"HARRELL, WAITING AND WATCHING""

[Bretsky]

It's not so much a rip on the Packers as it is a rip on 3T. Before the pick, after the pick, it doesn't really matter. There are not very many supporters of taking Harrell in the first round. More over, there were more pressing needs at the time and once again 3T did what he wanted and not what was in the best interests of the team. If we go 4-0 or 19-0 or 3-13, it doesn't matter. It was a wasted pick then and it is a wasted pick now. That's why I asked how much his contract was worth. How much on the hook are we for this guy and for how many years if we end up cutting him? There were much better options on the board and 3T took the worst option available. It isn't helping us win games sure, but we added depth at the only position we had depth. And people call this guy smart?

If Harrell makes the Pro Bowl in 3 years was it a wasted pick? and coming back and saying it won't happen is an invalid answer. So is saying he won't crack the lineup.

If Harrell does not make the pro bowl in three years will you call it a wasted pick ? Just trying to get you to say something on record we can use down the road too

[Bretsky]

That's invalid. I want an answer to the question: if Harrell makes the pro bowl in 3 years is he a wasted pick?

No

Now you answer

[Bretsky]

Harrell can ride the pine for a year if that is what it takes.

His two predecessors at Tenn are the two most dominant defensive tackles in the league. If I remember correctly, it took Haynesworth 2-3 years before he became a stud.

Let's look at this argument again in 4 years. Give the kid some time.

Both were good enough to play right away. Henderson was better at first; but both were good enough to wear a uniform on game day from the start.

Isn't this great !! All this fluff talk. Feels good to argue again

[HarveyWallbangers]

He doesn't have to make the Pro Bowl. He has to be a good player. A guy on the level of a Nick Barnett at DT. I'd say the chances of getting a Pro Bowl player at pick #17 are way below 50%.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Both were good enough to play right away. Henderson was better at first; but both were good enough to wear a uniform on game day from the start.

Isn't this great !! All this fluff talk. Feels good to argue again

Were they both coming off a torn triceps? An injury that doctors said in a JSO article (long before training camp started) would take a year to regain full strength from. Were they able to workout in the offseason leading up to their rookie years?

[MJZiggy]

It's not so much a rip on the Packers as it is a rip on 3T. Before the pick, after the pick, it doesn't really matter. There are not very many supporters of taking Harrell in the first round. More over, there were more pressing needs at the time and once again 3T did what he wanted and not what was in the best interests of the team. If we go 4-0 or 19-0 or 3-13, it doesn't matter. It was a wasted pick then and it is a wasted pick now. That's why I asked how much his contract was worth. How much on the hook are we for this guy and for how many years if we end up cutting him? There were much better options on the board and 3T took the worst option available. It isn't helping us win games sure, but we added depth at the only position we had depth. And people call this guy smart?

If Harrell makes the Pro Bowl in 3 years was it a wasted pick? and coming back and saying it won't happen is an invalid answer. So is saying he won't crack the lineup.

If Harrell does not make the pro bowl in three years will you call it a wasted pick ? Just trying to get you to say something on record we can use down the road too

No. In my book he doesn't need to make the Pro Bowl. If offenses worry about him being in there, that's what I want. How many Pro Bowls has Al Harris been to, but I wouldn't call him a waste either. Offenses worry about him. I want them to worry about every guy we put on the field. Will that happen, probably not, but it's something to shoot for.

[Bretsky]

Both were good enough to play right away. Henderson was better at first; but both were good enough to wear a uniform on game day from the start.

Isn't this great !! All this fluff talk. Feels good to argue again

Were they both coming off a torn triceps? An injury that doctors said in a JSO article (long before training camp started) would take a year to regain full strength from. Were they able to workout in the offseason leading up to their rookie years?

Ted Thompson said from the start their doctors had examined JH and they were fully confident the injury was well enough for him to be in the rotation right from the start. And that's just the rotation; I'm sure they would have liked more

So either they were incompetent/completely wrong or JH has underperformed

[HarveyWallbangers]

Ted Thompson said from the start their doctors had examined JH and they were fully confident the injury was well enough for him to be in the rotation right from the start. And that's just the rotation; I'm sure they would have liked more

So either they were incompetent/completely wrong or JH has underperformed

Let's see the quote. Knowing Thompson, I'd bet he said something like the doctors think he should be ready by the start of the season. I'm sure they are disappointed in how he came into camp out of shape. That doesn't mean we can write him off as a bust yet. Are people who are ready to write him off thinking that he won't get in shape and doesn't have the physical tools to be a good player? If so, I'm not sure how that could be judged at this point. He was playing with one good arm in camp. Plus, he was nowhere near as bad in those games as some made him out to be--at least from when I watched him closely. At the very least, he looks to be a guy that isn't easy to move in the middle.

[oregonpackfan]

As far as Harrell is concerned, I have two "Red Flags" waving about his value as a #1 pick:

1. He did not show up in shape for camp. All draftees, be they #1 choices or free agents need to report to camp in playing shape. It should be a sign of a commitment to making the team. I consider it enabliing his laziness by claiming he is "Playing himself into shape."

2. He is a #1 pick who cannot even crack the rotating group of 10 defensive linemen. Many #1 picks not only start but they make a playing contribution their first year. Sure, some players take 2-3 years to develop. A #1 pick who does not even suit up alarms me.

Yes, we need to give Harrell more time to develop. For now, I consider Harrell a "Wasted draft choice" until he proves otherwise.

[Partial]

Harrell can ride the pine for a year if that is what it takes.

His two predecessors at Tenn are the two most dominant defensive tackles in the league. If I remember correctly, it took Haynesworth 2-3 years before he became a stud.

Let's look at this argument again in 4 years. Give the kid some time.

Both were good enough to play right away. Henderson was better at first; but both were good enough to wear a uniform on game day from the start.

Isn't this great !! All this fluff talk. Feels good to argue again

But we have a phenominal line already. Plus, they're trying to play him 20 lbs heavier than he has ever played. Cut the kid some slack. I suspect he'll be playing next year.

[Carolina_Packer]

As far as Harrell is concerned, I have two "Red Flags" waving about his value as a #1 pick:

1. He did not show up in shape for camp. All draftees, be they #1 choices or free agents need to report to camp in playing shape. It should be a sign of a commitment to making the team. I consider it enabliing his laziness by claiming he is "Playing himself into shape."

2. He is a #1 pick who cannot even crack the rotating group of 10 defensive linemen. Many #1 picks not only start but they make a playing contribution their first year. Sure, some players take 2-3 years to develop. A #1 pick who does not even suit up alarms me.

Yes, we need to give Harrell more time to develop. For now, I consider Harrell a "Wasted draft choice" until he proves otherwise.

I agree OPF. Obviously all Packer fans can agree that they hope Harrell lives up to his promise, or at least his position of being the #16 pick of the draft. He can at some point, but it's just not working that way right now. I have no idea what they are seeing from him in practice now that the season has started. Is he still limited physically by the injury? Who knows.

I think as of right now, the fans who say that we could have drafted someone who would have been more immediately impactful (especially on offense) are right. That doesn't mean they don't like Harrell or wish him any ill during his development. I think people equate first rounder with immediate and impactful contributor, and he has been neither. Can he still have impact? Yes, and we'll see.

[Fritz]

I knew Jamaal Reynolds, Sir, and Harrell is no Jamaal Reynolds.

Relax. Is Bowe better at this point than James Jones? Me, I'm in the I'd-a-rather-had-a-good-corner. But who? Leon Hall was gone, wasn't he? And I'm still not a big Greg Olsen fan, as far as TE's go.

Man. Give Harrell a year, at least. As someone else noted, TT's first draft is looking better and better with every passing game.

[RashanGary]

Here is what is going to happen:

1. People will sit around talking like they know what could have and should have been done. They'll call names, place blame and continue on in their ignorance

2. Harrell will adjust both physically and technically to the game and like many Dlineman (Mario Williams for example), he'll have a great 2nd year.

3. Everyone will forget what big mouthed idiots they are and pretend like they are on board and happy with the pick.


It goes hand in hand with the whole forum pattern

1. Bash Ted when you have no clue what will happen
2. Ted proves to be better than imagined
3. Jump on board like you've always been there

Why should it go any other way and why should people ever question their know it all ways? I'll answer; because you people are wrong almost every time you open your mouths. I'd say do yourselves a favor and put a foot in your mouths becuase odds are it will be placed there over the course of time and it will probably be less comfortable when someone else does it for you.

[oregonpackfan]

Here is what is going to happen:

1. People will sit around talking like they know what could have and should have been done. They'll call names, place blame and continue on in their ignorance

2. Harrell will adjust both physically and technically to the game and like many Dlineman (Mario Williams for example), he'll have a great 2nd year.

3. Everyone will forget what big mouthed idiots they are and pretend like they are on board and happy with the pick.


It goes hand in hand with the whole forum pattern

1. Bash Ted when you have no clue what will happen
2. Ted proves to be better than imagined
3. Jump on board like you've always been there

Why should it go any other way and why should people ever question their know it all ways? I'll answer; because you people are wrong almost every time you open your mouths. I'd say do yourselves a favor and put a foot in your mouths becuase odds are it will be placed there over the course of time and it will probably be less comfortable when someone else does it for you.

JH,

Were you born with a condescending, arrogant attitude or is it something you have worked hard to develop over the years?

[RashanGary]

How can you not condiscend a bit with some of these people? They just keep going down the same paths with the same bad results. As Rush would say, it's the definition of insanity.