Ryan Grant? WTF TT?

[cheesner]

Where was this philosophy of yours, when the Sherminator was running the team into the ground?

This was before I figured out that Thompson is the Anti-Christ.

It was time for Sherman to move on, I realized this in hindsight. He took his shot and failed, once due to injury and once due to some bad play calling among other things. I'm not sure his strong suit would be rebuilding.

That said, I miss his honesty. While Thompson is a better player talent evaluator, he's a lying prick. You can't believe anything that comes out of his mouth.

WTF?

So it is more important to have a GM who reveals all of his cards (doesn't work in poker, don't think it will work in the NFL) than to have a good team?

The anti-TT crowd has gotten even weirder.

[Fritz]

I don't mind MM keeping Wynn, for now. The dude seems more practice squad material, but the position is thin. The trick seems to be knowing when to hold these kind of guys and when to fold 'em. Shermy (God bless him) tended to stick with guys a little too long (Ahmad Carroll, Donnell Washington, Cletidus Hunt). So far, TT seems pretty unsentimental (Manuel is gone! Those TT's-first-year crappy guards are gone!). I'm guessing that if Wynn doesn't bust his schnutts and show some real promise fairly soon, he'll be joining Joey Thomas (I didn't know he was even in anyone's camp til yesterday when I read he got cut) bagging groceries at the local Piggly-Wiggly.

[Lurker64]

That said, I miss his honesty. While Thompson is a better player talent evaluator, he's a lying prick. You can't believe anything that comes out of his mouth.

Ron Wolf also lied all the time, in GM circles he was famous for being one of the biggest liars of all time when it comes to players he's interested in, players he's not interested in, negotiations, or the draft. On a Packer pregame show a while back, the announcers were actually lamenting that Thompson didn't lie as much as Wolf did. If you ask Thompson about trading for a player from another team, Thompson will give you an honest answer of "I don't talk about players on other teams" while Wolf would just out and out lie to you and then do the opposite of whatever he just said at his earliest opportunity.

We don't mind this about Ron Wolf and we remember him fondly because he won. At the same time we look to find fault in TT because he's done some things we don't like, and even though it's the same faults that were worse in a guy that held the job before him, we lambast Thompson. At the same time, even though Sherman was a wretched GM we can at least play the "at least he was a good guy" card. I don't care if Thompson points and laughs at cripples, sends mean letters to orphans, or really hates kittens so long as he wins.

[Fritz]

Intersting, Lurker. I thought everybody just said Ron Wolf was "cagey." I like your putting the honest word to it. And I'm not necessarily being critical of Wolf. I think every GM in the NFL pretty much lies about which players they like or don't like or are pursuing or not. TT may do that, but he seems to lean toward the tactic of simply stonewalling, which is often much more aggravating to people than a well-told lie.

[retailguy]

That said, I miss his honesty. While Thompson is a better player talent evaluator, he's a lying prick. You can't believe anything that comes out of his mouth.

Ron Wolf also lied all the time, in GM circles he was famous for being one of the biggest liars of all time when it comes to players he's interested in, players he's not interested in, negotiations, or the draft. On a Packer pregame show a while back, the announcers were actually lamenting that Thompson didn't lie as much as Wolf did. If you ask Thompson about trading for a player from another team, Thompson will give you an honest answer of "I don't talk about players on other teams" while Wolf would just out and out lie to you and then do the opposite of whatever he just said at his earliest opportunity.

We like Ron Wolf, don't we?

What about "We're not rebuilding?"

What about "I'm painting my dreamhouse?"

It doesn't have to be player related, does it?

If he builds a winner, everyone will cheer.

If he doesn't he'll have compromised his character and that's NOT on the player responsibilities. That's about not being honest with his fans, and those he calls his supporters.

After you've given up your character and credibility what do you have left?

[Lurker64]

What about "We're not rebuilding?"

What about "I'm painting my dreamhouse?"

It doesn't have to be player related, does it?

If he builds a winner, everyone will cheer.

If he doesn't he'll have compromised his character and that's NOT on the player responsibilities. That's about not being honest with his fans, and those he calls his supporters.

Honestly, I'd be unhappy if the GM of my team didn't say those kinds of things, even if they're out and out lies and both I and the GM know that. Those are the sorts of things that are helpful to say. Saying "Most of these guys won't be in the league in two years and we'll be lucky to win 6 games, maybe in 3 years we'll be a competitor" doesn't really help a GM do his job.

If Thompson actually said things like this, it would be impossible for Thompson to sign free agents. Isn't that what a lot of the people most critical of Thompson would like? For him to be a brassier GM and go out and get some guys? Well to do that, you're going to need a guy who's willing and able to bend, spindle, and mutilate the truth. If you can tell a guy "We expect to be a superbowl contender" and get him to believe it, you have a hell of an easier time signing him than if you tell him "we're hoping to go 8-8."

If Thompson doesn't get results, knock him for not getting results. But don't be critical of the guy for telling the lies that competent GMs are supposed to tell.

[MJZiggy]

Not to be too picky here, but the painting of the dreamhouse was McCarthy, not Thompson...and he flat out said that he didn't want to call it rebuilding because he didn't want to give his players any kind of excuses for losing.

[retailguy]

What about "We're not rebuilding?"

What about "I'm painting my dreamhouse?"

It doesn't have to be player related, does it?

If he builds a winner, everyone will cheer.

If he doesn't he'll have compromised his character and that's NOT on the player responsibilities. That's about not being honest with his fans, and those he calls his supporters.

Honestly, I'd be unhappy if the GM of my team didn't say those kinds of things, even if they're out and out lies and both I and the GM know that. Those are the sorts of things that are helpful to say. Saying "Most of these guys won't be in the league in two years and we'll be lucky to win 6 games, maybe in 3 years we'll be a competitor" doesn't really help a GM do his job.

If Thompson actually said things like this, it would be impossible for Thompson to sign free agents. Isn't that what a lot of the people most critical of Thompson would like? For him to be a brassier GM and go out and get some guys? Well to do that, you're going to need a guy who's willing and able to bend, spindle, and mutilate the truth. If you can tell a guy "We expect to be a superbowl contender" and get him to believe it, you have a hell of an easier time signing him than if you tell him "we're hoping to go 8-8."

If Thompson doesn't get results, knock him for not getting results. But don't be critical of the guy for telling the lies that competent GMs are supposed to tell.

Lurker. I simply disagree. Arizona has been inept for years and still signs free agents. Some lies don't have to be told. They simply don't.

We'll see if they bring success.

[Fritz]

RG, I don't recollect any GM in the NFL ever saying that he was tearing his team apart and was rebuilding and really didn't expect to win for a few years. The closest I can think of was when Matt Millen rode into Detroit and said the 9-7 team he took over needed a big overhaul and he was the guy to do it - and he was going to do it fast cuz he had big expectations, quick.

Doh!

[Lurker64]

Lurker. I simply disagree. Arizona has been inept for years and still signs free agents. Some lies don't have to be told. They simply don't.

We'll see if they bring success.

Guys going to Arizona know they're going there to get paid and but they're not going to win a lot. They suit up every day, because they're getting paid a lot of money to do it, but you can tell that their hearts aren't in it because they know that the team's not going to go anywhere. When's the last time a FA that the Cardinals signed actually did something? The locker room atmosphere down there is legendarily bad because everyone there knows the team's bad, and nobody's really taken the time to convince them that they're not.

I want my GM guys convincing the guys that are coming in to expect to win, whether or not that's a reasonable expectation. Players run through brick walls to play for contenders. Players run to the bank to cash their paychecks to play for cellar dwellers.

[retailguy]

Lurker. I simply disagree. Arizona has been inept for years and still signs free agents. Some lies don't have to be told. They simply don't.

We'll see if they bring success.

Guys going to Arizona know they're going there to get paid and but they're not going to win a lot. They suit up every day, because they're getting paid a lot of money to do it, but you can tell that their hearts aren't in it because they know that the team's not going to go anywhere. When's the last time a FA that the Cardinals signed actually did something? The locker room atmosphere down there is legendarily bad because everyone there knows the team's bad, and nobody's really taken the time to convince them that they're not.

I want my GM guys convincing the guys that are coming in to expect to win, whether or not that's a reasonable expectation. Players run through brick walls to play for contenders. Players run to the bank to cash their paychecks to play for cellar dwellers.

What do you suppose Reggie White thought in 1993? All guys want to win and believe at some level that they will.

Did I want him to come out and say, "I'm gutting the team?" No, and neither did you. but isn't there a happy medium there somewhere instead of an out and out denial? The ravens in 2001 didn't lie to their fans. They said they'd need to "retool". They still are. They get Free agents. There are other examples too. Lets not focus on minor things like that.

Like I said, we'll see if the end justifies the means. Please note, I never said he wasn't a good talent evaluator. He's obviously very talented. Not sure he's a great leader at the other aspects of being a GM. That remains to be seen. Most of the complaints directed at Ted Thompson are aimed at things other than player evaluation. Most of the ardent supporters point to the player evaluation. It's an apple and orange discussion.

Any comparisons to Ron Wolf are a bit premature. Ron Wolf earned his respect through results. Had he not won, would he be anymore respected than Matt Millen? Guess we'll never know that, will we?

[son of a vic]

Retail, we've had our battles in the past, over Sherm and most recently Ned, but calling Ted a lying prick shows you can't judge his body of work without interjecting your clear personal bias against him.

So just come out and say that unless he wins a Super Bowl, he's a complete failure. Two years from now, if they are still in a rebuilding phase, I'll be right along side of you, pounding sand up ted's bung hole with a plunger. But it's way too early in the game, to have this much content for Uncle Ted.

You were so pro Sherm, and so anti Ted. It makes no sense man.

[son of a vic]

That said, I miss his honesty. While Thompson is a better player talent evaluator, he's a lying prick. You can't believe anything that comes out of his mouth.[/quote]

Yeah I liked how he accepted the blame for fourth and 26, by firing Donatell and Jags. A regular f'n mother theresa.

[RashanGary]

SOV, I am a (wait, THE) qualified judge of human morality and I will tell you right now that Sherman is a better man.

Being earths standing morality judge, I will testify now, for all to hear, that it is very likely Thompson rotts in hell for not coming out and telling everyone that the team he inheritted sucked. You guys may not be able to decipher these things but I, the devine morality judge, can see exactly what Ted is/was trying to do and his whole goal was to lie (just to lie) as he is a bad human. One of the few bad people acctually, the anti-christ if you will. I'm not affraid to make comments like this because I really do know everything and am the only human who can see intentions and judge them accurately.

[RashanGary]

If anyone ever has a question as to whether or not a person is inherantly good or evil, please PM me. I will be happy to peer into the soul of anyone in question and give you the answers that have, until this point, been unable to be determined by man kind.

I'm typically a pretty modest person but the reality is that I am god in human form. Please, don't refer to me as god, it's ebarassing and I'm not on some power trip about it. It's just who I am, so I have to deal with all of the responsiblity that goes with it.


The complete list of people who will make it to heaven:

Mike Sherman
Retail guy (I hope I spelled it right, man. I don't want you to spend an eternitiy in hell because of a clerical error)