Rayner having troubles in KC

[digitaldean]

For those who were upset with Crosby's misses....

Rayner missed 2 of 3 at Indy indoors.
______
From Herm Edwards press conf. on a variety of topics.....

On the status of place-kicker Dave Rayner, who missed two of three kicks at Indianapolis:

He’s our kicker right now. He’s going to continue to kick, and hopefully he can make some. If we have to get closer for him, we’ll have to get closer to him.

[MadtownPacker]

Well luckily they probably aren't going to the playoffs. The Packers look like they probably are going so they need to be confident in Crosby. He is kinda shaky. He better be relax when his number gets called in a big game.

[Merlin]

Crosby seems to make the same mistake the entire game. If he is hitting right, he continues to hit right. If he is hitting left he continues to hit left. I am sure all that will come with time. I don't think it's been a great week for some very good kickers. Look at Vinitari, he over compensated each time and missed what? 4 in a row?. Crosby seems to be not wanting to make that mistake so I suspect his corrections are under compensating. He will find the right compensation level.

Rayner isn't under performing by any means. But of course those that are all high on Crosby won't see it that way. Anything to bash a former player they don't like.

I like Crosby but I also liked Rayner. I would have been happy either way. I like Crosby's more consistent kick offs and hopefully the other mistakes he has made with correct themselves with time. I feel the same way about Rayner although kicking in KC is a lot different then kicking at Lambeau. I think he needs another season in the same environment to see what he is made of.

Comparison:

Crosby 18/22 82%
Rayner 13/17 76%

Crosby 12/13 20+
Rayner 9/11 20+

Crosby 5/8 40+
Rayner 4/6 40+

Crosby 50 kick offs for 3,129 yards 62.6 ave with 10 touch backs, return average 20 yards, 1 kick out of bounds.

Rayner 32 kick offs for 2,206 yards 68.9 ave with 3 touch backs, return average 22.5 yards, 2 out of bounds kicks.

They both have had a field goal blocked although nfl.com doesn't list Crosby's for whatever reason.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Crosby seems to make the same mistake the entire game. If he is hitting right, he continues to hit right. If he is hitting left he continues to hit left. I am sure all that will come with time. I don't think it's been a great week for some very good kickers. Look at Vinitari, he over compensated each time and missed what? 4 in a row?. Crosby seems to be not wanting to make that mistake so I suspect his corrections are under compensating. He will find the right compensation level.

Rayner isn't under performing by any means. But of course those that are all high on Crosby won't see it that way. Anything to bash a former player they don't like.

I like Crosby but I also liked Rayner. I would have been happy either way. I like Crosby's more consistent kick offs and hopefully the other mistakes he has made with correct themselves with time. I feel the same way about Rayner although kicking in KC is a lot different then kicking at Lambeau. I think he needs another season in the same environment to see what he is made of.

Comparison:

Crosby 18/22 82%
Rayner 13/17 76%

Crosby 12/13 20+
Rayner 9/11 20+

Crosby 5/8 40+
Rayner 4/6 40+

Crosby 50 kick offs for 3,129 yards 62.6 ave with 10 touch backs, return average 20 yards, 1 kick out of bounds.

Rayner 32 kick offs for 2,206 yards 68.9 ave with 3 touch backs, return average 22.5 yards, 2 out of bounds kicks.

They both have had a field goal blocked although nfl.com doesn't list Crosby's for whatever reason.

Well, here is another one of Merlin's fine posts. Except it is flawed as always.

Let's examine. Hmm, Mason seems to make the same mistake throughout the game. In order to make that type of determination one would need some games to evaluate him. Do we have this type of data. Not really.

First, he hasn't even played ONE PROFESSIONAL SEASON.

Ok, but let's just look at the small sample size and go from there.

In the preseason he missed one field goal. He didn't attempt one after that miss, so we can't determine anything from that.

In the regular season he is 19/25 (i don't know why you can't use the most recent data). He missed on against the Giants and didn't attempt another. Nothing can be learned from that. In the washington game he missed two. Against KC he missed one. Against Carolina he missed 2.

Now, i will be honest and say that I don't know about the misses..in other words, were the really long field goals, or did he correct himself in the KC game which would disprove Merlins inane thoughts.

What we do know is that in 2 games he missed 2 field goals. In one of those games, according to NFL.com a fg was blocked. So, we can't examine self correction.

That leaves us with ONE FREAKING GAME to make a determination. That is just asinine.

What we also know is that merlin doesn't use current data.

FG%. Crosby 76%, Rayner 70%.

We also know that Mason has kicked in 10 games vs. 9.

We know that he has had more chances from outside the 30 which will result in lowering your percentage including 1-2 from over 50. Rayner is 0-1. Funny, isn't that what Herm was saying about Rayner...we will have to get closer for him. Is anyone saying that about Mason?

We also know that merlin skews the data as he doesn't break down the kicks, in other words plus 40 is all the same to him. He doesn't want you to know that rayner is 6-8 from 30-39 as opposed to mason at 8-9 from that range.

Nor does he mention that Rayner's longest kick this year is 49 yards, whereas Mason's is 53.

Mason is averaging 62.9 on kickoffs, 56 kickoffs, 11 tb, 43 returns and 19.8 on returns.

Rayner is averaging 68.9 on kickoffs, 35 kickoffs, 3 tb, 30 returns and 22.1 returns.

What does the smart packer fan glean from this. Rayner either has shorter hang time or something mysterious is happening as kick returners are deeper in their own territory yet somehow manage to return it for more yards.

What else does the smart packer fan realize from this? That mason's tb are 19.6 percent. Rayner is at 8.57%.

Or that 85.71 of Rayner's KOs are returned as opposed to 76.78.

Case closed. Any objective football fan could tell you which kicker AT THIS MOMENT is the better player.

[Scott Campbell]

So far it appears that the Packers kept the right guy. But that is subject to change because its still early.

[Tarlam!]

Well, here is another one of Merlin's fine posts. Except it is flawed as always.

Let's examine.

Y'know, I think your post, TB, is crap. You went out of your way to ridicule a fellow poster. That's just cheap. I know, because I am guilty of the same and I am rehabbing!!

Merlin stated his opinion, which I happen to disagree with about 99.9% of the time. I guess he disagrees with my opinion 99.999% of the time. But he never ever went out of his way to make me look like an idiot.

I respect Merlin; I disagree with most of what he writes, but he remains true to his heart and he is a Packer Fan. I should respect Woody non those grounds, but, that would be asking a lot.

Merlin at least is plausible in his inaccuracy!

[the_idle_threat]

2nded.

And after all that bullshit in your post, TB, the bottom line is that neither guy has kicked enough to reasonably compare, so you're just as wrong as you say Merlin is.

It's not that clear who's better until they both have a full season. We can go back to last year's numbers for Rayner, perhaps, but the sample size is too small for Crosby, and he hasn't yet faced the test of truly poor weather.

[GoPackGo]

I think Tyrone sits in his office in Snobbsdale all day long waiting for Merlin to post so he can argue with him.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Is it okay for me to say that I agree with the point that Tyrone was making?

[the_idle_threat]

No.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

2nded.

And after all that bullshit in your post, TB, the bottom line is that neither guy has kicked enough to reasonably compare, so you're just as wrong as you say Merlin is.

It's not that clear who's better until they both have a full season. We can go back to last year's numbers for Rayner, perhaps, but the sample size is too small for Crosby, and he hasn't yet faced the test of truly poor weather.

That is why, if you FREAKING read, i said at this moment. I even capitalized it. What more do you want? What part of that don't you understand?

Furthermore, I stated at the beginning he hasn't even played one season. But, to give Merlin the benefit of the doubt I used HIS criteria. THIS SEASON. I wouldn't spout off and give an opinion on a player that doesn't have a track record. That is the reason you dont' see my making asinine statements about whether Arod is good or Harrell is bad.

There is no bullshit in my post. It is completely fair and objective. If the data skewed towards rayner i would be backing merlin's post.

The point i was making wasn't whether Rayner or Mason was better, but that trying to determine how Mason was compensating was impossible.

If there is one thing i can't stand is people commenting on that which has no factual basis. Just taking what they perceive and then telling us it is truth. Perception is reality, but only reality for the perceiver. In other words, it is easy to look at a player and say, "he doesn't try, he looks lazy, etc..therefore he doesn't care," whereas someone else can say, "he is smooth, effortless, he doesn't show emotion but that doesn't mean he doesn't care."

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I think Tyrone sits in his office in Snobbsdale all day long waiting for Merlin to post so he can argue with him.

Tyrone has made prolly 3 posts regarding merlin. Hardly basis for you to make the assumption.

Tyrone lives in Snobbsdale, however, tyrone does't work there. Just an FYI so you can be accurate when you make stupid statements like this.

I reviewed and I missed another post. Make that 4. Course it is hard not post a rebuttal when merlin is claiming that mendenhall could be a tight end or wr, when he is a five eleven running back and the 15th rated draftee. But, feel free to defend his idiocy.

[GoPackGo]

Tyrone has made prolly 3 posts regarding merlin. Hardly basis for you to make the assumption.

keep up the crack smoking, cracker

[the_idle_threat]

2nded.

And after all that bullshit in your post, TB, the bottom line is that neither guy has kicked enough to reasonably compare, so you're just as wrong as you say Merlin is.

It's not that clear who's better until they both have a full season. We can go back to last year's numbers for Rayner, perhaps, but the sample size is too small for Crosby, and he hasn't yet faced the test of truly poor weather.

That is why, if you FREAKING read, i said at this moment. I even capitalized it. What more do you want? What part of that don't you understand?

There is no bullshit in my post. It is completely fair and objective. If the data skewed towards rayner i would be backing merlin's post.

The point i was making wasn't whether Rayner or Mason was better, but that trying to determine how Mason was compensating was impossible.

You start by saying there aren't enough stats to make a fair comparison (which is correct) and then you go on to compare them anyway, using the same stats you acknowlegde as insufficient, and draw a conclusion as to which one is better. Your caveat that this is supposedly limited to RIGHT NOW is bullshit by the truckload. I swear, people must absolutely hate being downwind of you.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Tyrone has made prolly 3 posts regarding merlin. Hardly basis for you to make the assumption.

keep up the crack smoking, cracker

Whatever. Find the posts? Otherwise you are just a big talker.

Offhand memory: One post regarding TT and must of that was talking about TT, one post on rayner, one post on cornerbacks.

Till you can show otherwise, STFU.