Walker: Thompson drove me from Green Bay

[pbmax]

The list of players Green Bay strung along on below market contracts or until the last minute is long in recent years...Franks, Kampman, Diggs, KGB, Wahle, Walker, McKenzie. This caused us to have to overpay much of the time to retain talent, and also opened the potential for us to lose some of these players.

Disagree. KGB and Diggs were mid-round picks who Sherman tendered incorrectly. Tendered correctly, their leverage would have been reduced and more reasonable contracts signed.

How much money would you have offered Franks? He got paid quite well for a man who is more of a threat as a blocker than receiver. He also spent the spring and summer off the Packer campus because he refused to sign the transition offer, in order to communicate his distaste for a one year deal. He wasn't being strung along, he was negotiating.

Wahle was on his SECOND contract. How this can be defined as being strung along is beyond me. He and the team knew that 2005 was either renegotiate or head back to FA.

McKenzie was on his SECOND deal. He and his agent miscalculated and he took a deal that was below market 3 months later. Singing a guy early is exactly what you are suggesting, and McKenzie is example #1 of how this can go bad.

Kampman signed a good deal for both player and team after negotiating for 4 months, while under contract. This is stringing along?

And for Chambers and his deal, you can't compare the total package and total years, he may never see any of the back end money. With Driver's deal, at least you know the numbers are realistic, even if tha Pack could cut him loose without a significant cap hit after 2 year.

[Bretsky]

How in the hell did they take FERG??? AHHHHHH it just hit me.

Nick,

In all honesty the passing of Chris Chambers was the lowest point I've had in watching all the NFL drafts. Scouts identified the 7 top WR's and Chambers was generally in the 3-6 range. The Browns goofed up by taking Quincy Morgan, who seemed to be rated #8 by most, ahead of Chambers. I was hoping Green Bay would select Chris Chambers at pick #17, and then Green Bay traded that pick (ended up being Steve Hutchinson) along with Matt Hasslebeck to get pick #10 (Jamal Raynolds) and a 3rd rounder (Torrence Marshall).

As I was watching that 2nd round wind down, I was absolutely positive when Green Bay moved up in round two they did so to draft Chris Chambers. Four year starter at the UW, great hands, below a 4.4, and great leaper. Pro Ready to step in from day one.

That was a great year from WR's and he was considered to be one of the big 7 that were in the top tier of wideouts. When we traded up I thought he was a lock to be a Packer. Selecting Ferguson over Chambers had to send about 25 teams laughing. I will always argue that was the worst selection I have ever witnessed by Green Bay because unlike there other bad picks, that one was so glaringly obvious it was amazing.

B

[RashanGary]

He sounds an awfull lot like Greg Jennings.

[Iron Mike]

APB gets his bear.

Hah hah hah!!!!!

[Anti-Polar Bear]

APB gets his bear.

Hah hah hah!!!!!

Unless that's a mixed race Polar Bear (thanks to st. lou at jsonline, I've learned that scientists now have discovered a biracial polar bear who is part polar bear,part grizzly bear), there's is nothing funny about the picture. Last I checked Polar Bears are protected under international laws. I believe it is a crime to hunt polar bears.

But what do I care? I am a liberal but a liberal who is more concerned with human welfare than animals that human have no use for; not even as pet. Millions of dollars are being wasted to protect useless endangered spices while millions of people around the world are starving. That to me is injustice.

[Iron Mike]

Unless that's a mixed race Polar Bear (thanks to st. lou at jsonline, I've learned that scientists now have discovered a biracial polar bear who is part polar bear,part grizzly bear), there's is nothing funny about the picture. Last I checked Polar Bears are protected under international laws. I believe it is a crime to hunt polar bears.

But what do I care? I am a liberal but a liberal who is more concerned with human welfare than animals that human have no use for; not even as pet. Millions of dollars are being wasted to protect useless endangered spices while millions of people around the world are starving. That to me is injustice.

Geez, Tank--I just quoted that post so that you'd have a new emoticon to use...........

[Anti-Polar Bear]

[quote="Iron Mike"]

Geez, Tank--I just quoted that post so that you'd have a new emoticon to use...........

Oh yeah. That's a good one. I may have failed to notice it at first due to me being distracted by the dead polar bear.

[GBRulz]

Leaper, you were one of JW's biggest supporters for a new contract in GB. What happened that you changed your mind?

I never supported giving him top 5 money at WR. I advocated for Thompson to put a fair deal on the table considering all factors involved...including having 2 years left under his current contract and being relatively unproven compared to other elite WRs like Owens, Moss, Harrison, etc. I thought after 2004, Walker deserved a deal making him the 20-25th highest paid WR in the league over the next 3 years. That would've given Walker the pay raise he wanted and deserved based on his talent...as well as giving him the ability to cash in another big payday within 2-3 seasons if he continued to produce at the level of an elite WR.

Whether or not Walker would've taken that, I don't know. But Thompson should've put the deal on the table and showed a willingness to bargain with a blue chip player. You don't ignore someone with Walker's talent until they are desperate enough to force their way out of town. That is foolishness IMO.

As far as the deal Denver gave Walker...I think it is ridiculous considering Walker is coming off of a rather major injury and really won't have the time to prove himself worthy of that massive deal in one year with a new team. Basically, Shanahan has painted himself in a corner. Rod Smith is on the decline, and has one or two years left in the tank tops. Lelie now is massively pissed off Shanahan went out and got Walker, and he isn't likely to stay in Denver very long. That means regardless of what Walker does this year, Shanahan is going to have to eat a monster contract for him...or look like a real fool. Unless Walker puts up another 1250 yards and 12 TDs, which I think is unlikely working on a new team with a less talented QB at the helm, it is going to be real hard to justify giving him the kind of money Denver is slotted to give him after 2006.

I could have sworn you were an advocate for giving JWalk the money, because I remember you saying something about him sitting on a 25 million dollar lottery ticket signing bonus. Don't remember exactly. Posting on JSO seems like forever ago

[Bretsky]

He sounds an awfull lot like Greg Jennings.

This does't mean Jennings can't be as good or better, but coming out of college Chambers was faster, a better leaper, and stronger than Jennings. I'd give Jennings the edge for ability to create yards after the catch, but only a slight edge. We'll be walking on water with happiness if Jennings turns out to be as good as Chris Chambers.

[b bulldog]

Chambers is good but he really has only had one very good season. With that being said, I think he will cement himself as a top 8 WR this season.

[Bretsky]

Chambers is good but he really has only had one very good season. With that being said, I think he will cement himself as a top 8 WR this season.

Kind of interesting reading that; I could plug in Javon Walker into the above phrase and it would fit perfectly as well.

Chambers has been playing with bad QBing his whole career though and has still put up a decent amount of TD's and yards per season. Last year was his first breakout season, but he showed flashes of tremendous ability from day one. It'd be scary if GB had drafted him and he'd have had Favre throwing to him the past few years.

Going forward if Javon Walker gets healthy, it should be interesting to see who puts up better career numbers because they are very very similar players in ability.

[The Leaper]

I could have sworn you were an advocate for giving JWalk the money, because I remember you saying something about him sitting on a 25 million dollar lottery ticket signing bonus. Don't remember exactly. Posting on JSO seems like forever ago

He was...if he hadn't gotten hurt. That was why he was trying to get a deal done last season with 2 years left on his rookie deal. He was trying to avoid exactly what happened to him.

However, he went about it all wrong...then Thompson refused to negotiate...and Walker basically had no choice but to return to camp and hope he didn't blow out his knee, unless he was punk enough to pull a McKenzie.

He was sitting on a $25 million lottery ticket. Guys like Peerless Price and Laverneus Coles cashed in pretty big off one good season...and they don't represent anything close to the physical talent that Javon Walker has. That is why I don't really hold anything against Walker in wanting to get a new deal last season...precisely because what did happen could happen.

[The Leaper]

KGB and Diggs were mid-round picks who Sherman tendered incorrectly. Tendered correctly, their leverage would have been reduced and more reasonable contracts signed.

So you admit that Green Bay tendered them incorrectly. Why did they do this? Because they were HOPING to get them relatively cheap if no other NFL teams showed interest. This is EXACTLY the kind of crap I am talking about...not paying guys what they are worth up front and being done with it.

How much money would you have offered Franks? He got paid quite well for a man who is more of a threat as a blocker than receiver.

Yes he did...mainly because Green Bay REFUSED to put together a deal earlier and wrap him up before mega-stars like Antonio Gates started raising the ceiling on TE salaries. To some extent, I don't begrudge the Packers in this instance...however, it is still a valid point to bring up from a player's persepective. That is my point. Franks was a solid player and a good presence in the locker room...and had to fight tooth and nail to get a contract hammered out that gave him some level of security long term. A guy like Walker is going to view that and have doubts about how the team will treat him.

Wahle was on his SECOND contract. How this can be defined as being strung along is beyond me. He and the team knew that 2005 was either renegotiate or head back to FA. McKenzie was on his SECOND deal. He and his agent miscalculated and he took a deal that was below market 3 months later. Singing a guy early is exactly what you are suggesting, and McKenzie is example #1 of how this can go bad.

I don't care if it is a FIRST, SECOND, or EIGHTH contract. The point isn't signing a guy early...it is treating guys fairly when it is in the best interest of the team.

McKenzie was treated unfairly. It is entirely his fault...he had incompetent advisors...but Green Bay should not have taken advantage of the situation as they did. It sends a dangerous message to the players that the team doesn't really give a crap about them...and will screw them over any chance they get. I don't condone that one bit. That again is part of my point. I want Green Bay to RESPECT the players on the roster...and try to do the RIGHT thing. Mike McKenzie was a valuable player for this franchise...screwing him over was the wrong thing to do, regardless of the IQ of his agent. The Packers knew his value...they should've tried to craft a deal that was fair, because in the end an unfair deal will typically bite you in the ass.

I would admit that "stringing along" might not be the correct wording for some of these situations. However, I think it is pretty clear that Green Bay hasn't always been honorable when it comes to dealing with player salaries. That causes guys like Walker...who are staring a potential monster contract in the face...to doubt that Green Bay is going to deal fairly with them. It sets a bad precident...and one that I hope the franchise earnestly seeks to stamp out. Otherwise, others will follow the lead of McKenzie and Walker.

[Patler]

How much money would you have offered Franks? He got paid quite well for a man who is more of a threat as a blocker than receiver.

Yes he did...mainly because Green Bay REFUSED to put together a deal earlier and wrap him up before mega-stars like Antonio Gates started raising the ceiling on TE salaries. To some extent, I don't begrudge the Packers in this instance...however, it is still a valid point to bring up from a player's persepective. That is my point. Franks was a solid player and a good presence in the locker room...and had to fight tooth and nail to get a contract hammered out that gave him some level of security long term. A guy like Walker is going to view that and have doubts about how the team will treat him.

I think it is at least as likely, and probably MORE likely that the delay in signing Franks was caused by Franks and his agent, not the Packers. From the bits and pieces of comments in articles over the summer, I am fairly well convinced that with the tender from the tag in his pocket, Franks simply decided to wait as long as he could, and see if the market would develop for him to sign a blockbuster deal, either with GB or someone else. There was no reason for him not to do that. As training camps neared, if a team developed a drastic need for a tight end, his value may have escalated.

Delays in signing free agents are not always caused by the team, and in this instance I am convinced that Franks was more than happy to string things along and see how it played out. It was the smart thing to do on his part.

[Patler]

Wahle was on his SECOND contract. How this can be defined as being strung along is beyond me. He and the team knew that 2005 was either renegotiate or head back to FA. McKenzie was on his SECOND deal. He and his agent miscalculated and he took a deal that was below market 3 months later. Singing a guy early is exactly what you are suggesting, and McKenzie is example #1 of how this can go bad.

I don't care if it is a FIRST, SECOND, or EIGHTH contract. The point isn't signing a guy early...it is treating guys fairly when it is in the best interest of the team.

McKenzie was treated unfairly. It is entirely his fault...he had incompetent advisors...but Green Bay should not have taken advantage of the situation as they did. It sends a dangerous message to the players that the team doesn't really give a crap about them...and will screw them over any chance they get. I don't condone that one bit. That again is part of my point. I want Green Bay to RESPECT the players on the roster...and try to do the RIGHT thing. Mike McKenzie was a valuable player for this franchise...screwing him over was the wrong thing to do, regardless of the IQ of his agent. The Packers knew his value...they should've tried to craft a deal that was fair, because in the end an unfair deal will typically bite you in the ass.

Explain to me how Wahle was treated unfairly? Wahle's last contract from GB was a great contract for an up and coming player. Two things could have happened in 2005, both of which were excellent for Wahle:

1. GB could have paid a huge bonus to him, and a year later he would have become a free agent, but with the possibility of GB tagging him.

2. GB could decline to pay the bonus, and Wahle would immediately become an UFA, without the encumberance of GB being able to put a tag on him.

Wahle was actually paid quite well under his last contract in GB. He got a $2.250 million signing bonus in 2002, roster bonuses totaling about $750,000 in 2003 and 2004 and salaries of $525,000; $1,875,000 and $2,100,000 in '02, '03 and '04. He was paid a total of $7.5 million by GB for the three seasons of '02, 03 and '04. With an average of $2.5 million for the 3 years, he was actually one of the better paid guards in the league. On average, he was not far behind Rivera who signed a 4 year deal in 2001 and collected just under $11 million. Plus, absent injury or declining play Wahle was guaranteed a blockbuster income in 2005, as I explained above.

Suggesting that GB was cheap with Wahle, or treated him poorly is just flat out incorrect.