MINICAMP notes...

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't necessarily agree. I don't see a lot of upside on Ruvell. I think he is what he is. He's just too slow to ever be anything more than a subpackage receiver.

[retailguy]

I don't necessarily agree. I don't see a lot of upside on Ruvell. I think he is what he is. He's just too slow to ever be anything more than a subpackage receiver.

The same thing could be said for a bunch of guys on this roster. In fact, the same type of stuff was said about Mark Tauscher, and Donald Driver when he came out of college.

The reality of it is this: "How badly does Ruvell Martin want it?" If he wants it as bad as Donald Driver wanted it, he'll be ok. If he doesn't, he'll be the next Charles Lee.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Coach McCarthy said Brady Poppinga is one of the most improved players on the defense.

Encouraging. It would be great if Poppinga became a good LB. Our LB group would really stack up well against most in the league.

From Packers.com:

(How far has Hawk advanced and how good is that group as a whole?)
McCarthy: I think AJ Hawk is a primetime player in the National Football League, and I think that will be proven as he moves forward. He's very talented, a linebacker that can play in any scheme. I think that speaks for itself. You can see his comfort in our scheme, and he is definitely a run-and-hit explosive type player and does a good job in the passing game. I think Nick Barnett is a frontline player too and Brady Poppinga is probably the most improved of the whole group. And the young guys behind them - I think that group has a lot of competition in the backup area, but those first three I've been very impressed with.

[HarveyWallbangers]

And from what HW has been saying Carlton Brewster tore up NFL Europe

Brewster has fallen off the last few weeks. He had 2 catches for 68 yards this week, and he didn't do much last week. He's still leading the league in receptions and receiving yards, but not by much.

[retailguy]

And from what HW has been saying Carlton Brewster tore up NFL Europe

Brewster has fallen off the last few weeks. He had 2 catches for 68 yards this week, and he didn't do much last week. He's still leading the league in receptions and receiving yards, but not by much.

2 catches for 68 yards is falling off?

Hell that's a good season for Ferguson!.

[RashanGary]

Check out Morency...He's not Ahman Green but it looks like he might have bridged the gap by about 50% physically.

I wonder if Green hooked him up with his HGH dealer??

[Brando19]

He's got some big ass arms...not as big as Ahman's, but they may be able to pop some heads.

[motife]

Check out Morency...He's not Ahman Green but it looks like he might have bridged the gap by about 50% physically.

I wonder if Green hooked him up with his HGH dealer??

Morency said that whevever he's played, he's averaged close to 4.5 per carry regardless of his number of carries. That he averaged that at Oklahoma State when he played with Tatum Bell (now with Detroit, just traded from Denver this year.)

Morency was drafted early in the 3rd round by Houston, 73rd overall.

If the mojo kicks in, it better be this year. He's 27 already.

His biggest challenge is overcoming his tendency to injury.

(HGH is very expensive, can only be taken by injection, and is next to impossible to trace, since it naturally occurs in the blood. I know because I was just consided for such (anti-aging) therapy, but they said my HGH was naturally high already.)

[the_idle_threat]

Count me as one who believes Carlyle Holiday has a good shot to overtake Ruvell Martin for the #3 spot.

Holiday is very big and physical at 6'2'' and 220 pounds. I searched for a long time this morning to find a 40 time on him as an indication of his athleticism, and although I did find multiple sources, they were all pretty dated and none were very reliable. There were no combine or pro-day workout reports that I could find. In any case the sources I found stated as fast as 4.4: (see http://www.usatoday.com/sports/footb...c/maxcol02.htm); to "4.4's" (see http://www.defrancostraining.com/ask...e_05-02-18.htm scroll about 2/3 down the page); to 4.55 estimated (see http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW.../2004/ppnd.htm scroll about halfway down the page). In any case, these numbers---if in the right ballpark--indicate that Holiday is plenty fast enough to be more than just a camp body. He would be about as fast as Jennings or James Jones.

From what I did find on him, Holiday started at quarterback for at least a couple of seasons at Notre Dame before losing the job to Brady Quinn and converting to WR in his senior season. He was lauded for his athleticism, being more effective as a "running quarterback" for an option-style attack as opposed to a pocket thrower in a pro-style offense.

Holiday has been behind the curve a bit at WR given that he hasn't played the position as long as most of his competition, but it's a transition that can be made effectively (see Hines Ward), and his experience as a quarterback might help him be a more aware and effective player. I'm pulling for him.

Martin is a great story and all, but I put him in the same category as Noah Herron. He's a try-hard guy who doesn't have enough athleticism to be anything better than a #3 guy. I find it telling that Martin failed to stick with the receiver-poor Chargers and spent some time out of football, whereas Holiday actually made the team with receiver-rich Arizona for a while, and was later stashed on the practice squad where we found him.

I'd be very interested to hear ND72's and Patler's opinions of Holiday, considering that they are longtime observers of N.D. football.

[Bretsky]

Count me as one who believes Carlyle Holiday has a good shot to overtake Ruvell Martin for the #3 spot.

Holiday is very big and physical at 6'2'' and 220 pounds. I searched for a long time this morning to find a 40 time on him as an indication of his athleticism, and although I did find multiple sources, they were all pretty dated and none were very reliable. There were no combine or pro-day workout reports that I could find. In any case the sources I found stated as fast as 4.4: (see http://www.usatoday.com/sports/footb...c/maxcol02.htm); to "4.4's" (see http://www.defrancostraining.com/ask...e_05-02-18.htm scroll about 2/3 down the page); to 4.55 estimated (see http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW.../2004/ppnd.htm scroll about halfway down the page). In any case, these numbers---if in the right ballpark--indicate that Holiday is plenty fast enough to be more than just a camp body. He would be about as fast as Jennings or James Jones.

From what I did find on him, Holiday started at quarterback for at least a couple of seasons at Notre Dame before losing the job to Brady Quinn and converting to WR in his senior season. He was lauded for his athleticism, being more effective as a "running quarterback" for an option-style attack as opposed to a pocket thrower in a pro-style offense.

Holiday has been behind the curve a bit at WR given that he hasn't played the position as long as most of his competition, but it's a transition that can be made effectively (see Hines Ward), and his experience as a quarterback might help him be a more aware and effective player. I'm pulling for him.

Martin is a great story and all, but I put him in the same category as Noah Herron. He's a try-hard guy who doesn't have enough athleticism to be anything better than a #3 guy. I find it telling that Martin failed to stick with the receiver-poor Chargers, whereas Holiday actually made the team with receiver-rich Arizona for a while, and was later stashed on the practice squad.

I'd be very interested to hear ND72's and Patler's opinions of Holiday, considering that they are longtime observers of N.D. football.

Completely agree; I think I see more upside with Hollyday than Martin.

[Bretsky]

And from what HW has been saying Carlton Brewster tore up NFL Europe

Brewster has fallen off the last few weeks. He had 2 catches for 68 yards this week, and he didn't do much last week. He's still leading the league in receptions and receiving yards, but not by much.

2 catches for 68 yards is falling off?

Hell that's a good season for Ferguson!.

[packers11]

sunday photos : http://www.packersnews.com/apps/pbcs...5200809&Ref=PH

[the_idle_threat]

sunday photos : http://www.packersnews.com/apps/pbcs...5200809&Ref=PH

Thanks!

[packrulz]

Posted May 21, 2007

The Packers by position: Critical corner job up for grabs

By Pete Dougherty
pdougher@greenbaypressgazette.com

The one serious need the Green Bay Packers didn't address in last month's NFL draft was at cornerback, where they're looking to upgrade their nickel and dime positions.


Considering NFL defenses are in nickel or dime defenses for about half the snaps of most games, the No. 3 cornerback is a critical, near-starter's role. The Packers ranked No. 17 in the league in pass defense last season and need a young cornerback or two who not only will provide quality for the nickel and dime roles, but also possibly take over for Al Harris and Charles Woodson in the starting lineup a couple years down the road.


Last year, Patrick Dendy ended up with the nickel job by default after Ahmad Carroll bombed. This year, the Packers' best chance for an upgrade is second-year pro Will Blackmon, who missed all but four games last season because of foot and rib injuries. He worked as the nickel back with the No. 1 defense at minicamp.


Dendy worked behind him, and the Packers also signed former New York Giants backup Frank Walker as a free agent this offseason to vie for the No. 3 job. Second-year pro Jarrett Bush also has an outside shot.


The important job is wide open and a possible liability if players don't emerge.


"The young guys, there's excellent competition there," coach Mike McCarthy said at the conclusion of minicamp Sunday. "You just go all the way down the line. I'm very happy with the progress (Jarrett) Bush has made, Blackmon. I think Patrick Dendy has had an excellent weekend."


Below is a position-by-position look at the Packers' roster after the mandatory minicamp. Though they could add a couple of players before training camp, the Packers have made the bulk of their offseason personnel moves, and the coaching and scouting staffs got their first look at the team as a whole in this minicamp.


Defensive backs

Blackmon, who played both receiver and cornerback at Boston College, is the most physically gifted of the backup cornerbacks, but wasn't healthy enough last year to show whether he has the mental makeup for the position. He and Dendy worked with the No. 1 defense with Woodson and Harris not practicing Saturday afternoon and Sunday morning.


The Packers think Dendy has benefited from their offseason program as much as anyone in the secondary. Walker, a fifth-year pro, showed ability to break on the ball and knocked down a couple of passes Sunday, but is just getting familiar with the defense.


At safety, Marquand Manuel is moving a little better than last year — a badly pulled groin sidelined him all last offseason. However, the team has to hope one of its young prospects is good enough to beat him out for the starting job opposite Nick Collins.


A darkhorse could be second-year pro Atari Bigby, who showed good speed and range in coverage during minicamp. He's also a hard hitter who spent nine games on the practice squad last year, then was a core special-teams player until a thumb injury sidelined him.


The Packers drafted Aaron Rouse in the third round this year as immediate competition for Manuel. Rouse didn't jump out at minicamp, but is a big presence (6-foot-4, 223 pounds) and did nothing to suggest he won't be in the running. Third-year pro Marviel Underwood, another strong candidate, is coming back from knee-reconstruction surgery and won't practice until minicamp.


Linebackers

A.J. Hawk is a likely standout on defense in his second season — he made one of the best defensive plays in minicamp on a deep drop and interception of a Brett Favre pass in a red-zone drill. He and middle linebacker Nick Barnett are the heart of the defense.


Starting strong-side linebacker Brady Poppinga has a little better lateral movement almost 1½ years removed from knee-reconstruction surgery. Abdul Hodge, a third-round pick last year, didn't practice because he's recovering from a knee injury. He faces an uphill battle to play well enough at middle linebacker to force a linebacker shuffle and bounce Poppinga from the starting lineup.


Undrafted rookie Rory Johnson has speed and a shot at making the final roster, as does first-year pro Spencer Havner, who spent last season on the practice squad and made noticeable gains in the offseason workout program.


Defensive line

First-round pick Justin Harrell didn't participate in minicamp because he's recovering from a torn biceps that required surgery last year. The Packers say they are just being cautious with his return. Regardless, he's a decent bet to beat out Corey Williams for a starting defensive tackle job.


Defensive tackle Ryan Pickett appeared overweight — he said he was in the 340-pound range, but he expects to play at around 320 this season after playing at about 325 in 2006.


With the return of four starters (Pickett, Cullen Jenkins, Aaron Kampman and Williams), plus ends Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila and Michael Montgomery and tackles Colin Cole and Johnny Jolly, it will be difficult for any newcomers aside from Harrell to win a roster spot. Undrafted rookie Larry Birdine (6-4, 265) of Oklahoma is one of those long shots, but showed some outside pass-rush ability in one-on-one drills.


Receivers

The search is on for a quality No. 3 receiver behind starters Donald Driver and Greg Jennings.


Third-round pick James Jones worked in that role in this minicamp, and though he dropped two balls in 11-on-11 drills Saturday, showed the ability to extend his hands and snatch all catches rather than letting the ball come to him. He is more polished than fifth-round pick David Clowney. The question for Jones is whether he's quick enough off the line and out of breaks to get open consistently.


Robert Ferguson didn't practice because he isn't recovered from last season's mid-foot injury and could face a tough battle to make the roster in his seventh season. But the Packers aren't counting him out for the No. 3 job because he's worked hard this offseason — his weight is up to 220 pounds — and is playing for his career.


Some in the organization like Ruvell Martin as the No. 3 receiver because of his size (6-4), hands and strength. He made one particularly difficult over-the-shoulder catch on a deep ball along the sidelines in minicamp, but lacks explosion and quickness.


If Shaun Bodiford wins a roster spot as the punt returner, and with Driver and Jennings as starters, there could be only three roster spots available for Jones, Clowney, Ferguson, Martin and Carlyle Holiday. Holiday, a converted college quarterback, is in the running because of his size (6-2, 217) and strength going over the middle.


Tight ends

The Packers sent Bubba Franks a strong message by working Donald Lee and sometimes Tory Humphrey with the No. 1 offense. No tight end distinguished himself, though — Zac Alcorn missed all but one practice because of a bruised knee and seventh-round pick Clark Harris had a couple of bad drops. Lee made at least one catch downfield in a blitz period. It looks like he and perhaps Humphrey will get long looks as possible starters ahead of Franks, who had a bad year in '06 and doesn't run well.


Offensive line

Second-year pros Daryn Colledge (left guard) and Tony Moll (right tackle) said they made substantial strength gains this offseason. Moll most likely will work as a backup at both tackles in training camp. Jason Spitz, the starting right guard and a second-year pro, injured his calf Friday and didn't practice thereafter.


Fourth-round pick Allen Barbre should get time to develop as a left guard and tackle — he'll work mainly at guard this offseason — but fits the mold of a mobile linemen for the zone-blocking scheme.


"I like his quickness, I like his athleticism," said offensive coordinator Joe Philbin. "He seems like a very good prospect."


Right tackle Kevin Barry, who didn't practice while recovering from quadriceps-tendon surgery from last offseason, could have a tough time making the roster if players such as Junius Coston and tackle Josh Bourke make major gains. Though Coston is a third-year pro, he's only 23 and is younger than all three linemen drafted last year.


Running backs

The Packers haven't seen second-round pick Brandon Jackson in a full-team setting, because as an invitee to an NFL and players association event, he was prohibited from participating in minicamp. Starter Vernand Morency added about 10 pounds of lean muscle mass from last season, to 220 pounds, though he might have trouble holding most of that weight through training camp.


Undrafted rookie Corey White might have a shot at making the team as a backup halfback-fullback. At 239 pounds, he's big and appeared to catch the ball with ease on a couple of downfield throws. He took snaps at halfback on Sunday.


Third-year pro Brandon Miree caught the ball well at fullback and is the likely starter.


Quarterback

Backup Aaron Rodgers didn't take part in team drills, but looked sharp for the most part in 7-on-7 drills, where he demonstrated a quick delivery and consistently put zip on the ball. With Brett Favre also held out of team drills, Ingle Martin took most of the snaps with the No. 1 offense. He had a bad practice Friday, but was better, though inconsistent, with reads and accuracy the rest of the weekend. He made two sharp throws on hot reads to Lee and Driver during blitz drills Sunday.


Undrafted rookie Jerry Babb was better than at rookie camp but appeared to be swimming. Paul Thompson, an undrafted rookie from Oklahoma, showed athleticism but has an elongated throwing delivery.


Special teams

The Packers didn't do any placekicking or punting in minicamp, so the showdown at kicker between returnee Dave Rayner and sixth-round draft pick Mason Crosby probably won't heat up until training camp.

[BallHawk]

Thanks for posting that, Rulz. All of it is encouraging infromation except the Ryan Pickett part. The Packers cannot afford him to turn into another Cletius Hunt.

I really think Brandon Miree can be a solid starting FB. I also think Ruvell Martin will get the #3 WR. Lastly, I think Rouse will win the opposite starting safety job.