Preseason Packers vs Steelers: Reviews & Pics

[The Leaper]

I thought the Packers did OK.

For one thing, you have to go into this game with the recognition that the Steelers had already played a preseason game. That is a pretty large advantage right there, especially for the 2nd and 3rd string guys.

So, for our 2nd and 3rd string to more or less dominate the Steelers is no small feat. It speaks to the depth we have now that wasn't there 2-3 years ago.

However, offensive playmakers are still sorely lacking. Driver is a nice WR, but he doesn't scare teams much in terms of getting behind them. Jennings is pretty much the same. Why Thompson let Javon Walker just walk out of Green Bay is beyond me. I hope he slaps himself every morning in front of the mirror over that foolish decision.

Good defenses will continue to frustrate our offense immensely because we have few threats 10 yards past the line of scrimmage, and our RBs aren't strong enough in pass blocking to give Favre time to let something develop downfield. Without a running game, we are going to struggle to get to 8 wins.

[wist43]

A lot of good information there Top Hat, thanks for posting it.

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I've only thru the tape once, and only in a cursory fashion for the most part - I'll probably devote a couple of hours to looking at it tonight though.

That said, some things that stood out to me were:

- Starting offense was pathetic. Even though it's only the first preseason game, and the Steelers starting D is very stout, I think what we saw in the first quarter against the Steelers is what we're going to be seeing most of the seasion, i.e. receivers being smothered underneath, and the defense crowding the LOS daring the Packers to beat them over the top.

- The OL looked pedestrian at best. I watched Wells a few times, and even though he looks bigger he was still physically over matched at times. Colledge had a pathetic holding penalty. Jackson had no running room at all.

- James Jones looked OK, but that had more to do with the Steelers trotting out bartenders and bricklayers more than anything to do with Jones or Rodgers. He got free releases on just about every snap - so I think you have to take his numbers for this game with a grain of salt. Still, he can only take care of what's in front of him - he was OK.

- The starting defense looked pretty good. If the Packers are going to win games, they'll likely have to be of the 13-9 variety.

- Harrell is still pretty far behind. He's got to get it going... if we get all the way thru the preseason, and he still isn't at least holding his own, then I start to worry. As of now, he gets the free pass b/c of the injury/inactivity - that free pass has to expire at some point though.

- Bigby was very disappointing... I know he wants to prove he's a tough player/hitter, but he's got to learn to go low and take a guys legs out. He missed too many tackles, and misjudged a couple of balls in the air. May have played himself out of a shot at starting.

- Underwood struggled mightily as well. If Manuel is the starter, we've got problems back there.

- Special Teams looked terrible again. McCarthy gives lip service to improved ST play, but I think that's all it is - lip service. The Packers really aren't committed to improving their ST's.

Overall, it was about what I expected... apparently, our #3's are better than Pittsburghs - woo hoo!!!!

Saw nothing that would lead me to believe the Packers are going to be capable of moving the ball consistently; nor did I see anything on ST's that would lead me to believe any of our legion of problems there has been solved.

[Brohm]

Special teams won't look good until the roster is more defined. Now they are just looking at bodies. A lot of players they drafted this year were specificaly special teams demons. Hopefully they can get them incorporated and have some consistancy for once.

Someone stepping up in the return department and distinguishing themselves would be great too. I think it will be sorted by the last preseason game. However, I would not expect to see leaps and bounds until some of the younger players take pride/establish a leadership role in ST...ala Henderson.

[Harlan Huckleby]

- Harrell is still pretty far behind. He's got to get it going... if we get all the way thru the preseason, and he still isn't at least holding his own, then I start to worry. As of now, he gets the free pass b/c of the injury/inactivity - that free pass has to expire at some point though.

I find it embarrassing that McCarthy announced Harrell as the starting defensive tackle. How do you tell players in other job competitions that they are being fairly judged by performance?

Harrell's a guy who barely played his senior year of college. I'm not worried about Harrell, and he's not a bust if he takes until next season to become a starter. Ya, you want your first rounder to play, and in a few rare cases like AJ Hawk they arrive polished, but PLENTY of first rounders need a year of seasoning.

[Scott Campbell]

I find it embarrassing that McCarthy announced Harrell as the starting defensive tackle. How do you tell players in other job competitions that they are being fairly judged by performance?

I don't see it as being a big deal. This isn't the O-Line, where starters play the entire game. There isn't a much of a difference between being a starter at DT vs. being a reserve. It has more to do with snap count at that position because of the way they rotate players.

And McCarthy still has time to send the right message if Harrell stinks things up. Example - Colledge was the starter last year too when camp opened, but lost his job.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Ya, there are 8 guys on defensive line who play a lot.

But you can bet the players are intensely concious of who are named as the starters. It's a matter of pride, status & career, a.k.a. money. How happy do you suppose KGB was losing his starting status? If Corey Williams, say, is outplaying HArrell, don't you think he feels slighted?

Maybe not a big deal, but a deal.

[RashanGary]

Thanks for the review Wist. You obviously watch the game multiple times, anylizing what happens on each play. I was acctually looking forward to what you had to say.

However, you take 12 offensive snaps against a defensive front that we rarely play and extrapolate that to what we can expect from the entire season.


I have 3 big question marks just like you:

1. Run game
2. ST's
3. Preventing the big play

I love the insight you bring as far as what happened, but how you put it together to project what we can expect is a lot pre-mature. I'm going to wait a full preseason and one full regular season game before I jump off the cliff.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Maybe not a big deal, but a deal.

McCarthy said Harrell probably would start. That's because he has Harrell and Pickett as the starters in the base/run defense. Williams is the starter in the pressure/pass defense--where Jenkins would move inside and KGB would play RE. If a team came out in four wide sets, you can be sure Williams would be in there as fast as can be. Since most teams start out with their base defense, Harrell would likely be the starter most games. Does it mean anything to Williams? Maybe. Maybe not. He probably worries more about getting on the field than whether he's named the nominal starter. Most DTs are used to a rotation by their fourth year in the league. A vast majority of teams use a DT rotation.

[Harlan Huckleby]

If Harrell is better than Corey Williams, Johnny Jolly, Colin Cole, etc. he should prove it before being honored with the starter tag.

[wist43]

Thanks for the review Wist. You obviously watch the game multiple times, anylizing what happens on each play. I was acctually looking forward to what you had to say.

However, you take 12 offensive snaps against a defensive front that we rarely play and extrapolate that to what we can expect from the entire season.


I have 3 big question marks just like you:

1. Run game
2. ST's
3. Preventing the big play

I love the insight you bring as far as what happened, but how you put it together to project what we can expect is a lot pre-mature. I'm going to wait a full preseason and one full regular season game before I jump off the cliff.

JH,

Of course it would be ridiculous to extrapolate 12 plays in a preseason game into a seasons worth of production, or lack thereof. What I extrapolate upon is recent history, personnel, and scheme.

Simply put, the Packers neither run the scheme nor possess the players that would force the defense to back off. Everybody runs drag routes, screens, hitches in the middle of the field, etc, but with no big play/deep threat, and a scheme disinclined to putting that type of pressure on a defense anyway, defenses can comfortably camp 8-9 guys, if not in the box, at least w/in a few yds of the LOS. Don't see that changing.

That lack of explosiveness both on the outside and up the seam with the TE creates all kinds of problems in the running game as well. Too many bodies too close to the LOS, smallish offensive linemen... every once in a while they may pop one, but having all those defenders crowding the LOS makes it very tough to create much running room.

Basically, I see a repeat of last year. The Packers could sometimes move the ball between the twenties, but when teams decided to tighten up, the Packers couldn't consistently move the ball.

We apparently have no TE, an argument could be made that the ground is even more suspect now 3 weeks into camp than it was at the start of camp, ST's don't look to be improved, etc...

Rodgers moving the ball against burger flippers isn't enough to have me drinking Kool-Aid.

[wist43]

If Harrell is better than Corey Williams, Johnny Jolly, Colin Cole, etc. he should prove it before being honored with the starter tag.

Based on performance, your starters would be Jolly and Williams.

Pickett looks pretty sluggish, Cole has been ok, Jolly has been the best DT all camp...

There was an article, or maybe it was just a blurb in the JS, that said Harrell was being w/held from going up against any of the starting offensive linemen for fear of hurting his confidence... by performance he's probably 5th on the depth chart; by status, he's top two - if not #1.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Defensive tackles are paid first and foremost to stuff the run and tie-up blockers. The best two defensive tackles will start in the base defense.

The argument that being a starter doesn't matter because of rotation is baloney, every starting job is a prize. It's like saying it doesn't matter who wins the starting halfback job - Heron's coming in on third down.

I expect on opening day the two best defensive tackles will be starting. Maybe the coaches chose to name Harrell as a starter early to put more pressure on him, motivate him in some way.

[wist43]

Defensive tackles are paid first and foremost to stuff the run and tie-up blockers. The best two defensive tackles will start in the base defense.

The argument that being a starter doesn't matter because of rotation is baloney, every starting job is a prize. It's like saying it doesn't matter who wins the starting halfback job - Heron's coming in on third down.

I expect on opening day the two best defensive tackles will be starting. Maybe the coaches chose to name Harrell as a starter early to put more pressure on him, motivate him in some way.

Harrell will be a regular part of the DT rotation. In terms of %??? JH gave a detailed breakdown of PT, don't remember what he came up with... off the top of my head I'd figure Harrell to be 4th in snaps.

He's got talent, he's just way behind in terms of strength and conditioning - to the point where his rookie season will probably look pretty disappointing. Even if he struggles this year, I'll hold out hope that he'll be good long term.