Official Gameday Thread: Packers @ Chiefs

[FritzDontBlitz]

Bigby is becoming a big liability lately.

we should resign him while his value is "low".

hahahaha

Hmmm something tells me we better hold onto this
young man, the backfield isn't getting any younger.
He just needs a little more confidence.

That, and the ability to learn how to play the ball when it is in the air

The most fascinating thing to me is: Bigby can't cover his own Grandma, he makes a ton of boneheaded plays reminiscent of Marquand Manuel and we still win 7 out of 8 games.

Just unreal.

[4and12to12and4]

I just hope he's smarter than he looks, or we're in trouble.

[4and12to12and4]

Well guys and gals, I'm retiring for the night, I had a blast chatting with you all, it makes game day so much more fun, I'm so glad I found this forum. We're 7-1. I still can't believe it. It's just so unreal. Well, to all a good night, GO Pack.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Kudos to the fans also.

Some support: By rough estimate, about 10% to 15% of the crowd of 78,988 fans were pro-Packers.

Adam Teicher, who has covered the team for the Kansas City Star since 1993, said there was "nothing close" to that many fans backing the visiting team during his tenure.

His colleague, Randy Covitz, has been covering the Chiefs since '86 and basically agreed. Covitz said he was certain there had not been such cheering for the visitor since '89.

And Doug Tucker of the Associated Press, who has covered the team for 30 years, said "this was an unusually large number" and had never been topped by a visitor from the NFC.

"That never happened in my days here," said coach Mike McCarthy, a Chiefs' assistant from 1993-'98. "You saw a few here and there, but our crowd today... you could see 'em in the stadium."

"In my years here, it was a sea of red, man. They stood up the whole game. You never saw opposing people like today."

Tackle Chad Clifton estimated that a third were for the Packers.

"For a while, when they were on offense, it got real loud," he said. "Our fans did. I couldn't believe it. That was surprising."

[Joemailman]

Bigby isn't in there for his coverage skills. He's in there to give the defense a physical presence the Packers haven't had at safety since Butler. There are a lot of good strong safeties whose coverage skills are less than outstanding.

[4and12to12and4]

Bigby isn't in there for his coverage skills. He's in there to give the defense a physical presence the Packers haven't had at safety since Butler. There are a lot of good strong safeties whose coverage skills are less than outstanding.

I agree, and in some ways I will take that weakness over the ability to hit hard and tackle wellk and bring that "mean streak" to the field. We need guys like that. And, while his covering skills aren't great, he still is usually only a step behind, which makes me think that once he gets his legs in the NFL he has higher potential, and could evolve into a good cover guy also. Time will tell. But, for right now, I love seeing him flying around the field like a linebacker possessed.

[The Leaper]

Bigby isn't in there for his coverage skills. He's in there to give the defense a physical presence the Packers haven't had at safety since Butler. There are a lot of good strong safeties whose coverage skills are less than outstanding.

Then we are philosophically challenged.

We have our CBs playing press coverage on the edges...meaning they can be exposed deep from time to time. We need safeties that can cover a lot of ground, ESPECIALLY defending the passing game. They need to be instinctual and aware.

LeRoy Butler might have been a physical presence...but he could also play coverage like nobody's business. The guy also knew what the offense was trying to do at all times and anticipated what he needed to do. Bigby getting beat at the end of the first half was unacceptable. It was obvious Washington would take shots at the end zone. Bigby's one responsibility is to prevent someone getting behind him...and he couldn't do it.

Bigby is a fucking liability back there in coverage...and that is simply unacceptable in today's NFL, where teams increasingly have more and more resources to attack that kind of liability. You will continue to see Bigby get exposed more and more going forward as teams take advantage of his inability to do anything other than play the run.

There is a reason I was adamant that we should take Reggie Nelson in the draft this year. We need a physical presence who can also make plays in coverage. Bigby is a joke in coverage. He has zero ability to identify the ball and make a play on it. He merely plays the man he is supposed to cover...usually one step behind. That will get a flag 100% of the time.

[Carolina_Packer]

Bigby isn't in there for his coverage skills. He's in there to give the defense a physical presence the Packers haven't had at safety since Butler. There are a lot of good strong safeties whose coverage skills are less than outstanding.

Then we are philosophically challenged.

We have our CBs playing press coverage on the edges...meaning they can be exposed deep from time to time. We need safeties that can cover a lot of ground, ESPECIALLY defending the passing game.

LeRoy Butler might have been a physical presence...but he could also play coverage like nobody's business. Bigby is a fucking liability back there in coverage...and that is simply unacceptable in today's NFL, where teams increasingly have more and more resources to attack that kind of liability. You will continue to see Bigby get exposed more and more going forward as teams take advantage of his inability to do anything other than play the run.

There is a reason I was adamant that we should take Reggie Nelson in the draft this year. We need a physical presence who can also make plays in coverage. Bigby is a joke in coverage. He has zero ability to identify the ball and make a play on it. He merely plays the man he is supposed to cover...usually one step behind.

I didn't get to see the game yesterday, but I was thinking about Bigby and our young roster, and it would seem the upside to a young roster is energy, but the downside is experience/confidence. Bigby has never handled the duties as a full-time starter as a pro. While it is great that he's getting his chance, it's also good to remember that he's still learning and growing as a first year starter. We have Butler's entire career to look back over, while Bigby is just getting started, really. Who knows if/how he'll improve, but that's the potential downside and X factor to our "youth movement". When crunch time, the pressure of all pressure is on, how will they respond to the situation? In a few positions like SS, we simply don't know, and we have a very small sampling. I wonder what Bigby will become in the league. I wonder if he can shore up his problem areas. Perhaps not this season, but in the future. We have to live with that if we are turning over roster spots regularly with young guys. Some roster spots are set, but not all, obviously.

[The Leaper]

Bigby has never handled the duties as a full-time starter as a pro. While it is great that he's getting his chance, it's also good to remember that he's still learning and growing as a first year starter.

When it comes to playing a ball in the air, it isn't really a learned trait. It is something you either naturally have or you don't. If anyone would like to cite examples where that isn't the case, please do so...but that has always been my view on that. Sure, inexperience can lead to being out of position and doing bad things...but players like Butler, Sharper or Woodson showed their ability to make plays on the ball when it was in the air from day one.

Bigby clearly doesn't have that ability naturally. He may learn to at least turn around and look for a ball in the hopes to not draw a flag, but that is about it. He'll never be a playmaker in the passing game. Collins can play the ball OK, but he has the hands of a DT.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think Collins and Bigby have both played better than some think. Teams are going to complete passes on you--especially guys like Gates and Gonzalez. That interference was a really bad play against Bigby, but the rest of the plays I can't fault him much. Sometimes the other team makes a good throw and the TE makes unbelievable plays. Bigby is good as a run defender, and we aren't seeing the huge breakdowns that we saw last year. This defense is good, and the safeties aren't screwing things up like last year. I, for one, am not ready for the start of the Aaron Rouse era. Things could be a lot worse.

[Zool]

I think Collins and Bigby have both played better than some think. Teams are going to complete passes on you--especially guys like Gates and Gonzalez. That interference was a really bad play against Bigby, but the rest of the plays I can't fault him much. Sometimes the other team makes a good throw and the TE makes unbelievable plays. Bigby is good as a run defender, and we aren't seeing the huge breakdowns that we saw last year. This defense is good, and the safeties aren't screwing things up like last year. I, for one, am not ready for the start of the Aaron Rouse era. Things could be a lot worse.

Cant have all-pro's at every position. Guys are going to make mistakes from time to time.

[HarveyWallbangers]

This was a frustrating point in the game.

From Yahoo Sports:

Not-so instant replay: This is not a new observation, but certainly an irritating one nonetheless. More and more, networks seemingly refuse to show great plays (for instance, Bucs receiver Joey Galloway's unbelievable first-half scoring grab between two Cardinals defenders) prior to commercial breaks. Instead, viewers are forced to watch the smiling recipient, the PAT, a sideline shot and then a commercial before getting another glimpse at the score. Even more frustrating was Packers safety Nick Collins emphatically suggesting that his bobbled catch on the sideline was indeed an interception. All the viewers got was one replay, from a bad angle, before Kansas City quick-snapped to keep Green Bay from challenging. Since the point then became officially moot, no other replays were shown as if the instance never occurred.

[The Leaper]

This defense is good, and the safeties aren't screwing things up like last year.

The biggest reason for that is the improved DL play after moving Jenkins to DE and getting improved play from the rotation at DT. The consistent pressure gives the DBs a break.

Bigby IS better than Manual. I'll give you that. However, he's not the answer going forward IMO. We could really use a guy back there who can make plays. We aren't getting enough turnovers considering how much pressure we get up front.

[HarveyWallbangers]

This defense is good, and the safeties aren't screwing things up like last year.

The biggest reason for that is the improved DL play after moving Jenkins to DE and getting improved play from the rotation at DT. The consistent pressure gives the DBs a break.

Bigby IS better than Manual. I'll give you that. However, he's not the answer going forward IMO. We could really use a guy back there who can make plays. We aren't getting enough turnovers considering how much pressure we get up front.

I don't think the DL is playing much differently than last year... to be honest. Last year, we'd play good football on 90% of the plays, and then have a breakdown in the secondary. That's not happening this year.

Our sacks are actually down this year. We get solid pressure (and it comes with just 4 guys most of the time), but we don't get relentless pressure. Jenkins is playing hurt and not providing much pass rush this year. The rest of the guys are playing similarly to last year. The coverage unit has helped the pass rush. It goes hand and hand.

[The Leaper]

The coverage unit has helped the pass rush. It goes hand and hand.

When has Bigby helped the pass rush? Harris, Collins and Woodson are constants. Bigby has made precious few plays in coverage.

The reason we have less sacks this year is because teams are more focused at stopping our rush. Like we had to do last year with a poor OL, opposing offenses are keeping in more TEs and RBs to help block. Last year, teams rarely kept in any help for the OL...it wasn't necessary in their mind as Kampman hadn't proven himself to be an elite DE, Pickett wasn't a pass rushing threat, and KGB was a one-trick pony.

Bottom line: Manual was exposed far more last year in coverage because the offense had more of its playbook to choose from, and Bigby is getting helped directly from a DL that has earned the respect of the opposing offenses.