Coaching Staff - My biggest "?" heading into 2007

[Patler]

Man why you gotta say scary things like that. You make me get a sick feeling and have visions of opposing offenses scoring on 50+ yard plays.

You mean like in 2004 and 2006?

49, 26, 35, 37, 42, 45, 30, 43, 40, 52, 75 - yardage on some of the TD passes thrown against Green Bay in 2006.

I had successfully blocked that trauma from my memory. Thanks for reminding me.

I try to help whenever I can!

[Patler]

Re: My biggest question mark heading into the season.

Using the stats to your advantage. This isn't conclusive evidence to me that the coaches didn't make any adjustments. Maybe defensively, but I already agreed with you there. However, there were games where they couldn't run the ball in the first half and they adjusted in the second half. There were games where they tried some things in the first half in the passing game. It wasn't working, and they went to something else. We'll see. Were they great at it? Probably not. They didn't have great personnel, they ran a new running scheme, young players, had to max protect a lot. They didn't have a lot of options. But, it's not like they didn't make any adjustments in any game.

I also want to emphasize, I'm not trying to PROVE the staff is bad. The whole point of this thread is that to me they remain a big question mark after one season. They certainly did not show the ability to adjust at halftime and outscore opponents in the second half. It could be just the opposite. McCarthy was a new coach, an unknown entity as a head coach to the opponents. In 10 of 16 games the other team outscored Green Bay in the second half. That could (I'm not saying it's certain) show that once the other coaches saw what to expect from McCarthy they were able to out coach him.

I remember being frustrated in many games that nothing looked different in the second half than in the first. As a result the ability of this staff to adjust at halftime remains a big question mark in my mind. They might prove themselves to be very good at it when they have a better team. On the other hand, they may not. At this point, I don't know and they remain a question in that regard.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Re: My biggest question mark heading into the season.

I remember being frustrated in many games that nothing looked different in the second half than in the first.

I think they were extremely limited. What were they going to do? Continue to run the ball when they couldn't. Go away from max protect and get Favre beat up. I think the defensive staff has a lot to prove. I think the offensive game planning was fine for the personnel. McCarthy was limited in the adjustments he could make during the game. Hopefully, improvement in the OL, a bounce back year from the TEs, a healthy Greg Jennings, and an emerging James Jones will allow them to have more options.

[Scott Campbell]

Ask yourself this - are we better off now than when we didn't go for it against Philly on 4th and 1? Are we better off now when McCarthy reaches for the little red flag?

I guess I expect a young head coach and his staff to make a big jump from year 1 to year 2. I haven't seen anything yet to make me think that McCarthy can't grow into becoming a fine head coach. I'm definitely more concerned with our running game.

[4and12to12and4]

How could any adjustments work offensively when ten guys were blocking for Brett, and he had no one left to throw it to!!!!

[Scott Campbell]

get a room, Patler & HarveyWallbanger

Why you have your hidden cams setup?

Uhhh, they'd probably just sit on the bed, tap their feet on the floor to signal their readiness to get started, then bring out their Pro Football Stat books for an all night session of exchanging fun facts.

Not much to see.

I think these are some thoughful discussion points, and don't understand why you want to threadcrap here.

[Patler]

Re: My biggest question mark heading into the season.

I remember being frustrated in many games that nothing looked different in the second half than in the first.

I think they were extremely limited. What were they going to do? Continue to run the ball when they couldn't. Go away from max protect and get Favre beat up. I think the defensive staff has a lot to prove. I think the offensive game planning was fine for the personnel. McCarthy was limited in the adjustments he could make during the game. Hopefully, improvement in the OL, a bounce back year from the TEs, a healthy Greg Jennings, and an emerging James Jones will allow them to have more options.

That could very well be the case. I certainly hope it is. I guess I would have fewer doubts if my impression of McCarthy was that he was a dynamite O.C. before becoming the Packers head coach. I do not have that impression. He has experience as an OC, but I don't think it showed him to be a top notch coordinator. Again, he may have been a victim of the circumstances he was in. I just don't know.

After all, Schottenheimer has loads of experience as a DB coach, and I don't have a lot of confidence in that.

[MJZiggy]

Re: My biggest question mark heading into the season.

That could very well be the case. I certainly hope it is. I guess I would have fewer doubts if my impression of McCarthy was that he was a dynamite O.C. before becoming the Packers head coach. I do not have that impression. He has experience as an OC, but I don't think it showed him to be a top notch coordinator. Again, he may have been a victim of the circumstances he was in. I just don't know.

After all, Schottenheimer has loads of experience as a DB coach, and I don't have a lot of confidence in that.

I thought he was decent in NO. You don't think he did a good job down there?

[Patler]

Re: My biggest question mark heading into the season.

That could very well be the case. I certainly hope it is. I guess I would have fewer doubts if my impression of McCarthy was that he was a dynamite O.C. before becoming the Packers head coach. I do not have that impression. He has experience as an OC, but I don't think it showed him to be a top notch coordinator. Again, he may have been a victim of the circumstances he was in. I just don't know.

After all, Schottenheimer has loads of experience as a DB coach, and I don't have a lot of confidence in that.

I thought he was decent in NO. You don't think he did a good job down there?

My response that you quoted was me drifting from my own point!

The success of this staff will depend on each member fulfilling their obligations within the staff. McCarthy is not the offense of coordinator. He is the head coach. If this offense will be successful because of McCarthy's abilities as an OC, maybe the success he experienced as an OC were because of the head coaches he served under. If McCarthy is a great OC, but a bad HC, this staff will fail.

One of the issues I had with the entire staff last season was that most were "stepping up" a notch. That's not necessarily bad, but it certainly does not provide a track record on which to predict success. The entire staff was inexperienced at the jobs they were being asked to perform. Not enough was accomplished last year to reach conclusions about their abilities in their new levels of responsibility, and now this year we again have more coaches "stepping up" to higher levels of responsibility, with Philbin as the new OC and Campen responsible for the O-line.

I'm not predicting failure, I'm merely expressing my uncertainty about the overall ability of the staff. They remain a question in my mind.

[MJZiggy]

They are good questions. Thankfully, we start getting the answers this week!! Hopefully either they're up to the task or will be replaced by people who are...

I wonder though, how come the fan perception of Schottenheimer is so bad, yet he is continually employed and was staunchly defended last season...I don't get the discrepancy. Is there something we don't see as fans? Why keep him if he's so bad or conversely why do we think he's so bad if he's worth keeping?

[Patler]

Ask yourself this - are we better off now than when we didn't go for it against Philly on 4th and 1? Are we better off now when McCarthy reaches for the little red flag?

I guess I expect a young head coach and his staff to make a big jump from year 1 to year 2. I haven't seen anything yet to make me think that McCarthy can't grow into becoming a fine head coach. I'm definitely more concerned with our running game.

To answer your questions, I guess at this point I'm not sure. I HOPE we are better off in both situations, but I don't know for sure.

I too expect coaches to learn a lot in their second seasons in a new role. I also expect the staff to know better how to work with each other to accomplish the task. Overall staff coordination is a lot more complex than some may realize. After all, there are 21 different coaches involved with the players, and what each one does can impact the success of some of the other coaches. They should be better at working with one another in the second year. Even their coordination during the game should be better (like making sure the right players are on the field, which was a problem at times last year.)

If the coaching staff is top-notch, they will overcome the weakness of the running game one way or another, even if it is with controlled, short passes to replace the running game.

[Patler]

I wonder though, how come the fan perception of Schottenheimer is so bad, yet he is continually employed and was staunchly defended last season...I don't get the discrepancy. Is there something we don't see as fans? Why keep him if he's so bad or conversely why do we think he's so bad if he's worth keeping?

The fraternity of coaches is a lot stronger than you might realize. I think some truly are blind to the abilities of their friends that they hire. There really is no other explanation, other than friendship and family ties, for why some coaches continue to find jobs. They fail time and time again.

There was a list last year about Schottenheimer's coaching background, and the success of the groups he coached. It was awful, and many times it was what we saw in GB. They were better before he came and after he left. Yet he continues to find employment.

[MJZiggy]

Maybe this is something for Mad to handle while he's in town.

[4and12to12and4]

Here's a hint at how we can make better adjustments after the half ...

HAVE LESS THAN TEN GUYS STAY IN TO BLOCK FOR BRETT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Might make a bit of a difference, ya think?

[Fritz]

I wonder though, how come the fan perception of Schottenheimer is so bad, yet he is continually employed and was staunchly defended last season...I don't get the discrepancy. Is there something we don't see as fans? Why keep him if he's so bad or conversely why do we think he's so bad if he's worth keeping?

The fraternity of coaches is a lot stronger than you might realize. I think some truly are blind to the abilities of their friends that they hire. There really is no other explanation, other than friendship and family ties, for why some coaches continue to find jobs. They fail time and time again.

There was a list last year about Schottenheimer's coaching background, and the success of the groups he coached. It was awful, and many times it was what we saw in GB. They were better before he came and after he left. Yet he continues to find employment.

Schottenheimer created a dynasty with a pee-wee team he coached back in the late 70's.

On a serious note, I'm a firm believer that improved talent and a year of experience will make MM and the staff better this year.

I also think that a lack of talent last year forced MM and the OC (sounds like a band, doesn't it?) to be extremely limited in their game-planning and limited, also, the adjustments they could make at the half. The lack of experience at halfback (do people use that term any more?) worries me in this regard this year. If MM can't trust the halfback du jour (Morency? Jackson? Grant? Wynn?) to pick up a blitzer, he's going to again be limited in terms of what he can call.

On the whole, though, I think the talent has improved, and a year's experience will help, too. We shall see.