Bubba in...

[Merlin]

The rule is fine, he got one foot in and then got pushed out. The official made the wrong call. What should be changed is whether or not it is reviewable.

[Rastak]

The rule is fine, he got one foot in and then got pushed out. The official made the wrong call. What should be changed is whether or not it is reviewable.

Why? It's the same damn thing as live....you DON'T KNOW in most cases if he would or not. You might in this case, I didn;t see the play buy usually the guy is ALREADY HEADING OUT.

[AtlPackFan]

Re: Bubba in...

[
Pereira said it is the hardest thing for an official to judge because there are three things to consider and doesn't want it to be reviewable because of the call's difficulty.

This is the part that I don't get. I would think that the more difficult the call is to make, the more reviewable it should be, not to second-guess the ref but to admit it's a tough call and make sure the correct call was made. Seems like their trying to save the line judge's pride over making the correct call.

I think the point is that its a judgement call. You can never know 100% sure the receiver would have come down in bounds, you can never know the intent of the defender.

However, for example a "both feet in bounds call" there is something concrete to look at. Your not surmising were both feet in bounds, you can see it. Of course there are always going to be calls that you can't tell...they are either too close even for close ups and slo-mo -or- the view is obscured but their is no surmising, no assuming. Either he has both feet down or he doesn't.

Anyway, I don't disagree with you MJ, I just think that is the NFL's thinking.

If you want to see the interview, go to NFL.com/videos, select "Official Review" and then click the Oct. 17 clip.


So...what is it everyone? Would Bubba have come down in bounds. I played that clip over and over again and I'm not sure (of course I old and feeble and can't see very well anymore ). IMO, it certainly was an overt push (defender never turned back for the ball). In fact, I though Bubba was mugged and they could have called interference. And, the third criteria of coming down with possession certainly was satisfied.

Obviously, it doesn't matter...whats done is done. Just curious what everyone thinks.

[mraynrand]

what a stupid rule.

no way... that rule should stay...

lets say im covering you and I KNOW YOU WILL GET YOUR FEET DOWN...

If there is no rule, fk you, ill just push you out... Sorry only one foot in, no catch...

A lot more defenders would use the sideline to their advantage and push people out every second... There would be no more sideline catches in the air because people will just get pushed out...

I like the rule, it defiantly needs to stay...

Even further, why not just do what Favre is doing to Driver in your avatar - any time you can, when the receiver goes up in the air, just carry him out of bounds without letting him come down - sorry you didn't touch both feet inbounds - no catch!

[Rastak]

what a stupid rule.

no way... that rule should stay...

lets say im covering you and I KNOW YOU WILL GET YOUR FEET DOWN...

If there is no rule, fk you, ill just push you out... Sorry only one foot in, no catch...

A lot more defenders would use the sideline to their advantage and push people out every second... There would be no more sideline catches in the air because people will just get pushed out...

I like the rule, it defiantly needs to stay...

Even further, why not just do what Favre is doing to Driver in your avatar - any time you can, when the receiver goes up in the air, just carry him out of bounds without letting him come down - sorry you didn't touch both feet inbounds - no catch!

So don't hang the damn thing up in the air on the sideline, right?

[KYPack]

This from JSO:

The official that ruled tight end Bubba Franks out of bounds on a fourth-quarter reception in the end zone against the Washington Redskins on Sunday was "really wrong," according to Mike Pereira, the vice president of NFL officiating. With 10:06 left and the Packers leading, 17-14, quarterback Brett Favre threw a pass to the right corner of the end zone from the 8-yard line intended for Franks.

He caught the ball but was only able to get one foot in bounds before Redskins cornerback Fred Smoot pushed Franks out of bounds. The official ruled the pass incomplete because, in his view, Franks would not have gotten two feet down inbounds without contact.

"Clearly Bubba Franks would have come down in bounds and it would have been a catch," Pereira said Wednesday night on the NFL Network. "I think we were really wrong in making that judgment."

What does this get ya? There should be some kind of penalty for crews that err like this!

[HarveyWallbangers]

Everybody already knows I hate the rule. As an official, I couldn't imagine having to make that call. To me, if the defender is close enough to a receiver to push him out (after he catches the ball, he can't do it before because that would be interference), then I say great defensive play.

[LEWCWA]

Like I posted in another thread. Get rid of the rule. If your in the air and the DB can knock you out of bounds, tough shit. your out! The O gets all the rules in their favor anyhow. This takes all judgement out of the call. Either your in or you aint!!!!

[LEWCWA]

I agree with Harvey and we all know he is always right!

[mraynrand]

So don't hang the damn thing up in the air on the sideline, right?

Uh, no. What if the receiver goes up for the ball five yards from the sideline, catches it in traffic and is prevented from putting two feet down by the defender(s) who carry him out of bounds? Would you then argue that a scrum should ensue with offensive players trying to drag their guy to the ground before the other team can carry him off the field? It seems absurd, but that's what the rule is for - to prevent obvious cases that would appear to any fan as being grossly 'unfair.' Of course with any judgment rule there will be gray areas - in this case, as the catch gets closer to the sideline, judging the call becomes more difficult.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Uh, no. What if the receiver goes up for the ball five yards from the sideline, catches it in traffic and is prevented from putting two feet down by the defender(s) who carry him out of bounds? Would you then argue that a scrum should ensue with offensive players trying to drag their guy to the ground before the other team can carry him off the field? It seems absurd, but that's what the rule is for - to prevent obvious cases that would appear to any fan as being grossly 'unfair.' Of course with any judgment rule there will be gray areas - in this case, as the catch gets closer to the sideline, judging the call becomes more difficult.

College has the rule. How often do you see this play?

[LEWCWA]

If your carrying a guy the play is called dead not too difficult.

[HarveyWallbangers]

From the JSO:

Forceouts are not open to replay review. If it were up to Pereira, forceouts would not be allowed at all. He feels that if a player is forced out of bounds, regardless of whether they would have come down or not, the pass should be incomplete.

"It's the toughest call we have to make because there are so many variables," Pereira said.

[mraynrand]

Uh, no. What if the receiver goes up for the ball five yards from the sideline, catches it in traffic and is prevented from putting two feet down by the defender(s) who carry him out of bounds? Would you then argue that a scrum should ensue with offensive players trying to drag their guy to the ground before the other team can carry him off the field? It seems absurd, but that's what the rule is for - to prevent obvious cases that would appear to any fan as being grossly 'unfair.' Of course with any judgment rule there will be gray areas - in this case, as the catch gets closer to the sideline, judging the call becomes more difficult.

College has the rule. How often do you see this play?

That was an extreme example to illustrate a point. If the guy was being carried, then it would be a judgment call by the ref whether he was being carried (ply is dead) or pushed (play is live) out of bounds. At some point, a guy catching the ball in bounds who is pushed/carried out will be subject to a judgment call by a ref - and on the borderline of this judgment, fans will complain, just as they do with pass interference.

BTW, what is the college rule you refer to?

[4and12to12and4]

You know the funny thing about all this discussion? It doesn't matter if he was pushed out or not, because the defender had his back to the ball facing Bubba and jumped up and pushed him in the chest just before the ball was caught. That's called interference. This hasn't even been discussed. There was blatant interference on that play. He shoved him before the ball arrived. I don't like the force out rule in general, but if you didn't see the play, Bubba was going straight up, he was not heading out of bounds and would've for sure got his second foot down, he was legitimately pushed out. But, at least we won, just remember, if we got that TD, the one to JJ on the bs holding call, and Crosby hits the two field goals he missed, we win 37-14. As bad as our offense looked, we still almost blew them out. That's crazy.