OT : Patriots corner Samuel plans to sit until Week 10

[esoxx]

Re: OT : Patriots corner Samuel plans to sit until Week 10

They are, but what Harrison said is nowhere near what Favre said. Favre came out and said Walker should honor his contract. Harrison didn't even come close to that. Harrison is not telling Samuel what to do.

Were you also upset with Favre for calling out Sterling Sharpe when he threatened not to play the opener of the '94 season? He basically said he signed a contract and should play.

[MadtownPacker]

Re: OT : Patriots corner Samuel plans to sit until Week 10

They are, but what Harrison said is nowhere near what Favre said. Favre came out and said Walker should honor his contract. Harrison didn't even come close to that. Harrison is not telling Samuel what to do.

But what Samuel is doing is nowhere near what walker did either.

walker had a few years to go under his contract, Samuel fell to the Franchise Tag and wants a longer deal. If walker had stayed healthy and been in his last year I am positive TT would have showed him the money. Samuel has no security in front of him, walker did and got paid for 2005. Samuel has a legit complaint like Briggs IMO.

Favre said what he said and by doing so aligned himself with the Packers organization. Harrison basically did the same by saying it was all business and they where going on with or without him. I don't think either should get roasted for their comments. I think the media should get roasted.

[KYPack]

Him and Bailey are the best two corners in the game, is all.

Samuel? Not in my book. The guy tripled his career interception total this year... playing for a contract. He's overrated. He has talent all around him--especially his DL. Makes his job easy. Don't get me wrong, he's solid. However, a lot of average corners have had a year with a lot of interceptions (see Walt Harris in 2006, Deltha O'Neal and Chris Gamble in 2005, Tory James in 2004, Marcus Coleman in 2003, etc.). It's good that they made plays that year, but it still doesn't mean I think they are great. Most of them just got thrown on a lot, and happened to make more plays than usual.

I was going to say somewhat the same thing minus citing any examples.

He is solid no doubt and would start on most teams. But he got franchised because it was a "cheap" way to keep him. Kind of funny that salaries got inflated so much that the average of the top 5 salaries at the position were considered the cheaper route!!

I think i'd rather have both of the Eagles corners over him.

Well, Well.

I'm gonna disagree with both you boys.

Samuel is much better than you give him credit for, Harv. Your example is quite true. Some corners have a lot of picks bc they get thrown on. Samuel ain't one of those guys, He's quick and smart and creates his own opportunities. He's a tough guy who sticks his nose in there and gets the job done defensing the run. Against the pass he's versatile, intelligent and plays at the highest level. He's a top flight corner and not a one year fluke.

You'd rather have the Eagle corners than Samuel, Partial. That's fine, they are a solid tandem, but Samuel is quicker and faster than Brown or Sheppard and the better player ( by a slight margin). I'd take any of the 3 on my team, but Samuel is the superior player.

As far as NE giving Samuel the tag because it has been now rendered "cheap". that's pure bullshit. NE doesn't regard giving the tag lightly. That organization has a very clear understanding of each of it's player's value. NE has had the opportunity to give the tag to a number players and have passed, letting some stars walk.

If NE is giving Samuel the tag, they think is is a top 5 corner. I feel he is one of the two best I saw last year.

[packinpatland]

Him and Bailey are the best two corners in the game, is all.

Samuel? Not in my book. The guy tripled his career interception total this year... playing for a contract. He's overrated. He has talent all around him--especially his DL. Makes his job easy. Don't get me wrong, he's solid. However, a lot of average corners have had a year with a lot of interceptions (see Walt Harris in 2006, Deltha O'Neal and Chris Gamble in 2005, Tory James in 2004, Marcus Coleman in 2003, etc.). It's good that they made plays that year, but it still doesn't mean I think they are great. Most of them just got thrown on a lot, and happened to make more plays than usual.

I was going to say somewhat the same thing minus citing any examples.

He is solid no doubt and would start on most teams. But he got franchised because it was a "cheap" way to keep him. Kind of funny that salaries got inflated so much that the average of the top 5 salaries at the position were considered the cheaper route!!

I think i'd rather have both of the Eagles corners over him.

Well, Well.

I'm gonna disagree with both you boys.

Samuel is much better than you give him credit for, Harv. Your example is quite true. Some corners have a lot of picks bc they get thrown on. Samuel ain't one of those guys, He's quick and smart and creates his own opportunities. He's a tough guy who sticks his nose in there and gets the job done defensing the run. Against the pass he's versatile, intelligent and plays at the highest level. He's a top flight corner and not a one year fluke.

You'd rather have the Eagle corners than Samuel, Hawk. That's fine, they are a solid tandem, but Samuel is quicker and faster than Brown or Sheppard and the better player ( by a slight margin). I'd take any of the 3 on my team, but Samuel is the superior player.

As far as NE giving Samuel the tag because it has been now rendered "cheap". that's pure bullshit. NE doesn't regard giving the tag lightly. That organization has a very clear understanding of each of it's player's value. NE has had the opportunity to give the tag to a number players and have passed, letting some stars walk.

If NE is giving Samuel the tag, they think is is a top 5 corner. I feel he is one of the two best I saw last year.

I said it much 'more shorter' but I did say pretty much the same thing. Thanks for being so eloquent.


Partial wrote:
He's not even that good. Some team will definitely overpay for him.


Bellichek isn't stupid (in the area of football), I don't think he'd slap the franchise tag on the guy if he didn't think he was any good. Too bad he's become a distraction rather than an 'attraction' for the team.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Him and Bailey are the best two corners in the game, is all.

I didn't say he sucked, but there's no way he's a top two corner in football. Not even close. Maybe not even in the top 10 in the league, IMHO.

Just off the top of my head. I'd take Bailey, McAlister, Newman, Mathis, Asomugha, and Winfield over him. I'd take our two corners out of the equation. I'd say he's more like borderline top 10 corner.

[packers11]

He is around top 10... BUT... YOU ALL are forgetting... Hes the only good CB on that team... There is no guy that can step up into his spot right now...

In the packers perspective : It would be like if Donald Driver was holding out... There would be no guy ready to step up to the #1 spot...

Samuel is the only true player maker at the CB position on the NE DEFENSE, and it will be a big blow if he really does hold out...

[KYPack]

Him and Bailey are the best two corners in the game, is all.

I didn't say he sucked, but there's no way he's a top two corner in football. Not even close. Maybe not even in the top 10 in the league, IMHO.

Just off the top of my head. I'd take Bailey, McAlister, Newman, Mathis, Asomugha, and Winfield over him. I'd take our two corners out of the equation. I'd say he's more like borderline top 10 corner.

Well Harve, it's June, WTF, let's rumble.

In short NO.

I still totally disagree with ya.

Let's rock.

1. Bailey no question best CB in the league. Should be a HOFer
2. McAlister NFW HE'S overrated. I see this guy live once a season. Big guy, plays the run as good as any CB in the league. Pass coverage? Bullies the young boys, gets beat by the top receivers pretty consistently. Chad Johnson has him shakin all over and cryin' like a baby in games. Nowhere near the talent of Samuel in pass coverage
3. Newman I like him, but he's inferior to Samuel in pass coverage. We could debate him a long time, but I don't think he is as tough a ballplayer as Samuel.
4 Mathis Decent player, good two way corner. An underrated guy He's a good troop but I think Samuel is better.
5. Asomugha The best young corner I've seen in years. Reminds of a young Herb Adderly. Has it all but experience. Should be the premier corner in the game in a couple seasons, even over Bailey.
6. Winfield. You are outta your mind putting him in this list. He don't belong in it.

Some of this is subject to opinion, but Samuel can flat out play. He's a top flight corner one of the best five in the league & I like him as the best corner in the game behind Bailey.

You don't & that's fine, but don't put guys like Winfield as superior players as examples.

[Tarlam!]

Well Harve, it's June, WTF, let's rumble.

Boy, this quote would look great in my sig, but I already have one of Shep's quotes!

[HarveyWallbangers]

2. McAlister NFW HE'S overrated. I see this guy live once a season. Big guy, plays the run as good as any CB in the league. Pass coverage? Bullies the young boys, gets beat by the top receivers pretty consistently. Chad Johnson has him shakin all over and cryin' like a baby in games. Nowhere near the talent of Samuel in pass coverage

I'd take McAlister. He's had about 5 very good years and 2 average years. That's better than Samuel's 3 average years and 1 very good year. McAlister was good last year--in case you didn't notice. He rebounded nicely. Considering Chad averaged well below his season average in yards (61 yards/game) and had 0 TDs in his two games against Baltimore in 2006, I doubt McAlister was shaking in his boots. Baltimore was 6th in passing yards allowed--despite being ahead in most games. They led the league in interceptions. McAlister had 6 picks, 22 pass deflections, 2 TD returns--below Samuel for this year but amongst the league leaders. He didn't give up a lot of catches either--as evidenced by his low tackle total. I give McAlister the edge because he's been better for many more years than Samuel. Samuel had 6 interceptions and 37 pass deflections in his first 3 years, then went off for 10 interceptions and 24 pass deflections in his contract year. Imagine that.

What did you think of Samuel before this year?

[HarveyWallbangers]

6. Winfield. You are outta your mind putting him in this list. He don't belong in it.

I might agree with you here, but I bet there are some scouts that would rate him higher. Samuel was an average corner before this year. I'm not sold on him being good, year in and year out--just like I'm not sold on Walt Harris repeating his fantastic year. Guys go up and down. See Dre' Bly, Shawn Springs, etc. Some years they are fantastic. Some years they are average. Until Samuel puts back to back years together, there's no f'in way I can rank him as the 2nd best corner in the league.

[KYPack]

2. McAlister NFW HE'S overrated. I see this guy live once a season. Big guy, plays the run as good as any CB in the league. Pass coverage? Bullies the young boys, gets beat by the top receivers pretty consistently. Chad Johnson has him shakin all over and cryin' like a baby in games. Nowhere near the talent of Samuel in pass coverage

I'd take McAlister. He's had about 5 very good years and 2 average years. That's better than Samuel's 3 average years and 1 very good year. McAlister was good last year--in case you didn't notice. He rebounded nicely. Considering Chad averaged well below his season average in yards (61 yards/game) and had 0 TDs in his two games against Baltimore in 2006, I doubt McAlister was shaking in his boots. Baltimore was 6th in passing yards allowed--despite being ahead in most games. They led the league in interceptions. McAlister had 6 picks, 22 pass deflections, 2 TD returns--below Samuel for this year but amongst the league leaders. He didn't give up a lot of catches either--as evidenced by his low tackle total. I give McAlister the edge because he's been better for many more years than Samuel. Samuel had 6 interceptions and 37 pass deflections in his first 3 years, then went off for 10 interceptions and 24 pass deflections in his contract year. Imagine that.

What did you think of Samuel before this year?

I thought he was a solid young guy. Last season he bloomed and moved into the elite class. My negative take on McAlister is largely due to his whippin he took from Palmer, Housh, and Chad in the second game of '05. My "shakin in his boots" comment was too true after that game. Those guys made McAlister (& Ed Reed) look like rookies. That'll happen. McAlister is a solid player, but not an elite cover corner at this point. To me, that's Bailey and Samuel as the top two cover guys. Bailey is the best corner with the group we are talkin' about filling out the top 5 or 6.

I'd have to say that it's tough to argue who's the best at the top level. I'mn expressing my opinion from my observation. I like a lot of things Samuel does in pass coverage. to be fair, NE's scheme has helped him a lot, but he's taken advantange of that shot and cashed in.

You would rate him in the top 5 wouldn't ya?

NE does.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Well, no that I thought about it. He could be borderline top 5. I think I'd take Asomugha, Mathis, and Bailey. He could be 4. Like you said, it's hard to say. If he put together another year in 2007 like 2006, he'd jump way up there. You could say the same for Asomugha.

How do you rate Al Harris and Charles Woodson?

[KYPack]

Well, no that I thought about it. He could be borderline top 5. I think I'd take Asomugha, Mathis, and Bailey. He could be 4. Like you said, it's hard to say. If he put together another year in 2007 like 2006, he'd jump way up there. You could say the same for Asomugha.

How do you rate Al Harris and Charles Woodson?

Unless I just went to a freak game, Asomugha is the heir apprent for the top spot. I'd rate Samuel over him now, but by the end of next season, he could wll be the #2 man

Mathis? a great corner. I couldn't argue too strongly if you said he was the #2 corner, cause he might be. I went nuts when you listed McAlister #2. I'm not in his fan club for the reasons stated above.

I like our pair. Harris is very smart and uses his brains to cover. Woodson is a enigmatic, but very effective player, a good two way corner. The only problem I have with our pair is they are long in the tooth. We could well wind up without either guy by years end, due to injury etc. We must develop our depth at that position.