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  • "Run Game Never Hits Ground"

    Run game never hits the ground
    McCarthy largely abandons trying to use ineffective rush
    By BOB McGINN
    bmcginn@journalsentinel.com
    Posted: Oct. 14, 2007

    Actions spoke louder than words Sunday afternoon when it came to Mike McCarthy's regard for the Green Bay Packers' ground game.
    Dared to run by a Washington Redskins defense that lined up its safeties as deep as 22 yards all day long, McCarthy almost didn't even try in his team's 17-14 victory at Lambeau Field.

    Nine times in the first half the Packers encountered first and 10 in non-hurry situations. Eight times they tried to pass. On the one time that they did run, DeShawn Wynn gained 1 on a draw play.

    For the day, the Packers rushed 20 times for 56 yards (2.8 yards per carry), just about par for the course for a team now averaging 65.7 per game and 3.26 per carry.

    "You guys probably get tired of hearing me say this but running the football is about attitude and fundamentals," McCarthy said. "We need to improve both."

    McCarthy came out winging it on the first four plays from scrimmage and never really stopped until the middle of the fourth quarter.

    Protecting a three-point lead, the Packers did manage one first down rushing before a 2-yard gain by Vernand Morency prompted McCarthy to call a pass, which was intercepted.

    Given another chance with just less than 3 minutes left, Wynn went minus-2, 5 and no gain on three straight carries and the Packers gave the Redskins another chance.

    "How can you not be (worried)?" Brett Favre said. "We needed to run the ball and run the clock out at the end. We needed to do that in several situations this year.

    "We need to force people out of Cover 2. They're playing Cover 2, which is so difficult to throw against."

    Some of the Redskins' defenders seemed amazed that McCarthy didn't attack their seven-man fronts.

    "It's hard to believe they didn't try a little bit more," said defensive end Phillip Daniels, who, as a member of the Chicago Bears from 2000-'03, had to deal with Ahman Green. "I'm not used to them like that. I'm used to them running the ball."

    Ditto for linebacker Randall Godfrey, who made his 146th start.

    "I thought (McCarthy) was a little more balanced than what he's been doing," Godfrey said. "We were trying to make sure they didn't pass all over the field on us like they've done in the past. I think Wynn is going to be a pretty good back. They've just got to be more balanced."

    Through six games, the Packers have run on 31.9% of their plays. For a full season, the team's low for running the ball was 36.7% in 1990. That's when Michael Haddix led coach Lindy Infante's third club in rushing with 311 yards and a 3.2 mark.

    Wynn is on pace for 539 yards.

    "But No. 4 (Favre) is going to make plays, you know?" Godfrey said. "I'm thinking New England. I've seen them pass every down."

    A few times, safety LaRon Landry would creep down near the line of scrimmage and Favre would throw a slant into the area the rookie vacated.

    "Right now, we know that's the running play for them," said Gregg Williams, the Redskins' assistant head coach-defense. "Possibly the numbers get skewed and Mike takes heat because he's not running enough, but he calls a run and Brett sees they don't have the numbers right and he puts the ball in the receiver's hands. Going into this breakdown, he's done that 15 to 18 times where they had runs called and he (passed).

    "Brett just pops up and throws the slant when everybody else is run blocking. We know that's their 'nod' game, that's their slant game. We did a good job tonight most times not letting him have his first read."

    Veteran linebacker London Fletcher, 32, goes back to the days when Dorsey Levens was behind Favre.
    "Those quick slants and stuff like that, those are like handoffs," Fletcher said. "You look at the stat sheet and see they don't have many rushes, but think about when they have called runs and they throw the quick slants. And they're getting more yards than they would have if they had tried to run.

    "No. 4, put it in his hands. Right now, they're playing to their strengths."

    How long can the Packers survive without a ground attack?

    "Like every team, you like to have balance and all that," veteran guard Pete Kendall said. "But the fact of the matter is, they're doing enough offensively to complement that defense, which has been playing at a very high level."

    Whatever McCarthy does is fine with Morency.

    "We're winning," he said. "What are you going to do? Sacrifice the No. 1 passing game to satisfy critics and people like that? Granted, I want the ball. We all want the ball. But you've got to go with what's working."

    And right now, that certainly isn't the run game.
    TERD Buckley over Troy Vincent, Robert Ferguson over Chris Chambers, Kevn King instead of TJ Watt, and now, RICH GANNON, over JIMMY JIMMY JIMMY LEONARD. Thank you FLOWER

  • #2
    I think MM did a fine job Sunday; if you know you can't run it's better to admit it then continuously try it and fail.

    If Favre makes a couple deep throws he should make Sunday all is well.

    Regardless a win is a win
    TERD Buckley over Troy Vincent, Robert Ferguson over Chris Chambers, Kevn King instead of TJ Watt, and now, RICH GANNON, over JIMMY JIMMY JIMMY LEONARD. Thank you FLOWER

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Bretsky
      I think MM did a fine job Sunday; if you know you can't run it's better to admit it then continuously try it and fail.
      I would agree for the most part. What bothered me was that he did not really seem to even try to see if running would work. Washington was DARING us to run. At that point, you should at least give it a couple chances to see what happens. To have only 1 rush on first down (especially when it is a draw) seems to me like never giving the running game a chance at all...and I do disagree with that.

      If you try it, and it isn't working...great, throw the ball 50 times. If you never even try it at all when the other team is focused on coverage? You need to be able to make proper in game adjustments to that.
      My signature has NUDITY in it...whatcha gonna do?

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      • #4
        M3 does need to give the run game more of an effort, even if you don't have a lot of faith in it. I would have to think that if he gave it more of an effort the ground game would get in gear and take off. I don't think the Pack needs to have a great running game to go deep into the playoffs but good enough to keep defense suspect and not always expect the pass.

        Comment


        • #5
          Many are wondering when the lack of a running game will catch up with the Packers. In terms of offensive production, perhaps it already has. Over the last 6 quarters, the Packer offense has produced 13 points. Teams are now daring the Packers to run the ball. It will be very difficult for the Packers to throw the ball down the field as long as teams are playing their safeties deep. I'm not suggesting all doom and gloom here. The combination of Favre and this defense will make the Packers competitive in just about every game. However, for this team to get better, they will have to develop a running threat.
          I can't run no more
          With that lawless crowd
          While the killers in high places
          Say their prayers out loud
          But they've summoned, they've summoned up
          A thundercloud
          They're going to hear from me - Leonard Cohen

          Comment


          • #6
            I think the real problem is MM not really giving the run game a chance. When Brett gets to the line and the LB's are 7+ yards off the line, we should be running. The attempts are just not there.

            I like Wynn, I think he could be a decent back. He may not break the big one, but 4-6 yards isn't a reach.


            On a side note, the run play the Packers seemed to run alot is a stretch play to the right behind Moll & Tausch.......this is a slllllooooowwww developing play, which against a fast defense like Redskins gets caught.....what about the quick hits between guard & center?
            If you don't like me....bite me...
            ....want some, come get some!

            Comment


            • #7
              I agree..it seems like some of the plays are really slow to develop, and it can be hard to sustain blocks for that long. I'd like to see more quick hitters up the middle by Wynn...he's a big guy at 230lbs. Seemed like we had some success with that early against CHI. If other teams are playing the cover 2, why not try that again?

              I don't think you can try 1 or 2 runs and then abandon it for the pass. (OK, so that's probably not what other posters meant, but still...) Favre is very good, but he's still a gambler...I'd rather him have 28-35 attempts than 40-50...he's likely to pull a bonehead play, and a running game eats the clock and rests GB's D. Teams are going to play their corners inside and jam at the line with a cover 2 shell to disrupt the passing game...especially those slants. GB needs to develop that running game (and fast) to make teams pay for playing their LBs and safeties deep.

              Comment


              • #8
                This is the first time all season I'm going to care about the run. We have a bye week to work on this stuff and when we come back we play Denver. This is the worst run defense and the best pass defense we've played. We have GOT to run it here.
                70% of the Earth is covered by water. The rest is covered by Al Harris.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The Packers need to take more advantage of getting receivers in motion at the snap to avoid jams and use more creative routes (crossing patterns, outs) to counter the defenses tendency to look for slants. On Favre's one INT, that is precisely why it was open when Favre pump faked...the defenses are SITTING on the slants now, so the offense has to be able to take advantage of that with double moves and creative routes from slot receivers/TEs.

                  What I don't like is passing, passing, passing...but not putting Favre in the shotgun most of the time to do it. If you are going to basically give up on the ground game, then at least put Favre in the most advantageous position to pick apart the defense. Forget play action...IT AIN'T GONNA WORK right now. Pump fakes will work much better than play action right now.
                  My signature has NUDITY in it...whatcha gonna do?

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                  • #10
                    The defenses are keying the slants but we aren't running them either. Maybe that's why MM has resorted to the fakes. I know that in many situations Favre could have gone to the slant yesterday, especially when the LB's were coming but he didn't. Maybe MM took some control away from Favre? The offense looks like the Hyde has shown up.
                    "Once the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the Republic.”
                    – Benjamin Franklin

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If their safeties were always so deep, where was our middle of the cover 2 passing game? We hit one with Donald Lee and then we seemed to quit trying to make the safeties come up and cover the middle. Why not try and go back to Lee? He seems to have some athleticism. Bubba's hands are mixed. Sometimes he has stone hands, but on that obvious push out where he caught the ball, it was an amazing play. I can't believe we didn't challenge that no call. I wonder what McCarthy and staff was thinking when their people saw the replay. I was yelling challenge, and they went to commercial and I was half expecting them to have thrown the challenge flag by the time the game came back on. Never materialized.

                      I went out to find something about challenges; when you can and can't. This was intereresting, but definitely not super-enlightening. Anyone else have a link to some good info on when you can/can't challenge?

                      "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." -Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Carolina_Packer
                        Sometimes he has stone hands, but on that obvious push out where he caught the ball, it was an amazing play. I can't believe we didn't challenge that no call.
                        You can't challenge that call. It was a judgment call that can't be reviewed. Personally, I hate that rule. I think you should have to get both feet down regardless. Leaving it up to the ref's "discretion" is a bad idea IMO.

                        I would've thrown the red flag simply to have the refs come over so that I could publically ream them in front of 70,000 people for that AND the lame holding penalties that previously had cost the Packers a TD...when the Packer DL was getting held and tackled all day with few flags.
                        My signature has NUDITY in it...whatcha gonna do?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          There was no doubt in my mind that Franks had the TD. I don't know why it can't be reviewed. It can be reviewed if the official doesn't call it a TD with a push out or calls it a non-catch. Once he says he wouldn't have caught it in bounds then it's a dead issue. It was a horrible call and a great catch by Franks. I thought MM called a timeout after that play for that reason?
                          "Once the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the Republic.”
                          – Benjamin Franklin

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I'd say the running game never hit the ground! Morency just does not have it yet...he may never or he may still be feeling the effect of one of his numerous injuries and that is why he looks so hesitant in some situations. Wynn looks better and looks to have no fear but some of the plays that are called are doomed from the start....its like MM thinks we have LT back there. What the hell kind of a scheme are they trying to run anyway? The ZBS scheme that I want to see is the one that beat us in the fucking SB! Ya ya...I know...... we don't have TD.

                            A few timely drops and the D coming up big won us the game yesterday...even a hint of a running game will make it easier.
                            C.H.U.D.

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                            • #15
                              Morency hasn't been that bad--especially in the passing game. He had a couple of cuts he missed in this game. Wynn is such a plodder. He reminds me of Najeh. He's got some power and some speed, but he isn't good when he has to try to cut in the backfield. He's good when he gets a head of steam. Wynn is a good pass protector, but he has terrible hands, so it's kind of catch-22 to have him in on passing plays.
                              "There's a lot of interest in the draft. It's great. But quite frankly, most of the people that are commenting on it don't know anything about what they are talking about."--Ted Thompson

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