Coaches ask Favre to play safe

[Bretsky]

Now 28 is absolutely ridiculous; for me we'd probably be right in the middle of the pack

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm ranking in terms of #1 and #2 WRs--because that's what we were discussing in the other thread:

1. Indianapolis Colts - Harrison / Wayne - BETTER
2. Arizona Cardinals - Fitzgerald / Boldin - BETTER
3. St. Louis Rams - Holt / Bruce - BETTER
4. Cincinnati Bengals - Johnson / Houshmandzadeh - BETTER
5. Detroit Lions - Williams / Johnson - BETTER
6. New England Patriots - Moss / Stallworth - BETTER (Depends if they get the broke down Moss or not)
7. Denver Broncos - Walker / Marshall - EVEN (Jennings showed me more than Marshall last year, so I can't call this any worse than even)
8. Dallas Cowboys - Owens / Glenn - BETTER (although I have a bad feeling about Glenn this year)
9. Baltimore Ravens - Clayton / Mason - WORSE
10. Pittsburgh Steelers - Ward / Holmes - EVEN
11. N.Y. Giants - Burress / Toomer - WORSE
12. New Orleans Saints - Colston / Henderson - WORSE
13. Seattle Seahawks - Branch / Hackett - WORSE
14. Miami Dolphins - Chambers / Booker - WORSE
15. N.Y. Jets - Coles / Cotchery - EVEN
16. Carolina Panthers - Smith / Carter or Colbert or Jarrett - WORSE
17. Philadelphia Eagles - Brown / Curtis - WORSE
18. Chicago Bears - Muhammad / Berrian - EVEN (I'd take our guys, but I'll call it a wash)
19. Cleveland Browns - Edwards / Jurevicius - WORSE

I'll stop here, the rest are worse in my book.

For me, there are 7 combinations that are clearly better. Another 4 that are close. No, it's not far-fetched for me to think they are a top 10 1-2 combination in the league. #12-13 at the worst. Top half easily.

[Partial]

I'm ranking in terms of #1 and #2 WRs--because that's what we were discussing in the other thread:

1. Indianapolis Colts - Harrison / Wayne - BETTER
2. Arizona Cardinals - Fitzgerald / Boldin - BETTER
3. St. Louis Rams - Holt / Bruce - BETTER
4. Cincinnati Bengals - Johnson / Houshmandzadeh - BETTER
5. Detroit Lions - Williams / Johnson - BETTER
6. New England Patriots - Moss / Stallworth - BETTER (Depends if they get the broke down Moss or not)
7. Denver Broncos - Walker / Marshall - EVEN (Jennings showed me more than Marshall last year, so I can't call this any worse than even)
8. Dallas Cowboys - Owens / Glenn - BETTER (although I have a bad feeling about Glenn this year)
9. Baltimore Ravens - Clayton / Mason - WORSE
10. Pittsburgh Steelers - Ward / Holmes - EVEN
11. N.Y. Giants - Burress / Toomer - WORSE
12. New Orleans Saints - Colston / Henderson - WORSE
13. Seattle Seahawks - Branch / Hackett - WORSE
14. Miami Dolphins - Chambers / Booker - WORSE
15. N.Y. Jets - Coles / Cotchery - EVEN
16. Carolina Panthers - Smith / Carter or Colbert or Jarrett - WORSE
17. Philadelphia Eagles - Brown / Curtis - WORSE
18. Chicago Bears - Muhammad / Berrian - EVEN (I'd take our guys, but I'll call it a wash)
19. Cleveland Browns - Edwards / Jurevicius - WORSE

I'll stop here, the rest are worse in my book.

For me, there are 7 combinations that are clearly better. Another 4 that are close. No, it's not far-fetched for me to think they are a top 10 1-2 combination in the league. #12-13 at the worst. Top half easily.

I agree with that, especially the added comments. When you add in the third receiver the better teams with more depth begin to surpass them, but as long as Jones is solid for a #3 (which all indications point to thus far), then we'll be all right.

The problem is we need to stay healthy. Then again, what team doesn't?

[PackerBlues]

Anybody recall GB doing a 4 WR set against the Steelers? I didnt record the game, and I was just wondering who the 4 recievers were when and if they did it.

I am not going to knock Jennings at all, I love the kid, and I think he compliments Driver in the same way that Brooks complimented Freeman. However, as far as him having more yards or receptions than Driver after the first 5 weeks, I think that may have been in large part due to Donald drawing double coverage. I would assume that opposing teams will still try to get away with that if they can. I am as happy about having Driver and Jennings as our #1 and #2 recievers as anyone, if not more, but honestly we need more than just one other guy to step up. Injuries happen, and we need depth. That #3 reciever is going to have to be able to step into the 1 or 2 spot if needed, and that means another guy is going to have to step up to take his place at #3.
My question is which two guys do you all think will be the ones to take the 3rd and 4th reciever spots?

[superfan]

My question is which two guys do you all think will be the ones to take the 3rd and 4th reciever spots?

If Jones continues to impress, then he is a virtual lock for #3. After that, I see a WRBC situation where Martin, Holliday rotate in and out with the top 3 and see some time in 4 WR sets. Ferguson and Clowney will get occasional looks, assuming they even make the team.

I'm not counting on Koren Robinson to make any contribution whatsoever this year, but if he is reinstated, sober, in shape, and focused, he could be a very good #4 WR. In that dream scenario, I really like the top 4 of Driver, Jennings, Jones, Robinson, with Martin and Holliday off the bench.

Other huge ifs - IF Ferg is somehow healthy and shows the talent he had 5 years ago and IF Clowney can get his game together, that is a very deep receiving corps.

Glug, glug.

As it is, we have a couple pretty good guys, a couple decent guys, and some question marks.

[Deputy Nutz]

Driver
Jennings
Jones
Ferguson

I see some overreacting to this article, and the fact is, Sherman was doing the same thing before his departure with building up the running game. Maybe it wasn't to the point where he was going to rely on defense and special teams to win the ball game, but he was shifting the offense more towards the run than the pass.

The bottom line is Favre is 37 and has less offensive power than in years pass although I don't know if it worse than the 2001-2002 team with a lazy Freeman and a freelancing Billy Schroeder. and aging Dorsey Levens, and emerging Ahman Green. Tyrone Davis was the star at Tight End don't forget, because Mark Chumura was injuried and molesting girls in the hot tube.

[Bretsky]

I'm ranking in terms of #1 and #2 WRs--because that's what we were discussing in the other thread:

1. Indianapolis Colts - Harrison / Wayne - BETTER
2. Arizona Cardinals - Fitzgerald / Boldin - BETTER
3. St. Louis Rams - Holt / Bruce - BETTER
4. Cincinnati Bengals - Johnson / Houshmandzadeh - BETTER
5. Detroit Lions - Williams / Johnson - BETTER
6. New England Patriots - Moss / Stallworth - BETTER (Depends if they get the broke down Moss or not)
7. Denver Broncos - Walker / Marshall - EVEN (Jennings showed me more than Marshall last year, so I can't call this any worse than even)
8. Dallas Cowboys - Owens / Glenn - BETTER (although I have a bad feeling about Glenn this year)
9. Baltimore Ravens - Clayton / Mason - WORSE
10. Pittsburgh Steelers - Ward / Holmes - EVEN
11. N.Y. Giants - Burress / Toomer - WORSE
12. New Orleans Saints - Colston / Henderson - WORSE
13. Seattle Seahawks - Branch / Hackett - WORSE
14. Miami Dolphins - Chambers / Booker - WORSE
15. N.Y. Jets - Coles / Cotchery - EVEN
16. Carolina Panthers - Smith / Carter or Colbert or Jarrett - WORSE
17. Philadelphia Eagles - Brown / Curtis - WORSE
18. Chicago Bears - Muhammad / Berrian - EVEN (I'd take our guys, but I'll call it a wash)
19. Cleveland Browns - Edwards / Jurevicius - WORSE

I'll stop here, the rest are worse in my book.

For me, there are 7 combinations that are clearly better. Another 4 that are close. No, it's not far-fetched for me to think they are a top 10 1-2 combination in the league. #12-13 at the worst. Top half easily.

I would not argue with this, although I think the Steelers might be higher than us.....I really like Holmes.........but I also do feel like GB is lower when looking at the whole WR core we were debating in this thread as opposed to just the #1 and #2

[packrulz]

"Then again, what happens if we have to score points? I'm kind of in-between that right now. At some point, you've got to turn it loose."

This is the crux of the problem, I understand the philosophy of playing it safe, controlling the ball, and moving the chains, but I'm not sure they have the ability to do that. If the defense crowds the box, stuffs the run, breaks up the screens and short passes, you have to throw deep. I guess MM is just trying to get Brett to avoid throwing interceptions, but if the running game doesn't click he's going to have to throw. The problem last year was scoring in the red zone, why not go to 4 WR's? Field goals aren't going to win a lot of games. I think they're deeper at WR than RB, I'll believe they can pound the rock when I see it.

[RashanGary]

I'm a defense 1st sort of guy so needless to say I'm pretty excited about this whole approach of McCarthy. If Favre can hold back his anxiety and buy into what McCarthy is selling then we can have some really good things.

I'll tell you what, if we win a good # of our first 4 or 5 games and Favre sees how he has to contribute to winning then I think things will just start to roll up for this Packer team. All of the young guys buy in. They don't know any better. Right now, a fast start is important for GB so Favre buys in.


BTW, I agree Partial. Based on that list of #1's and #2's, I think we are right up with the top 10. Jones, Martin and Holliday are probably as reliable as any #3, 4 and 5 in the league.

[RashanGary]

If Favre can just come in and lead the offense and not screw up despite the fact that his RB might not be where he wants him or Jennings might not be Driveresq in how he runs is routes or his TE might be a lump on a log, they can still win with defense and special teams.

That said, by the end of the year; Jackson, Mornecy and Herron should be on the same general page with Favre. If Jennings stays healthy he can be on a similar page with Favre as well. The line should also be playing it's best toward the end. If they can just win some games early on defense and Favre doesn't screw up, things will come together for him at the time when it matters most. I think the Packers can be a dangerous team in the playoffs with an offense that is getting in it's groove, a defense that is smothering for four quarters and a good ST's. It's all predicated on Favre not losing the game and it's GREAT to see a coach who is willing to coach Favre the way McCarthy is.

[RashanGary]

I hate to say it, but McCarthy is asking Favre to do what Brady naturally does and what Manning did in his lowest #'s year but most successfull year. If you want to win, it's more important for your QB not to screw up than it is for him to be the gunslinging playmaker.

Sure a QB has to make plays like Manning did last year or Brady has done his whole career but if you look at Manning, his most successfull season was his Bradyesq season not his most spectacular season. Favre needs to chill the hell out and play football like the championship QB's of the present and past did it. It's fun to watch a gun slinger, but I'm ready to watch a winner.

[MadtownPacker]

This is the crux of the problem, I understand the philosophy of playing it safe, controlling the ball, and moving the chains, but I'm not sure they have the ability to do that. If the defense crowds the box, stuffs the run, breaks up the screens and short passes, you have to throw deep. I guess MM is just trying to get Brett to avoid throwing interceptions, but if the running game doesn't click he's going to have to throw. The problem last year was scoring in the red zone, why not go to 4 WR's? Field goals aren't going to win a lot of games. I think they're deeper at WR than RB, I'll believe they can pound the rock when I see it.

Maybe M3 is just trying to set the standard high for Favre. He might figure he needs to set it high so that Favre and him can met halfways. I highly doubt he doesnt want Favre to be Favre. There was one game last season where the Pack was behind and Favre said M3 told him to do what he does. So I think M3 just wants his QB to know that there is a limit to the freelancing.

[Bretsky]

If Favre can just come in and lead the offense and not screw up despite the fact that his RB might not be where he wants him or Jennings might not be Driveresq in how he runs is routes or his TE might be a lump on a log, they can still win with defense and special teams.

That said, by the end of the year; Jackson, Mornecy and Herron should be on the same general page with Favre. If Jennings stays healthy he can be on a similar page with Favre as well. The line should also be playing it's best toward the end. If they can just win some games early on defense and Favre doesn't screw up, things will come together for him at the time when it matters most. I think the Packers can be a dangerous team in the playoffs with an offense that is getting in it's groove, a defense that is smothering for four quarters and a good ST's. It's all predicated on Favre not losing the game and it's GREAT to see a coach who is willing to coach Favre the way McCarthy is.

You sure do use a lot of ifs

This argument that Favre must be safe assumes an incredibly dominating defense and also assumes that we iron out this safety postions that has not looked good so far, on paper or in games.

But if the defense is incredibly dominant and gives up very few points
and if Favre plays it safe and throws the ball away more (KEEP IN MIND THE LACK OF GAMBLING MAY ALSO RESULT IN FEWER GAMBLES THAT WORK)
and if the OL improves
and if the RB's are competent
and if the WR's stay healthy and do as well as we'd expect them to

then this theory of winning will work if we have comparable talent to our opponent and they make more mistakes than we do and don't have any big special team plays.

[MadtownPacker]

I hate to say it, but McCarthy is asking Favre to do what Brady naturally does and what Manning did in his lowest #'s year but most successfull year. If you want to win, it's more important for your QB not to screw up than it is for him to be the gunslinging playmaker.

Sure a QB has to make plays like Manning did last year or Brady has done his whole career but if you look at Manning, his most successfull season was his Bradyesq season not his most spectacular season. Favre needs to chill the hell out and play football like the championship QB's of the present and past did it. It's fun to watch a gun slinger, but I'm ready to watch a winner.

Brady does naturally? Sorry but control freak belichick deserves ALOT of credit for that. Brady has always been asked to manage games not go out and win them with his arm. When he has been asked to do that he has had his issues as well. Just see the playoff game vs the broncos in 2005 (INT to Champ Bailey to seal the loss), last season vs the Colts (another game ending INT).

Manning would not have even got out of the first round if his defense hadn't flipped the script and clamped down on the run. Favre has shown he can manage games but to manage games your defense has to keep them managable too. Always giving up 2+ TD in the first half always put all the pressure on the O to score. Thats why Im excited about this year. The O is still developing but the D may be good enough to balance it out.

[Bretsky]

This is the crux of the problem, I understand the philosophy of playing it safe, controlling the ball, and moving the chains, but I'm not sure they have the ability to do that. If the defense crowds the box, stuffs the run, breaks up the screens and short passes, you have to throw deep. I guess MM is just trying to get Brett to avoid throwing interceptions, but if the running game doesn't click he's going to have to throw. The problem last year was scoring in the red zone, why not go to 4 WR's? Field goals aren't going to win a lot of games. I think they're deeper at WR than RB, I'll believe they can pound the rock when I see it.

Maybe M3 is just trying to set the standard high for Favre. He might figure he needs to set it high so that Favre and him can met halfways. I highly doubt he doesnt want Favre to be Favre. There was one game last season where the Pack was behind and Favre said M3 told him to do what he does. So I think M3 just wants his QB to know that there is a limit to the freelancing.

I think this is a lot more accurate than MM actually wanting Favre to take away his gambling mentality and all the chances. Favre doesn't have NE or Indy like mentality around him. He'll have to take some gambles when we are behind to move the chains and MM knows that. But MM is smart in sending this message.

He just wants him to be smarter and limit the mistakes.

I doubt if we win games like the Baltimore Ravens several years back; this isnt' a defense that will consistently give up only 10 points a game. Our special teams is not yet dominant. We're not where they were when they won the Super Bowl; I don't think we can say we have the best defense in our division yet.

Regular season.......please....get here