Damn Straight!

[swede]

I think our defense has been pretty darn good. The second quarter in both games was pretty poor, but other than that, they've played good football against two good offensive teams.

The last time we had an argument like this was when the forum (maybe as long ago as jso) went back and forth about whether an "average" player like Kampman was worth the money the Vikes tried to give him. He was variously described as good, above average, average, just a guy, great lockeroom guy, great motor, etc.

He then went out and had an all-pro season.

So if we're arguing about whether the defense is good, pretty good, average, above average, bend but don't break, dominant, not dominant but gutty, maybe they'll go out in the next few weeks and be so good that this momentary parsing of words becomes irrelevant.

Anyway, Harv, I have you down for "pretty darn good."

[Merlin]

You can never be happy if you always look for fault in everything and everyone.

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. However, I am quite happy. Just because it isn't the way you chose to go about things doesn't mean it doesn't work for someone else. Remember, everyone isn't like you.

[Merlin]

I would say our Defense is not good, not great, but average. That's where they are ranked right now, average. Since we have no other tangible things to rate them by, we have to go with the stats.

That's if you are dumb enough to rank a defense by yardage allowed only. Where do they rank in points allowed?

Okay, how about yards per carry? How about big plays? How about sacks? Why is it that you chose to focus on only one stat and say we are good? I don't rank our defense on yards allowed only, I look at the whole picture and it is very pedestrian. We aren't good, we are average. Points or no points, we got lucky that no one kept running the ball at us. The Eagles would have won and in the Giants game it may have effected us having the ball so much and the score. You can't give up 4.4 yards a carry and expect to not run into a team that will just pound it at you and keep your offense off the field. Stranger things have happened I guess. We will see this week if LT lights us up, I promise you the Chargers won't abandon the run.

[Partial]

I would say our Defense is not good, not great, but average. That's where they are ranked right now, average. Since we have no other tangible things to rate them by, we have to go with the stats.

That's if you are dumb enough to rank a defense by yardage allowed only. Where do they rank in points allowed?

Okay, how about yards per carry? How about big plays? How about sacks? Why is it that you chose to focus on only one stat and say we are good? I don't rank our defense on yards allowed only, I look at the whole picture and it is very pedestrian. We aren't good, we are average. Points or no points, we got lucky that no one kept running the ball at us. The Eagles would have won and in the Giants game it may have effected us having the ball so much and the score. You can't give up 4.4 yards a carry and expect to not run into a team that will just pound it at you and keep your offense off the field. Stranger things have happened I guess. We will see this week if LT lights us up, I promise you the Chargers won't abandon the run.

Woulda, shoulda, coulda. Who gives a shit? We've given up two touchdowns against two good offenses, and 13 points a game. If they keep that up, they'll have one of the most effective defenses ever and in addition to that they will be very, very tough to beat.

[Zool]

You can never be happy if you always look for fault in everything and everyone.

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. However, I am quite happy. Just because it isn't the way you chose to go about things doesn't mean it doesn't work for someone else. Remember, everyone isn't like you.

I will if you will.

[Carolina_Packer]

Optimist vs. Realist vs. Pessimist; I understand. That's kind of the continuum or gradient scale on which perceptions exist. I tend to be a hopeful realist. I think most here on this forum know what the Packers flaws are, but are hopeful they can get them squared away this season and grow as a team. Some may think it will be their achilles heel and why they will trip up this season.

I love rooting for the team, and it gives me a lot of satisfaction to do so. Their warts are obvious, but what can you do as a fan? They may not get it squared away this season, but damn, it sure is fun being 2-0 and having something to look forward to, rather than wonder what the hell is going on out there (to quote Lombardi). That may be 2 weeks from now! Just enjoy the ride and don't worry about the destination because someone else is driving the bus.

[packinpatland]

Show me anyone in Green Bay fandom, besides the guys that wear antlers to the games, who is thinking and saying that this team is a lock to win ten games.

The national media may think our rather unexpected two game win streak would cause many of us fans to recalibrate our pre-season predictions from 8-9 wins up to 10-11 wins, but they are wrong. Informed Packer fans are thrilled to be 2-0 but realistic about this team and what it has shown.

The defense has been good and plays gutty but they are neither dominant nor particularly polished.

The running game?--plug in anybody's rant here.

Special teams won the first game and Brett won the second game but we will be in major trouble without a good run game and a defense that plays great in most games.

Consequently--

If the running game straightens itself out and if the defense gets better game by game you damn betcha this is a playoff team and the national media, including John Clayton, can kiss Tarlam's arse.

(I don't want John Clayton anywhere near my arse.)

"Show me anyone in Green Bay fandom, besides the guys that wear antlers to the games, who is thinking and saying that this team is a lock to win ten games."

I think it's possible. The Packers weren't exactly favored to beat the Eagles were they? Who knows....................ON ANY GIVEN SUNDAY

[MJZiggy]

If you look in the predictions thread, there were a few of us who thought 10-6 is completely doable.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Okay, how about yards per carry? How about big plays? How about sacks? Why is it that you chose to focus on only one stat and say we are good? I don't rank our defense on yards allowed only, I look at the whole picture and it is very pedestrian. We aren't good, we are average. Points or no points, we got lucky that no one kept running the ball at us. The Eagles would have won and in the Giants game it may have effected us having the ball so much and the score. You can't give up 4.4 yards a carry and expect to not run into a team that will just pound it at you and keep your offense off the field. Stranger things have happened I guess. We will see this week if LT lights us up, I promise you the Chargers won't abandon the run.

4.4 yards/carry? Big deal. All that's gotten them is slightly better situations on 3rd down that they couldn't convert. BTW, Westbrook averaged 4.3 yards/carry--well below his 5.1 yards/carry last year and well below his 5.6 yards/carry in week 2. We don't know much about Ward, but he averaged 6.8 yards/carry in week 1. When you play two good passing offenses, you are likely going to give up a little bit in the run game--which is probably why Westbrook, Barber before, and Ward now have had such a good yards/carry averages. It didn't mean much. Also, what's the opposing QBs passer rating? Try 65. That's very good. How about the pressure? It doesn't show up in sacks, but if you watched the game, you'd notice they got good pressure in both games. I've seen good pressure, good tackling, and few coverage breakdowns. They were good in the first two games. Whether or not they struggle against San Diego is irrelevant.

[Merlin]

I will if you will.


Fortunately I do recognize this. Everyone isn't like me nor would I want them to be.

"You can never be happy if you always look for fault in everything and everyone."

It's when you make a statement directed at me that makes an assumption used as fact where anyone can see that you believe your opinion (not fact) is the way it is where people are concerned. You made the statement, it's pretty black and white as to what your opinion is. Even though as I said you are entitled to it, it's wrong.

[Merlin]

Okay, how about yards per carry? How about big plays? How about sacks? Why is it that you chose to focus on only one stat and say we are good? I don't rank our defense on yards allowed only, I look at the whole picture and it is very pedestrian. We aren't good, we are average. Points or no points, we got lucky that no one kept running the ball at us. The Eagles would have won and in the Giants game it may have effected us having the ball so much and the score. You can't give up 4.4 yards a carry and expect to not run into a team that will just pound it at you and keep your offense off the field. Stranger things have happened I guess. We will see this week if LT lights us up, I promise you the Chargers won't abandon the run.

4.4 yards/carry? Big deal. All that's gotten them is slightly better situations on 3rd down that they couldn't convert. BTW, Westbrook averaged 4.3 yards/carry--well below his 5.1 yards/carry last year and well below his 5.6 yards/carry in week 2. We don't know much about Ward, but he averaged 6.8 yards/carry in week 1. When you play two good passing offenses, you are likely going to give up a little bit in the run game--which is probably why Westbrook, Barber before, and Ward now have had such a good yards/carry averages. It didn't mean much. Also, what's the opposing QBs passer rating? Try 65. That's very good. How about the pressure? It doesn't show up in sacks, but if you watched the game, you'd notice they got good pressure in both games. I've seen good pressure, good tackling, and few coverage breakdowns. They were good in the first two games. Whether or not they struggle against San Diego is irrelevant.

I don't see it that way. Not at all. The line and the pointof attack vs. the run is horrible. The LB's are getting blown out of the play by the OL who should never be at the 2nd tier. I don't consider the Eagles or the Giants good passing offenses. Sure we had pressure. Sure the QB ratings sucked. Why did the Eagles try to throw so much when their ground game WAS getting the job donw? The Giants went to the pass to early as well. Their ground game was doing just fine. QB ratings, pressure, doesn't matter. We did not stop the run. I agree to disagree Harv.

[Zool]

I will if you will.


Fortunately I do recognize this. Everyone isn't like me nor would I want them to be.

"You can never be happy if you always look for fault in everything and everyone."

It's when you make a statement directed at me that makes an assumption used as fact where anyone can see that you believe your opinion (not fact) is the way it is where people are concerned. You made the statement, it's pretty black and white as to what your opinion is. Even though as I said you are entitled to it, it's wrong.

You give opinions stated as fact as well. Everyone does, but I'm trying.

[Merlin]

Sometimes, but I do try and watch it to make sure I get the facts in there. I am not the world's more eloquent writer and sometimes through haste I miss supporting crucial points to my arguments. Again, I am always looking for ways to get better. Just by posting here I can catch some things and make them sound the way they are meant to by the response I am given. When it comes to name calling though, I just don't give a shit at that point and I say what I am thinking. Not that that is the case here.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Just by glancing at the season stats at NFL.com, there's not a lot of difference between San Diego and Green Bay on paper. Does that mean the Packers are as good as the Chargers? Or that the Chargers are as bad as the Packers?

I think it means it's kind of early in the year to rely on stats to prove much of anything at this stage.

We'll see Sunday what both teams are made of.

[swede]

Show me anyone in Green Bay fandom, besides the guys that wear antlers to the games, who is thinking and saying that this team is a lock to win ten games...

...Informed Packer fans are thrilled to be 2-0 but realistic about this team and what it has shown...

Consequently--

If the running game straightens itself out and if the defense gets better game by game you damn betcha this is a playoff team and the national media, including John Clayton, can kiss Tarlam's arse.

"Show me anyone in Green Bay fandom, besides the guys that wear antlers to the games, who is thinking and saying that this team is a lock to win ten games."

I think it's possible. The Packers weren't exactly favored to beat the Eagles were they? Who knows....................ON ANY GIVEN SUNDAY

I'm just saying the lack of a reliable rushing game is going to be effectively exploited by good teams if it does not get fixed, and the defense needs to play at an even higher level if we are going to flat-out win games against teams like Chicago, Denver, and San Diego.

The most exciting thing about this season is the 2-0 start is here and yet there is a kind of suspense yet among the fans and among the league as we wait to find out for certain if this team is on a steep growth curve (watch out NFC-North if that's the case) or just an exciting team with some lopsided strengths and weaknesses (hello 8-8 if that is the case).