal; that's out of character for him.TERD Buckley over Troy Vincent, Robert Ferguson over Chris Chambers, Kevn King instead of TJ Watt, and now, RICH GANNON, over JIMMY JIMMY JIMMY LEONARD. Thank you FLOWERComment
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I voted Other:Explain
I support the "build through the draft" mantra that has been TT's motife in rebuilding (yes...rebuilding). It's not like he has not tried in FA...remember Lavarr Arrington last year and a couple other spurns (that we now feel lucky on). He also hit on Pickett and Woodson (cannot deny the impact they had on D). We'll see how Manuel turns out in TC.
This year the FA class stunk but there were some stopgap players that maybe could have helped. Would Griffin, Hamlin or Grant helped? And are they bettter than the youngsters we got now?
I do believe he was counting on the Moss trade as his biggest free agent/trade splash. There just has to be more to this story than we are privy too, and some sort of GM "Code of Ethics" he is sticking too we probably never will. TT may have been played and there are all sorts of rumors out there as to what happened and how. He may have errored in not completing the deal before the draft, if he indeed could have.
What actually happened, who knows, but I'm not ready to throw him under the bus yet. Randy Moss signed a 1 year deal, maybe we get a shot at him next year. Maybe he won't be worth it. Maybe he is the one that cornholed TT. At this point it is irrelevent. If it was he who errored, I doubt he would make that same mistake twice. He look wiped and taken aback after the first day. Let's see if he can recover and wheel and deal to get us the help we need (like V. Morency) and get the young guys up to snuff and see where they take us this year.
If the Packers do not progress this year, then it's time for a smackdown, as 5 years to a SB is good, 5 years to even have a winning record is bad.sigpicComment
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Sorry.
I'm on the bandwagon.
TT is a grown up.
He has a plan and sticks to it. He doesn't get a hard on for names, but he does respect talent. He spends money carefully. He rewards our best players and keeps them on the team.
I have begun slipping off the Favre bandwagon.
He is still my favorite player, author of many happy memories. But his off-season act is really growing old.
It's one thing for "fans" dressed up for some kind of green and gold Mardis Gras to boo draft picks and talk stupidly about not signing Free Agents or drafting Bowe or Meacham or whoever Mel Kiper had on his board.
It is another thing to have Brett fire off like that.
Brett will be a great quarterback again if we can get him into training camp without retiring.
But he sure does suck at off-season public relations.[QUOTE=George Cumby] ...every draft (Ted) would pick a solid, dependable, smart, athletically limited linebacker...the guy who isn't doing drugs, going to strip bars, knocking around his girlfriend or making any plays of game changing significance.Comment
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UPDATE: FAVRE & TT TRADING SALVOS
FAVRE. It's shaping up to look like Favre vs. Thompson is going to be an interesting 2007 story. Over the weekend, there was a bunch of new evidence that Favre and Thompson won't be writing nice things on each other's Facebooks walls. Favre had some carefully chosen words on Saturday to a reporter at his golf fundraiser. [Extreme paraphrasing] "Thompson coulda signed Moss and he didn't, but I don't want to make a big deal about it." (You can read the real quote here.) Sure, Brett didn't want to make a big deal out of it. Not according to Fox. Late Sunday, the sports radio shows were lit up talking about this Fox Sports report in which Favre's agent requested a trade from the Packers. And according to Jason Wilde, Thompson did not deny that Favre asked to be traded.
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TOP HAT'S NOTE; TT ISSUES PR ON WEBSITE.
Packers' Moss miss leaves Favre fuming, but did he ask out? By CHRIS JENKINS, AP Sports Writer
The Green Bay Packers left Brett Favre fuming when they didn't pull off a trade for wide receiver Randy Moss during the NFL draft. But was the three-time MVP angry enough to ask his way out of Green Bay? Amid public grousing from Favre about the state of his team over the weekend, a report on the Fox Sports Web site, citing anonymous sources, said Favre's agent called Packers general manager Ted Thompson to request a trade a few days after last month's draft. According to the report, Packers coach Mike McCarthy later called the quarterback and was able to calm his anger, getting Favre to admit that he didn't really want to play elsewhere. In a statement posted on the Packers' Web site, Thompson said he would not address the specifics of the report but understood the frustration Favre vented in interviews over the weekend.
"I think it's natural for a player to be frustrated from time to time -- that's simply being human," Thompson said. "Everyone knows that Brett Favre is all about winning. As an organization, we share that commitment. And we want to win now." Other Packers officials and Favre's agent, James "Bus" Cook, did not return telephone messages from The Associated Press on Sunday. The Packers' mandatory minicamp begins Friday, and it was not clear whether Favre, who had surgery to remove bone spurs from his left ankle in late February, would attend. McCarthy said during the team's rookie orientation last weekend that he expected Favre to be present, even if he wasn't able to practice while he continues to recover from the surgery.
Favre didn't mention anything about wanting a trade in interviews he conducted during his annual charity golf tournament in Tunica, Miss. on Saturday. But Favre did make it clear that he believed the Packers passed on a chance to make "a steal" of a deal for Moss, who instead was traded from Oakland to New England April 29. "He was going to wipe his contract clean and sign for $3 million guaranteed, plus a fourth-round draft pick. That would have been a steal," Favre told the Biloxi (Miss.) Sun-Herald. "But we were not willing to guarantee part of that $3 million. I even had (Cook) call up there and tell them I would give up part of my salary to guarantee that part of the money. Apparently that wasn't enough either."
Favre, who has flirted with retirement during the past several offseasons, told the team in February that he would return for his 17th NFL season. But he now wonders whether the Packers want to move on without him as part of a long-term rebuilding movement, a sentiment he has hinted at in the past. Thompson and McCarthy have consistently said that they want Favre to keep playing.
Favre said he has faith in the team's desire to win, but wonders whether the Packers won't become a contender again until after he retires. Green Bay improved from 4-12 in 2005 to 8-8 last season, but hasn't made any major additions through free agency. "I don't know if I've lost faith, and I think everyone in the organization wants to win," Favre told the paper. "I just don't know if it includes me. If it's going to be five years from now, I'm not going to be here. This is 17 years for me and I want to win."
Thompson said he is optimistic about the team's chances to win right away. The Packers have locked up several of their own key defensive players to long-term deals this offseason, including cornerback Al Harris, linebacker Nick Barnett and defensive lineman Cullen Jenkins. "We feel like we've had a great offseason program -- our guys are getting bigger and stronger -- and we'll improve from within," Thompson said. "We're also excited about the players we've added through the draft and what those players will bring to our team."
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Would You Want Your Team to Trade for Brett Favre?
So Brett Favre wants to be traded. Actually, I doubt he really wants to be traded so much as he just feels frustrated that he wants to go out a winner and doesn't think the Packers' front office is taking the right steps toward that. But it still raises an interesting question: Would you want your team to trade for Favre? Statistically speaking, Favre is still an above average quarterback. But he's not one of the league's elite quarterbacks anymore. By my count, there are five NFL quarterbacks who are unquestionably better than Favre right now: Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Marc Bulger, Carson Palmer and Tom Brady.
Another 10 quarterbacks might not be unquestionably better than Favre right now, but they're at a point when there's no reason their teams would want Favre: Donovan McNabb, Marc Bulger, Philip Rivers, Steve McNair, Ben Roethlisberger, Matt Leinart, Eli Manning, Vince Young, Matt Hasselbeck and Alex Smith.Comment
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UPDATE: OMG THE UNTHINKABLE...
Favre, Packers on shaky ground By Tomlinson
PackerReport.com's Dylan Tomlinson offers his thoughts on how Brett Favre's frustration over the Packers' inability to trade for Randy Moss has doomed his once solid relationship with the team.
Brett Favre may be the most beloved man in Wisconsin, but that doesn't make his relationship with the Green Bay Packers any less dysfunctional. Favre complained to the Biloxi Sun Herald on Saturday about Packers general manager Ted Thompson's inability or unwillingness to pull the trigger on a trade for receiver Randy Moss. Favre's frustration is understandable. He's going to play one, maybe two more seasons and he wants to be playing for a contender. In all likelihood, he won't be with the Packers.
Unless receiver Greg Jennings becomes a superstar during his sophomore season or rookie running back Brandon Jackson is able to have the same kind of rookie season that Joseph Addai had in Indianapolis or Maurice Jones-Drew had in Jacksonville, the Packers are going to be much worse on offense than they were a year ago.
Favre wants to play for a team that will contend during the 2007 season. Based on Thompson's desire to build through the draft rather than trades or free agency he appears to be building a team that will contend in a year or two [REALLY? LAUGHABLE PLAY TO TT], which is when Favre will be spending the football season hunting, golfing and sitting on his tractor in Mississippi. "There are times when I wonder if I'm the odd man out here and they just don't know how to tell me." Favre told the Sun Herald.
Favre is exactly right and that's why this relationship is doomed to end badly. Thompson knows he can't trade or cut Favre. While the Dallas Cowboys cut Troy Aikman, and the San Francisco 49ers traded Joe Montana, that's still not enough precedent for Thompson to get rid of the best player in franchise history. He knows such a move would get him run out of town. Favre could take some of the pressure off Thompson by publicly requesting a trade, but even by doing that, he would be showing that he doesn't like the team's direction and that would likely reflect very poorly on Thompson and McCarthy, and could cost both their jobs.
Right now the most realistic scenario for all parties is that Favre plays for the Packers during the 2007 season. He can break Dan Marino's touchdown record and collect his $11 million salary and then walk off into the Mississippi sunset as Thompson and McCarthy prepare Aaron Rodgers to be the starter for the 2008 season. But that would be too neat and tidy and that's not how Favre operates.
Favre has spent the last six seasons threatening to retire. Favre has spent the last two off-seasons being extremely critical of Thompson because he doesn't want to be held responsible if the Packers have another season similar to 2005, when they went 4-12. Favre will accept the credit if the Packers win, but if they struggle, he wants to be sure Thompson is to blame. There's no way Favre will let Thompson's laissez-faire attitude toward trades and free agency soil his legacy as one of the best quarterbacks in NFL history [AMEN].
Favre has said repeatedly that his dream is to leave the game the same way John Elway did, after winning a Super Bowl. Right now, it's hard to imagine any way Favre could accomplish that, especially not with the Packers. Favre has a Super Bowl title, three MVPs and is likely a few games from becoming the most prolific touchdown passer in NFL history. Apparently, the only thing he can't do is find a way to gracefully walk away from the game.Comment
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UPDATE: BRUTAL PERSPECTIVE
Mike Vandermause column: Thompson has critics lining up
How many more punches can Ted Thompson take? The Green Bay Packers' general manager has been booed by fans and questioned by the media. And now, in the biggest blow of the offseason, he was called out by quarterback Brett Favre. Favre's comments on Saturday were so critical that Thompson felt compelled to issue a response Sunday on the Packers' Web site.
A brutally honest Favre, at his celebrity golf tournament in Mississippi, said he was disappointed the Packers failed to acquire wide receiver Randy Moss, who instead was traded to the New England Patriots. Favre also expressed deep frustration at the Packers' failure to improve the offense. Favre reportedly was so upset about losing out on Moss that two weeks ago he asked the Packers to trade him. While Favre made no mention of that demand Saturday, he lashed out at the plight of the Packers' offense. "Our offense struggled last season," Favre said. "If it were not for our defense, we would not have won eight games. Right now, it's hard to be optimistic."
That's a resounding indictment of Thompson's offseason performance, particularly his failure to add firepower to the offense. Coming from the team leader, those words had to sting. Why else would Thompson have been prompted to defend himself?
But it's important to keep Favre's comments in perspective. It's not as if Thompson is dealing with an all-out mutiny. Favre is a fierce competitor who wants to win, and he wants to win now. He's not a disgruntled player blasting his team because he didn't get his way. Favre called the Packers "a first-class organization," and based on his public comments, appears prepared to do whatever he can to help the team succeed. But there obviously is a difference of opinion between Favre and Thompson about how to accomplish that goal.
Favre wants Thompson to display more urgency. While Thompson methodically has laid a foundation for the future through the draft, he has been reluctant to make bold moves this offseason to address glaring needs. Favre isn't blind. He scans the roster and sees no proven, featured running back. Other than Donald Driver, he sees a collection of untested receivers. He sees a lineup of tight ends with limited ability to stretch the field. Favre wanted an offensive playmaker so badly he said he offered to give up a portion of his paycheck to guarantee Moss' salary in Green Bay.
In fairness to Thompson, he can't make roster decisions based on how Favre or any other player reacts. He must do what he believes is in the best interest of the Packers. But Thompson will have a hard time explaining why acquiring Moss for a fourth-round draft choice and $3 million in guaranteed money — the price the Patriots paid for him — wouldn't have given the Packers the best chance for success. Addressing the team's short-term and long-term needs is a difficult balancing act, and Favre apparently is caught in the middle.
If Thompson is building a team capable of winning a championship in two or three years, what's the point of keeping Favre around? That's what Favre seems to be wondering. If Thompson wants to win a championship in 2007, why wouldn't he make a stronger effort to acquire Moss, or some other offensive playmaker? These are difficult questions, and Favre is not alone in looking for answers.Comment
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Swede, I 100% agree with everything you said.Originally posted by swede"I've got one word for you- Dallas, Texas, Super Bowl"- Jermichael FinleyComment
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UPDATE: HONEST PERSPECTIVE
Just Trade Me By Brandon
It looks like QB Brett Favre was really pissed off when the Packers didn't trade for WR Randy Moss and then he demanded a trade after the draft. According to Jay Glazer at FOX Sports, what happened was that Favre didn't answer his phone for a week so he could calm down and he then straightened it all out Mike McCarthy. The trade request would probably have never gotten out except Favre was very honest with Al Jones, a reporter at the Biloxi Sun Herald.
GM Ted Thompson had to make a response but then he comes out with this garbage. He can't talk about Moss specifically because he is a player on another team. Also, he understandably doesn't want to discuss anything said in confidence between him and Favre. But he says nothing about the key statement made by Favre that "there are times when I wonder if I'm the odd man out here and they just don't know how to tell me." Instead Thompson says he's optimistic, excited, and "we've had a great offseason program." As if all the team needed was a better workout program. This wasn't a response and he avoided the questions.
I still think Thompson wants Favre retired so he build a team with his guys. Jason Cole is the only other writer online that I've read who acknowledges that Thompson might want Favre gone. Tom Silverstein suggested that Favre's comments are directed at his teammates and suggest that Favre "doesn't think the current players are good enough" but I think Silverstein is way off and it's clear that Favre is angry at Thompson and not at his teammates. Someone would lose their job if Moss was on the Packers roster, but Favre is obviously not upset at who is on the roster and is upset that the Packers missed out at acquiring a formerly elite wide receiver. Tom Silverstein goes into some of the nuts and bolts about how the Packers could trade Favre, but I didn't even read that part of his article. I don't care about it. Favre will never win another MVP award, but the team is better with him in 2007 than without him. Favre should stay with the Packers and Thompson still has some questions to answer.Comment
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Re: UPDATE: HONEST PERSPECTIVE
Its fine to say Favre is angry not at the teammates but at Thompson.
But you have to close your eyes and hope if you want to believe that Favre doesn't think his teammates aren't up to snuff.
What else would he be mad about, the training camp schedule? Ticket prices? Color of the carpet in the lockerroom?
Originally posted by TopHatBud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.Comment
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Other: Its football, and its not something that should disrupt anyones life.Originally posted by 3irty1Comment
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Just a reminder: IF the offensive line stays healthy, it ought to be - by dint of having year of experience and an off-season of lifting for the two rookie guards - a much better unit than last year. Jennings, again IF he stays healthy, ought to also be much better. Thus, I do not understand how a writer can so confidently assert that the Packer offense will be worse than last year's edition.
Ahman Green? I hoped TT could re-sign him but Houston paid ridiculous money for him and I am glad TT did not try to top that. This is the same Ahman Green, who, after all, has been frequently lambasted for his early season fumbling problems, and who by all accounts last year was not the same guy he used to be - and now he's a year older. He also missed some playing time last year, too.
Again, I don't share the writer's assertion that Green Bay's offense will be worse this year. I think it will be better, if the team stays healthy.
As for Favre's comments about "if it wasn't for the defense..." - well, isn't that what a good defense does? Help you win? How can you discount that?"The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."
KYPackComment
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Brohm, Swede - nice posts. I agree fully with the comments. When I see logical debates for both sides over here, I always head back over to the JSO for a dose of the Jerry Springer forum for the drama and grade school flaming that goes on over there. Then come back to here and wonder how I got by without this site.60% of the time it works every time.Comment
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UPDATE: NATIONAL SPORTS WRITER VIEW
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18646038/ by a freelance writer MV
Indecisive Pack should’ve traded Favre by now. QB right to be peeved by his own team's lack of direction.
I often wonder what goes on inside the war room of an NFL team during the annual draft. I’m sure I can guess: Lots of hushed but frantic chatter, shuffling of index cards, rustling of paper, shoving aside of pizza boxes, and the TV drone of the ESPN crew. I get all that. What I don’t understand is why it takes teams so long between picks. Surely a team has done so much homework up to that point that, considering which players had been selected up to that point and which ones are left, the choice at a particular pick should be a fairly simple matter. But I guess what I wonder most about is what the Green Bay Packers do on draft day. They must be quite a sight. I’d love to be a fly on the wall in their war room, although the exchanges would probably be fairly monotonous: “What do you think?” followed by “I don’t know. What do you think?”
I bet the only reason the Packers make any decisions at all — and I’m talking not just about the draft but free agency, parking, the brand of bratwurst for the annual picnic, the team’s colors (they’re the same every year, but I’m sure club executives are still unsure) and whether to go with boxers or briefs — is because they’re part of a 32-team collective and the other organizations lean on them to go ahead and choose already.
I bring this up because Brett Favre reportedly has asked the Packers to trade him, which is fascinating because I believe the primary reason he wants to be traded is because the Packers have failed to trade him. I know what you’re saying: “Huh?” But follow closely. The Packers are wimps. They’re terrified of Brett Favre. Each year Favre’s future becomes a huge news story, much bigger than it warrants. The Packers sit around on pins and needles waiting for Favre to tell them which direction the franchise will go: With him, or without him. They have to wait for Favre to tell them that because they can’t decide for themselves. They’re frightened that if they got rid of Favre, fan backlash would be fierce enough to require Red Cross intervention. In fact, Favre has become not just a future Hall of Fame quarterback, but a dictator in the most literal sense, because he is dictating to the people he rules over (the Green Bay Packers) what they will and will not do.
But now a report on the Fox Sports web site suggests he asked for a trade after the draft because he took a look at the team in its present form, he realizes that it stinks, he understands that the main reason it stinks is because it’s petrified to make a major move and lacks the guts to do something like trade Brett Favre, and so he wants out. If they had simply traded him a couple seasons ago rather than sit and do nothing, he wouldn’t have to ask for a trade now. See? It’s simple.
The crux is this: Favre is frustrated because he is the front man for a franchise that is going nowhere, and he’s tired of that role. He asked for a trade now because the New England Patriots pulled the trigger and acquired Randy Moss, a wide receiver to which Favre longed to throw. Because he was so upset that Moss went elsewhere, he decided the Packers were going nowhere. That’s why he reportedly asked for a trade. But the Moss thing was just the final, high-profile straw. Favre’s underlying dissatisfaction centers on the Packers’ inertia. And there is no better example of that than the team’s indecision on trading Favre....
[b]CONTINUED: Favre sees teams improving, but not Packers[/b
Favre will be 38 in October, he will be entering his 17th season and he certainly has looked at the NFL world around him with the eyes of a man whose time in the game is rapidly expiring. The six playoff teams in the NFC last season — Philadelphia, Dallas, New York Giants, Chicago, New Orleans and Seattle — arguably should be in contention next season as well. In addition, teams like Carolina, Atlanta, Tampa Bay, San Francisco and Arizona all have a shot at competing for a playoff berth. Over in the AFC, there is even renewed optimism at Raiders’ camp. The Raiders, for Pete’s sake! They were atrocious last season, but there’s talk they could conceivably double their victory total in 2007. That would be four wins, but hey, it’s an improvement.
Favre sees teams taking steps to get better while he sees his Packers doing zilch. Moss is indeed a head case and, if the Packers struggled at some point in the season, Randy is not the type of teammate to pull a Knute Rockne and rally the fellows to follow his inspirational lead. But it was worth the risk. In the right environment, Moss could still be a superstar. Obviously the Patriots felt that way or they wouldn’t have taken on a contract that calls for Moss to receive about $21 million in base salary over the next two seasons. Favre told the Biloxi (Miss.) Sun-Herald that Moss was willing to “wipe his contract clean” and sign for $3 million guaranteed, but that the Packers were not willing to go for it. Favre even said he was willing to guarantee that portion of the contract out of his own money. Still no deal. But again, it isn’t just Randy Moss. The Packers have done little to improve other than lock up some of their key defensive players to contracts. It’s foolish to go out and spend money like Daniel Snyder, but it’s equally boneheaded to stand pat when standing pat means settling for mediocrity. This will all blow over like yesterday’s news. The Packers begin their mandatory minicamp on Friday, and Favre may or may not be there, since he is recovering from surgery in February to remove bone spurs from his left ankle. If he shows, he’ll make nice and say the trade demand was taken out of context or overblown. If he doesn’t show, the team will spin it to suggest all is well and that he is busy rehabbing. Yet behind the scenes, Brett Favre would be wise to demand that the team show some gumption by trading Brett Favre. That’s the kind of decisiveness he’s been waiting to see.Comment
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I was just thinking, didn't Favre call the 2006 Packers the most talented team he'd ever been on?Comment
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