The man with tickets in Packerland

[packinpatland]

Maybe we should all buy some tickets from this guy, then get really rowdy and kicked out of the game causing the guy to have his tickets revoked

See, this is brilliance. I was all outraged about the guy and was thinking how you could try to legislate the problem away, but this is far more elegant and effective. Plus, we'd have a blast gettin' booted, especially if Madtown brought some of his boys to assist in the rowdieness. Everybody wins!

Yes!! And if we all did it at a Viking game, Rastak could come and basically get blamed for the whole thing!!

[Rastak]

Maybe we should all buy some tickets from this guy, then get really rowdy and kicked out of the game causing the guy to have his tickets revoked

See, this is brilliance. I was all outraged about the guy and was thinking how you could try to legislate the problem away, but this is far more elegant and effective. Plus, we'd have a blast gettin' booted, especially if Madtown brought some of his boys to assist in the rowdieness. Everybody wins!

Yes!! And if we all did it at a Viking game, Rastak could come and basically get blamed for the whole thing!!

[CaliforniaCheez]

Please do not comment unless you read the article.

If you don't understand, read it again!

The tickets were originally purchased by a bar in 1957 when it was perfectly legal and there were no waiting lists. This bar had been a Packer ticket distributor since the 1920's.

The gentlemen in question purchased the bar in 1991. As part of the bar's assets he purchaed 331 season tickets of the original lot of 350.

All legal. He bought a bar to get the tickets. He sells to liked family members at face value. If there are extra he sells them at "market price".

The guy is not stealing. He recognized a good business opportunity.

[GrnBay007]

Wonder what he paid for the Bar? Obviously a good investment.


Hey.....come to think of it, I think I'm related to that guy! :P

[CaliforniaCheez]

Wonder what he paid for the Bar? Obviously a good investment.


Hey.....come to think of it, I think I'm related to that guy! :P

But are you in his will??

He's only 67. He could be selling tickets for 30 more years.

[GrnBay007]

Wonder what he paid for the Bar? Obviously a good investment.


Hey.....come to think of it, I think I'm related to that guy! :P

But are you in his will??

He's only 67. He could be selling tickets for 30 more years.

I might be better off trying to marry him then.

:P

[NewsBruin]

The article is a bit confusing, as I think it was trying to say the face value of the tickets is $50, $60, $65 (or whatever), not that he was charging the face value. Lkewise, it seems to say that the "extended family" is the Packer fans who buy his tickets. We're not talking about getting a reuinion together. Nor are we talking about the bar as an Official Distributor; it used to be, but now it's just another season ticketholder.

But I'm not a fan of this guy either. I'm all about free enterprise, but I believe profit should reflect created value, not just moving a commodity from one hand to another. Scalping tickets does nothing more than artificially increase the cost of a commodity without providing any increase in value.

Would some of our legal minds help me on this? I believe the Packers have rules that season ticket rights may not be bought or sold from one person to the next. If a person doesn't renew, his rights go back to the Packers, who'll give them to the next name in line. So if the restaurant owned the tickets, then it could retain them if it had new ownership. But if the tickets were in the owner's name, he could not sell them to someone else as part of the deal, nor could the new owner create a new company to sell the tickets. It would all have to be under the bar's name.

Likewise, if the owner is selling the restaurant's season tickets, then he couldn't directly take the money from them any more than he could put $5 in his wallet every time someone orders chicken fingers, could he?

If it's the restaurant's property, then the transactions should be made through the business. If it's the owner's property, then Green Bay would have the right to revoke the tickets.

Am I right on that?

Also, I believe the recent Tampa Bay Buccaneers' Supreme Court case (involving consent to searches) noted that a ticket is merely a one-time license to a seat, and the stadium maintained the right to revoke it at its own pleasure. If the Packers conclude they don't want this guy holding 331 tickets, then they should be able to tell him, "We're not selling you any more tickets next season."

My math came out a bit different: Assuming he sells 300 season tickets per game for 6 regular season Green Package games, and makes a $100 markup per ticket, that's $180,000 pure profit every season. I'll assume he gives away his preseason and postseason tickets to fund the local school system or starving children in far-off countries.

The point is, I don't feel particularly endeared to someone who pockets $1,000,000 every 6 years or less for holding on to tickets.

I have an aunt whose in-laws hold three sets of Milwaukee tickets. I may not get to go every year or every other year but I can possibly get tickets at face value if I call early enough. I saw Vikes play in Lambeau on a MNF game. I understand that not everyone is as blessed as I, and that's where scalpers/brokers come in.

I don't know what Packertours includes in its charges, and I don't mind them making a profit from arranging, providing, and bundling services together. If they just say "Here's a $50 ticket for $150," then that's $100 that didn't need to be spent. If they get me a bus, beer, brats, hotel room, souveniers, and a private Lambeau Tour; and they make it so that 20 of my newfound closest friends have a good time with me, then that's a worthy endeavor.

But if the Packers hear about guys like this, maybe they ought to limit the number of tickets that an owner can hold if he/she/it is not giving away or selling at face value. Maybe they oughts to go online to stubhub.com and match $300 seats with their holders. However it goes, the Pack has 100% right to act or not act towards Mr. Burris or any other of its seaaon ticketholders.

The Packers set up the fanTIXchange (I have no idea how to pronounce that) to buy and sell season seats at near-face value and even give a little to the Boys' and Girls' Club.

Perhaps Mr. Burris should be made aware of such a generous setup.

[Tarlam!]

Well, if this is a business, then obviously he must be paying taxes on his profits, right?

[GBRulz]

Well, if this is a business, then obviously he must be paying taxes on his profits, right?

You're exactly right. You'd think he's paying taxes on his profits, which I'm sure he does, but on the other hand, he can jack up some made up business expense to counter that.

Wisconsin is funny when it comes to charging people for Packer related items. An example, our former governor wanted people to report income they made from parking cars on their lawn during games. After receiving several complaints, he withdrew, saying that people don't have to report the parking revenue as income. Personally, I disagree with that. A lady that I used to work with owns a double lot just north of Lambeau. She can park 80 cars each game @ $20 each. That's what, $16,000 a year pure profit? NON-TAXED profit, that is.

The stadium loses a ton of money in parking revenue simply because they don't have the room. For those that aren't familiar, only season ticket holders can park in the Lambeau lot now. And with this new wall they are constructing, they will be losing another 400 spots. I forget where I read it, but it was estimated that area businesses and residences make about 6-7 million annually just from parking.

[GBRulz]

newsbruin, here is a link that explains some of the legal mumbo jumbo on transferring tickets and such. and thank you for redoing the math on the tickets, I think I added an extra zero in there somewhere!!

http://www.packers.com/tickets/season_tickets/

[KYPack]

Hold it NB.

You were runnin' the numbers pretty fast there, but the situation is different than you describe. I've dealt with this guy & his group before.

The people in the "family" just buy the tickets from the cartel and go to the games. They pay face value for their tix and the transaction is the same as if they bought their Tix from the Pack.

The profit comes in when the "family member" doesn't attend the game. Then, the ticket goes to Burris. Burris sells the ticket for whatever he can get for it. He pays the "family member" his face value back and pockets the rest. I've negotiated with this group when I was trying to get tix, say, for a Bear game.

He gets a pretty penny for his wares. Generally, this group is higher than Ticket king or some of the popular vendors. The supply varies. Good games like the Bears, Vikes, Lions or other marquee teams are in shorter supply than a Dec game with the Texans, fer instance.

He makes money doing this, operating the cartel is more profitable than running the bar was. He sold the joint years ago. You can't calaulate how much he makes, it's different for every game, but safe to say, it's good money. He better pay taxes on it. I know first hand, WI Dept of Revenue is a ferocious bunch.

GBM is right, he was howlin' like a baby when the seat license deal came up a few years ago. The "family member" paid it, so the problem was solved.

[Bretsky]

Wonder what he paid for the Bar? Obviously a good investment.


Hey.....come to think of it, I think I'm related to that guy! :P

But are you in his will??

He's only 67. He could be selling tickets for 30 more years.

I might be better off trying to marry him then.

:P

At that age he just might need two wives to get the job done; I know you are up to task as the first

[NewsBruin]

Yeah, I want to make sure I get it right, KY.

So there are regular "family" (non-family) who pay face, and one-time or waiting-list customers who take the upped charge?

Per the Packer site, if the corporation (bar) had dissolved, Burris would retain the rights to the 331 remaining tickets. If the tickets were in the bar's name (or the owner, identified as the owner of the bar), then it could be transferred to him once the business closed.

Still, to buy the bar for the tickets, run it a while, then close it and keep the tickets, making a regular profit off them...that's just tacky, especially if he bought the bar solely for the tickets.

Ultimately, the ball is in the Packers' court. It's aware of the operation that's going on. It knows how to get in contact with Mr. Burris, and it's their decision to re-offer ticket rights each year. If they're content that people are paying $500 per game, and it's lining his pocket, rather than helping out the Boys and Girls Club, then that's what they have to live with.

(Of course, there's always the option of buying a "market value" ticket, losing my table manners, then telling Packer security, "Do you know who I bought these $300 tickets from? I do, and he told me you wouldn't have the balls to take them away, junior! Now get me an import beer and hit my music!" Ah, to be young again...)

[LL2]

Well, if this is a business, then obviously he must be paying taxes on his profits, right?

You're exactly right. You'd think he's paying taxes on his profits, which I'm sure he does, but on the other hand, he can jack up some made up business expense to counter that.

Wisconsin is funny when it comes to charging people for Packer related items. An example, our former governor wanted people to report income they made from parking cars on their lawn during games. After receiving several complaints, he withdrew, saying that people don't have to report the parking revenue as income. Personally, I disagree with that. A lady that I used to work with owns a double lot just north of Lambeau. She can park 80 cars each game @ $20 each. That's what, $16,000 a year pure profit? NON-TAXED profit, that is.

The stadium loses a ton of money in parking revenue simply because they don't have the room. For those that aren't familiar, only season ticket holders can park in the Lambeau lot now. And with this new wall they are constructing, they will be losing another 400 spots. I forget where I read it, but it was estimated that area businesses and residences make about 6-7 million annually just from parking.

Hey, I'm all for people being able to make non-taxable income. If I could do it then I would. Read the article below. It might make you a little upset that the uber rich do not have to pay taxes or a lower percentage than the middle class. After reading it I do not think you will care that the parking lot lady doesn't pay taxes.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/08/06/100141304/index.htm

[GBRulz]

Hey, I'm all for people being able to make non-taxable income. If I could do it then I would. Read the article below. It might make you a little upset that the uber rich do not have to pay taxes or a lower percentage than the middle class. After reading it I do not think you will care that the parking lot lady doesn't pay taxes.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...1304/index.htm

There are alot of things about corporate America that I don't like, but that really is a moot point in this. I'm more concerned about my local community and what this extra income, if reported as sales income could do for our city. I'm all for people being able to make non-taxable income, too. But, why should only some be allotted to this luxury and others aren't?