Clowney = Cory Rodgers

[HarveyWallbangers]

Stock is Rising

Utility players are hard to find. Every offensive coordinator craves for a player that is athletic enough to be utilized in multiple roles to keep defenses guessing. That is why Chicago converted Devin Hester to wide receiver. Speed, athleticism, and agility can be used in countless ways with the help of a creative coordinator. Rookie David Clowney could be that type of threat. The barely six-foot, 185 pounds he has dropped plenty of passes in camp. Today, however, he made a strong case for a roster spot. During red zone work, Clowney motioned to the right, curled behind Favre and ran a swing route. Favre zipped it to him and Clowney turned on the burners for a 15-yard touchdown. At Virginia Tech, Clowney only returned five kicks in three seasons, but he is competing for that role with the Packers. In today’s kick return work Clowney displayed natural vision. The coverage unit wasn’t at full tilt, but Clowney’s speed gives him an immediate advantage over other Packers receivers. That in itself is worth a roster spot.

[Bretsky]

Stock is Rising

Utility players are hard to find. Every offensive coordinator craves for a player that is athletic enough to be utilized in multiple roles to keep defenses guessing. That is why Chicago converted Devin Hester to wide receiver. Speed, athleticism, and agility can be used in countless ways with the help of a creative coordinator. Rookie David Clowney could be that type of threat. The barely six-foot, 185 pounds he has dropped plenty of passes in camp. Today, however, he made a strong case for a roster spot. During red zone work, Clowney motioned to the right, curled behind Favre and ran a swing route. Favre zipped it to him and Clowney turned on the burners for a 15-yard touchdown. At Virginia Tech, Clowney only returned five kicks in three seasons, but he is competing for that role with the Packers. In today’s kick return work Clowney displayed natural vision. The coverage unit wasn’t at full tilt, but Clowney’s speed gives him an immediate advantage over other Packers receivers. That in itself is worth a roster spot.

Sounds like this guy has potential in some different areas the Packers have not had threats at. If Jones and Martin or Holliday are looking alright, this guy sounds worthy of giving a shot to as opposed to the Fraud.

[Packnut]

16

Well, you don't draft a guy at 16 and pay him a ton of cash with the intent to play running downs only. Williams will not be here next season.

[vince]

Sounds like this guy has potential in some different areas the Packers have not had threats at. If Jones and Martin or Holliday are looking alright, this guy sounds worthy of giving a shot to as opposed to the Fraud.

Absolutely. Cut the Fraud. Clowney may or may not be the guy, but we know about the Fraud.

[vince]

Re: 16

Well, you don't draft a guy at 16 and pay him a ton of cash with the intent to play running downs only. Williams will not be here next season.

If Harrell proves capable of being effective against the pass, then you may be right. Too much talent on the defensive front is a good problem to have.

[woodbuck27]

Maybe David Clowney has only enough skills to be in the CFL where Cory Rodgers landed this season.

Cory Rodgers is doing pretty good so far up here this season. He scored a TD last week.

[KYPack]

Maybe David Clowney has only enough skills to be in the CFL where Cory Rodgers landed this season.

Cory Rodgers is doing pretty good so far up here this season. He scored a TD last week.

Americans would prefer not to play in a land covered by thick sheets of ice.

+ You have to date a moose for your social life.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I’m not going to doubt that Harrell will turn out to be good because the one thing I do trust TT with is his drafting. However, whether he turns out to be good or not, this pick does nothing for Favre and his chances at winning this season. Harrell needs at least a full year before he gets back in shape and he just will not make much of an impact this year no matter how you look at it. And if this leads to the loss of Williams then I seriously hate the pick because you will be losing a good player and in essence just be trading off for players. On draft day I really wanted Bowe or Nelson and its looking like Nelson would have made a huge impact for us THIS year and in future years.

My point is that while I don't doubt Harrell will be good, if your like me and want to win with Favre, this pick will not make sense for another two years. I think Harrell only adds depth this year and nothing more, but I hope am wrong.

[woodbuck27]

Maybe David Clowney has only enough skills to be in the CFL where Cory Rodgers landed this season.

Cory Rodgers is doing pretty good so far up here this season. He scored a TD last week.

Americans would prefer not to play in a land covered by thick sheets of ice.

+ You have to date a moose for your social life.

You need a vacation to Montreal KY.

Maybe your heart couldn't handle it.

The most beautiful ladies in the world live here.

[woodbuck27]

I’m not going to doubt that Harrell will turn out to be good because the one thing I do trust TT with is his drafting. However, whether he turns out to be good or not, this pick does nothing for Favre and his chances at winning this season. Harrell needs at least a full year before he gets back in shape and he just will not make much of an impact this year no matter how you look at it. And if this leads to the loss of Williams then I seriously hate the pick because you will be losing a good player and in essence just be trading off for players. On draft day I really wanted Bowe or Nelson and its looking like Nelson would have made a huge impact for us THIS year and in future years.

My point is that while I don't doubt Harrell will be good, if your like me and want to win with Favre, this pick will not make sense for another two years. I think Harrell only adds depth this year and nothing more, but I hope am wrong.

Actually I really believe that your bang on with your thoughts above.

It's OK.

[KYPack]

Maybe David Clowney has only enough skills to be in the CFL where Cory Rodgers landed this season.

Cory Rodgers is doing pretty good so far up here this season. He scored a TD last week.

Americans would prefer not to play in a land covered by thick sheets of ice.

+ You have to date a moose for your social life.

You need a vacation to Montreal KY.

Maybe your heart couldn't handle it.

The most beautiful ladies in the world live here.

Been there many times Buck.

The boys in Quebec City say their ladies are the most beautiful ladies in Canada.

I was just playing that old forum game of "pin the tail on our resident Canuck".

[woodbuck27]

If Harrell's addition improves the rushing defense from a middle of the pack ranking to a top 10 or better by clogging running lanes, opening up the linebacking corps to make more plays, and making the strong pass rushing abilities of Corey Williams more effective by keeping him more fresh throughout the game, he will not only be instrumental in making the defense much better, but will also provide Brett Favre and the offense more time to operate and better field position to do so - two obviously vital components of offensive success.

Along with the obvious improvements that the OL will make opening holes for the running game after a year of experience in operating the ZBS and a strong offseason of work for the young group of linemen, as well as the added skills and experience throughout the depth of the receiving corps from the likes of Jones, Martin, and Holliday - the offense will perform better. The running backs will perform if the line performs, and we can't possibly get worse production from the TE position this year than last...

There is no reason to think that the arm injury will slow Harrell down once he regains game shape after a year off and learns the responsibilities and techniques employed by the Packer defensive line. There is also no reason to think it will take an inordinate amount of time for him to learn and regain his playing abilities - but for a rookie who missed most of his senior season, it will take a little bit of time - which we should give him...

It's surprising that the experienced fans represented on this board would jump to such negative conclusions about Harrell's ability to be a strong contributor in the overall winning formula after a few isolated pash rushing exercises by a run stuffer - in the first week of a rookie's camp experience no less.

Harrell is predominantly a run stopper. Williams is at his best as a pash rusher. Together, they should make an extremely strong combination - and they'll make each other - and the team - much better.

A number 1 draft pick can't be on the bench or otherwise not contributing on our team.

We had over the top too much need on our 'O' Vince.

TT surely had to draft a player that could step up now. Can't we agree on this?

TT had to see this need and ensure that NO.1 pick would have an excellent chance of being in our lineup this season.

If TT wanted to go 'D' then that position of need was at SS, or FS, then with the option of moving Nick Collins fr. FS to SS.

This pick of Justin Harrell has nothing to do with TT saying we have to (or he wants to) win this season.

The pick makes no sense based in TT's stance of late.

It makes no sense, based in our depth at DT and Harrel's health history.

That's why so many Packer fans were pissed at TT for picking at DT and Justin Harrell. It has nothing to do with Justin Harrell, who we hope wants to be huge for us.

Packer fans shouldn't be discredited because they are just fans.

It's well known that. . . Packer fans are amongst the most knowledgeable of all fans. and Packer fans are sick of 12-20.

Bottom line. TT blew this pick fr. a standpoint of our needs this season and we should forget Favre's needs.

It's about Packer fans needs and the Green Bay Packers.

[Brandon494]

I guarntee Clowney makes the team, and who ever thinks his speed is overrated should actually see him play in person before talking.

[vince]

Woody, what on earth has brought you to the predetermined conclusion that Justin Harrell will be "on the bench or otherwise not contributing to our team?" What makes you think that Harrell can't "step up" this year, and doesn't have "an excellent chance of being in our lineup this season?" Allow me to remind you of the expert scouting reports on Justin Harrell:

Mel Kiper: "Harrell was a real disruptive force along the interior of the defensive line. He has good size, quickness and athleticism for a defensive tackle. It's a shame he got hurt, because he was on his way to earning a pretty high grade, perhaps even a top 10 overall evaluation. Now he's back to right around 100 percent and has been able to put the injury behind him. Athletic 300+ pounder with the ability to make his presence felt along the interior. When Harrell is in there, he jumps out at you on film."

Pat Kirwan (nfl.com): "I had Justin Harrell going somewhere at this point in the draft because when he regained his health, it demonstrated to the NFL -- with the 35 reps on the bench -- NFL personnel people went back and looked at 2005 game tapes and convinced themselves he was a first-round selection because he has a unique ability to disengage from blockers and make plays in the backfield."

Street & Smith's: "Good size with long arms. Has the size and strength to play two-gap schemes, but may be best suited for a one-gap scheme where he can use his quickness to shoot gaps and make plays in the backfield. Quick off the ball. Stays low and maintains leverage. Agile; good change of direction. Effective against the run and pass. Very strong and powerful. Anchors well. Able to bull rush and collapse the pocket. Disruptive. Does well on line stunts. Instinctive; quick to locate the ball. Moves well through traffic. Closes quickly on the ball carrier. Will play hurt."

Pro Football Weekly: "Very fluid for his size with great functional playing strength. Good athlete. Shows good initial quickness to get into the gaps and disrupt, outstanding strength to stack the point and surprising range to make plays outside the tackle box. Good strength to play the double team. Effective bull rusher who can push the pocket inside and close to the quarterback. Shows good awareness to locate the ball. Reads hats and feels where pressure is coming from. Strong drive-through tackler. Very versatile--plays on the nose and as a three-technique and has the size to line up outside in a 3-4 front."

nfldraftscout.com: "Has thick upper-body mass with a firm chest, shoulders and good arm-muscle definition. … Has big hips, thick thighs and calves and room on his frame to add at least another 20 pounds of bulk with no loss in quickness. … Quick and explosive off the snap; even though he was used mostly to occupy multiple blockers at the line of scrimmage, he does a good job of anchoring and clogging up the inside rush lanes. … Has outstanding weight-room strength and is starting to learn how to translate that to the football field. … Does an effective job of combining aggressiveness with strength to create an explosive surge off the snap. … Maintains a low center of gravity to fill the inside lanes. … Will make plays down field and shows good urgency closing on the ball. ... Leader-by-example type who proved his moxie by refusing surgery to play with a ruptured biceps vs. Florida in 2006. … Responsible, mature type who really embraced the leadership role thrust upon him as a senior. … Difficult to handle in one-on-one situations; he will constantly battle until the whistle."

Scout.com: "A hard-working lineman with a lot of physical skill, Harrell could be one of the most underrated players in this draft. Tough, athletic defender who plays with top effort. Gets off the snap with a quick first step, is fluid changing direction and slides off blocks to make the play. Bends his knees, gets leverage on opponents and is rarely off his feet. Flashes power on the inside, gets push in the middle of the line or holds the point. Consistently doubled by opponents."

FootballsFuture.com: "Harrell has all the talent to be a standout defensive tackle at the next level. He has solid size, is a good athlete, and is strong. He is an excellent run stopper, displaying the ability to hold his ground at the point attack and get off blocks to bring down the ball carrier. He also shows the burst to get through the line and has the speed and athleticism to get to the outside and run down the offensive player. You have to love Harrell's attitude as well. After rupturing his bicep against Air Force, he came out and played through the pain against Florida the following week."

Obviously, he needs to prove himself on Sundays, but what have you seen, read, heard, or otherwise learned about Mr. Harrell that makes you think it's inevitable that he will be a complete bust, a conclusion at which you've obviously already arrived?

The most important thing that Ted Thompson can do to improve the play of the offense - and more importantly, of the ability of the Packers team to WIN (yes now) is to solidify and IMPROVE the run defense. Yes Woody, improving the defense's ability to shut down the opposition's running game HELPS THE PACKERS OFFENSE TREMENDOUSLY! THIS SEASON EVEN! More possessions with better field position is an absolute predeterminant of OFFENSIVE success.

TT did not "forget" Favre's needs, as you are so convinced he has. He just has a different (and in my opinion - more sophisticated and effective) opinion of how to impact success in the consumate team sport of footbal - than you, others on this board, and other sideline observers have.

And to your point about other needs, in terms of SS/FS, it appears that there are a number of strong candidates - at least in the opinion of the professional talent evaluation staff of the Green Bay Packers and of many of those who have seen the previous film and training camp play of no less than 4 candidates (not including Manual) for the starting safety position across from Collins.

That doesn't discredit your status as a great Packer fan, Woody. You are. Obviously, you have every right to state your opinions with conviction. It just says, to me anyway, that you're not the best person with the most experience to be managing this football franchise. And equally obvious is others right to disagree with your opinions.

Woody, your consistent use of the "12-20" BS as your main bash on Thompson is completely unconvincing. I know you understand enough about the management of a football franchise to know that AT LEAST the first year a General Manager takes the helm of a team, he's working almost exclusively with an inherited state of football operation - cap predicament, depth of talent, coaching staff, etc. Ted Thompson has acted boldly and effectively to improve this team in all aspects.

Did Ted screw up by not resigning Wahle? In my opinion - yes. I think he's even on record as saying as much. But to say that Ted Thompson is the one man to blame for the first year he assumed the reigns of this franchise is ignorant to the point of ridiculousness, and I know that you are far more experienced and intelligent than that. Remember the injuries that year? Did Ted cause them, Woody? Remember the former GM who struck out on draft picks and free agent signings too numerous to mention here, who left an aging team in cap hell?

This is a young, talented team on the rise - one that is clearly light-years ahead of last year - and certainly the year before - in terms of depth of talent, experience, skills, strength, leadership, character and attitude.

Will all those intangibles convert into more wins, a playoff appearance and/or a Super Bowl victory? Let's see how this team evolves. It appears to be a tough schedule this year. My money's on them being more consistent, competitive, and effective this year than either of the last two.

You obviously think differently. We all know where you stand on your perspective of how the safeties, running backs, receivers, and offensive line will inevitably completely suck. Some people simply believe that Underwood, Culver, Peprah, Rouse, Bush, Harrell, Morency, Jackson, Wynn, Jones, and others have the drive and (more importantly) the talent to be effective - in some cases very effective - players in this league. They just need to be given the opportunity to showcase that talent.

I don't question your undying love for the Packers, Woody, nor do I question your knowledge of the game. Fortunately though, we all get to watch them actually play the games and we don't have to blindly accept the doom and gloom scenarios you've consistently presented as inevitable throughout this offseason.

[Packnut]

Flip side

And of course the flip side is we don't all have to accept blind faith and optimism based on wishful thinking. No knows for sure at this moment How Harrell and the others will play out.

All I know for certain is that talk is cheap. It's time to see production on the field.