Michael Vick

[cpk1994]

I don't admit that either theory is plausible. And while I know only the basics of Stewart's charge, I do remember the game.

And Vick made the Packer defense look stupid. And it wasn't the officiating.

On the other hand, the Packer O was so decimated by injuries that, had they been healthy, it would have been a much closer game.

OK now I have to rip into you for giving that piece of crap any credit.

If the O had anyone left and that punt that hit the ATL player in the back of the head been challenged I think it would have been a Pack W. Vick wasnt unstoppable that day, he just got alot of chances cuz the offense couldnt do anything due to it being down to just Favre and a rookie javon "traitor" walker.

That punt that wasn't challanged was my biggest complaint about Sherman. Not only didn't he challenge it, instead of immediately taking blame for it he tried to whine and blame the officials for it. ONly after the head official fired back and said Sherman was informed he could challenge it did SHerman finally admit he made a mistake - and that was 4 days later. I wanted Sherman fired from that day on.

[mraynrand]

The boldfaced line above reflects my major memory of that game. The defense looked utterly lost and - dare I say it - defenseless. And after Driver got hurt - again - in that game, the Packers were taking volunteers from the stands to play wide receiver, I think.

Ugliness.

With the punt/block TD, that leave the D responsible for 20 points, at leat 7 of which were given up on a very short field.

The Packers were without Green, Davenport, Glenn, Clifton, Tauscher, Flanagan (effectively lost at center, since he moved to LT, leaving the hapless Winters at C), Driver, Johnson, Sharper. There may be more guys that I've forgotten. I think Reynolds was injured as well (not a big loss). Favre was still playing on a bum knee, etc.

Anyone who thinks that the Packers were a better team than Atlanta at the time of that wildcard game, is out of their tree.

[Freak Out]

The boldfaced line above reflects my major memory of that game. The defense looked utterly lost and - dare I say it - defenseless. And after Driver got hurt - again - in that game, the Packers were taking volunteers from the stands to play wide receiver, I think.

Ugliness.

With the punt/block TD, that leave the D responsible for 20 points, at leat 7 of which were given up on a very short field.

The Packers were without Green, Davenport, Glenn, Clifton, Tauscher, Flanagan (effectively lost at center, since he moved to LT, leaving the hapless Winters at C), Driver, Johnson, Sharper. There may be more guys that I've forgotten. I think Reynolds was injured as well (not a big loss). Favre was still playing on a bum knee, etc.

Anyone who thinks that the Packers were a better team than Atlanta at the time of that wildcard game, is out of their tree.

That ATL game is just best left to die......so many things went wrong. I will never forget KGB letting Vick go about 20 yards behind the line of scrimmage on 3rd and long.

[GrnBay007]

The whole idea of dog fights is so sick! I really don't get it. Is it the gambling or the brutality of it all that interests people? I mean, there are so many other avenues with which to gamble, it has to be the violence/blood/brutality these sicko's crave. Has anyone ever seen one? Why do people do this?

[woodbuck27]

Favre could end up in Atlanta yet! (Excuse me while I run for cover!)

Be very careful of what you might be wishing for.

[GrnBay007]

Vick's Name First Came Up Following a Texas Murder
Posted Jun 10th 2007 1:10PM by Dan Benton
Filed under: Falcons, NFL Gossip, NFL Rumors, Atlanta, NFL Police Blotter

There has been so much going on surrounding Michael Vick and the alleged dog fighting allegations that the whole story is just jumbled at this point. With new information coming out daily, no one has had a chance to really grasp the significance of what's going on or how it even began.

It was assumed that Vick's alleged connections to the underground dog fighting world began when police raided his Virginia house looking for drugs and discovered nearly 70 neglected canines. Apparently that's not the case at all and feds had heard about Vick's connection to dog fighting long before that.

Back in August of last year, the murder of Thomas Weigner ended up opening a door to the dog fighting world and Michael Vick's name promptly came up.


"Ohhhh, yes," said Liberty County sheriff's Capt. Chip Fairchild. "When we were in Dayton, they mentioned it there. In Atlanta and Pittsburgh, too. They all knew about Michael Vick being into it and sinking big dollars into it. We kept hearing that over and over. That wasn't a trail we needed to go down, because there was no indication that he had ever been here or knew our guy (Weigner). But our guy certainly knew people who knew Michael Vick."

As each day passes, Vick's connection and association with this brutal world get deeper and more sophisticated. There is no telling how bad it's going to look a year or so from now. Maybe by this time next year we'll be laughing about it, wondering how police could get it so wrong. Or perhaps we'll be looking back on it wondering how the dog fighting kingpin got away with it for so long.

[MJZiggy]

So what's the alleged connection between Vick and this murder? Are they suggesting he had something to do with it? If the murder happened last August and Vick had some sort of connection to it, why is it only now that the story is coming out? And were the canines neglected or not, because I've read other stories that say they were not neglected; that a fighting dog is too valuable to neglect it and weaken its chances in the pit. And if there was no indication that he was ever in Liberty County or knew the murder victim, then what is the point of posting an article with the word "murder" in the headline?

I think I'm done now.

[GrnBay007]

I didn't find the article confusing at all.

Perhaps you should try reading it.

[packinpatland]

Vick's Name First Came Up Following a Texas Murder
Posted Jun 10th 2007 1:10PM by Dan Benton
Filed under: Falcons, NFL Gossip, NFL Rumors, Atlanta, NFL Police Blotter

There has been so much going on surrounding Michael Vick and the alleged dog fighting allegations that the whole story is just jumbled at this point. With new information coming out daily, no one has had a chance to really grasp the significance of what's going on or how it even began.

It was assumed that Vick's alleged connections to the underground dog fighting world began when police raided his Virginia house looking for drugs and discovered nearly 70 neglected canines. Apparently that's not the case at all and feds had heard about Vick's connection to dog fighting long before that.
Back in August of last year, the murder of Thomas Weigner ended up opening a door to the dog fighting world and Michael Vick's name promptly came up.

"Ohhhh, yes," said Liberty County sheriff's Capt. Chip Fairchild. "When we were in Dayton, they mentioned it there. In Atlanta and Pittsburgh, too. They all knew about Michael Vick being into it and sinking big dollars into it. We kept hearing that over and over. That wasn't a trail we needed to go down, because there was no indication that he had ever been here or knew our guy (Weigner). But our guy certainly knew people who knew Michael Vick."

As each day passes, Vick's connection and association with this brutal world get deeper and more sophisticated. There is no telling how bad it's going to look a year or so from now. Maybe by this time next year we'll be laughing about it, wondering how police could get it so wrong. Or perhaps we'll be looking back on it wondering how the dog fighting kingpin got away with it for so long.

***********


I found this whole thing confusing. Who wrote it?

[Merlin]

It isn't written very well but the inferences are there. Vick is a piece of shit, always has been always will. The media talks about Favre and all of the retirement crap. Here their golden boy is in deep shit with the law and they will play it out like we should feel sorry for him and that he is being persecuted.

[pbmax]

It doesn't seem to be that confusing. Michael Vick's postion, publicly, has been that he let family and friends handle the Virginia property and never or rarely visited. And he isn't involved in any dog fighting there, or anywhere else.

On its face, that claim seems far fetched. While there was a member of this board who opined that plenty of millionaires buy estates that they never set foot in again, it seems illogical and unlikely that you would turn over the property to people who you don't know intimately or keep an eye on. So Vick has positioned himself as completely divorced from the events in Virginia. From the beginning, however, there have been reports, rumors and innuendo that Vick was BOTH present in Virginia regularly and was involved in dog-fighting.

So a reporter is looking for confirmation one way or another. You can either convince the sherrif or FBI to include you in the investigation in Virginia OR you can tie Vick to dog fighting from sources outside the Viginia investigation. The latter is easier and probably more fertile in many cases.

The reporter looks for people with direct experience with the world of dog fighting. That led on ESPN reporter to that source who last week said he knew that Vick regularly visted fights and bet large sums of money. Now, he is just s guy, anonymous so far, who is also involved in dog fighting. So he's not enough. He may have an axe to grind or a deal to make. Or a book to write.

Another source is law enforcement who have picked up, investigated or dealt with people in dog fighting. Two advantages here: law enforcement usually more trustworthy than dog-fighting participant, and much of the material of their involvement is a matter of public record. This gives us the Liberty County Sheriff who says three things: 1) He investigated a murder from August last year, 2) During the investigation, they found themselves dealing with people and events involved with dog-fighting., even though they were investigating a murder 3) Vick's name came up, and his name came up in three separate cities from, presumably, multiple sources.

So police, during questioning of people who were at events or knew key participants, were taking names that they may want to talk to about the murder. On that list, three separate times, is Vick. They don't wish to talk to Vick, because while he is involved in the dog fighting world, he apparently has no connection to the murder.

This is not evidence that will win you a conviction in Virginia. However, it damages the credibility of Vick's claim that he isn't involved in dog fighting. Eventually, we may realize that all these stories are based upon the same urban legend, like the Keyser Soze of the dog fighting world. But if the people that investigators were talking to had accounts that were additonal events, rather than a retelling of the same story, then Vick is likely lying.

Nothing is proven, much suspected. But this is how you need to proceed to find out details if the primary participants don't want to talk. This report, while the last paragraph is a bit breathless, is just one piece of a puzzle.

[MJZiggy]

PB, maybe you should have written the article. I did not find it confusing at all. I was merely pointing out that the reporter who did write the piece threw out a LOT of innuendo (specifically the headline that MUST include the word "murder," right?). It also includes the little tidbit about neglected dogs. He's being sensationalist. Especially since it wasn't until the middle of paragraph 4 that he actually writes that Vick had nothing to do with the murder in the headline. I would think that would be an important enough tidbit to include in the opening of the story. Or maybe I hold these people to too lofty of expectations.

[packinpatland]

"Or maybe I hold these people to too lofty of expectations."


Can't.

[PackerBlues]

How many people around the area of that property have the money to take the kind of bets that Vick has been "seen" making? What kind of people have that kind of money to throw around? The fact that Vick is not in jail awaiting trial right now means one of two things to me.

1) The Local District Attorney is biding his time, trying to make sure he has more than enough evidence to get a conviction. He is following up leads, and looking for credible witnesses, and anything solid that cannot be called speculation.

2) Its just as likely that members of the local government attended the dog fights and took part in the betting, and at this very moment, bribes are being offered, and pockets are being lined. If allegations of Vicks dog fights and betting were heard in three different cities, that just adds that many more people wanting to cover their asses.

Personally, I dont see anything coming out of this unless the federal government is brought in. I believe that there wouldl be bigger names than Vicks brought up if they ever got serious about this "investigation".

I had been stationed in Norfolk Virginia back in 1994 when I had first joined the Navy. The whole dog fighting thing does not suprise me at all. I travelled all over that area in the time that I was stationed there, and the people to me, kind of seemed to be a little bit behind the rest of the country in a lot of ways. I remember going into a bar one night with a good friend of mine who happened to be black. Even though their were at least 10 guys sitting at the bar drinking, the bar tender told us that they were closed and that we had to leave. It was far from bar time, They simply did not want to serve a black man. I have a god awefull temper, but my friend said not to worry about it and we were about to just leave, but as we were walking out, one of the guys at the bar mumbled something about "Niggers". At that time, at 6' tall and 235 lb's, I had no problem getting that racist piece of shit to buy my friend a drink before we walked out. If my friend had not been the "voice of reason" that night, I was in the process of getting every last guy in that bar to buy him a drink, ......or else, lol. I was very disturbed by how that part of the country just seemed to be stuck in the past. So, no.......the whole dog fighting thing does not suprise me.

[packinpatland]

I had been stationed in Norfolk Virginia back in 1994 when I had first joined the Navy. The whole dog fighting thing does not suprise me at all. I travelled all over that area in the time that I was stationed there, and the people to me, kind of seemed to be a little bit behind the rest of the country in a lot of ways. I remember going into a bar one night with a good friend of mine who happened to be black. Even though their were at least 10 guys sitting at the bar drinking, the bar tender told us that they were closed and that we had to leave. It was far from bar time, They simply did not want to serve a black man. I have a god awefull temper, but my friend said not to worry about it and we were about to just leave, but as we were walking out, one of the guys at the bar mumbled something about "Niggers". At that time, at 6' tall and 235 lb's, I had no problem getting that racist piece of shit to buy my friend a drink before we walked out. If my friend had not been the "voice of reason" that night, I was in the process of getting every last guy in that bar to buy him a drink, ......or else, lol. I was very disturbed by how that part of the country just seemed to be stuck in the past. So, no.......the whole dog fighting thing does not suprise me.



I do hope things have changed for the better in the last 13 years.