For Harvey, Favre Top 5 QB

[pbmax]

I complain when you do it, I say that others don't do it and I repeat that I don't agree.

But then it happened: Noted Favre antagonist Peter King, yesterday on local radio had Brett Favre in the top 5 QBs of all time after the (partial) year that he has had at age 103.

He put Marino at 6 or 7, but did not specify the rest of the list.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Where do you rank Favre?

[The Leaper]

It is very difficult to compare QBs from different eras.

However, Marino has long been held as a top 5 passer of all-time by most despite never winning a title. One would have to say that Favre has to be in there now that he is breaking Marino's records AND has a ring to show for it.

Montana and Starr certainly have the "clutch/leadership" component...but could they have been as successful without such a strong supporting cast? Many other elite QBs have been very successful without having nearly as much talent around them...and Favre and Brady are proving this season how much surrounding talent really matters to a QB.

Unitas and Elway certainly have the "playmaker" component...those guys made plays and led their team to many wins and chances at championships. However, despite their successes, they weren't always as consistent as other elite QBs. However, they could win in spite of whatever circumstances were around them...through coaching changes, injuries, whatever...these guys would find a way to win at all costs, even at the longest of odds.

Marino and Moon certainly have the "consistency" component...those guys were consistently successful as pure passers, and probably have some of the greatest natural talent as a tosser of the pigskin. It is too bad Moon did not play his entire career in the NFL...he'd probably have records that Favre might have to work a little longer to attain. However, despite their prodigous talent, they were never NFL champions.

However, if you have to select one elite QB who best comprises ALL of these attributes, I think Brett Favre has to be a serious contender. Perhaps Tom Brady or Peyton Manning will surpass that someday...but for now, Favre's record of longevity and performance is unparalleled. He's been as successful as any that has played the position...he's been as durable as any that has played the position...he's won as much as any that has played the position. Only one losing season in a 16 season career as a starter? That is a record of excellence that will be difficult for anyone following to match.

[pbmax]

Seventh or eighth. Behind Elway, Montana, Unitas, Marino, Otto Graham, Sammy Baugh and maybe Tarkenton.

Fran's numbers were ridiculous for the era he played in. But I haven't seen enough of him to know whether he actually could dominate or just ran up stats against mediocre teams or in garbage time.

In Baugh's or Graham's case, they could and did dominate, leading ahead of their time passing attacks to championships.

However, the point of the thread was a kudo to you, as I had never seen anyone else I have respect for put Favre that high. I was surprised how quickly King did when asked.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Seventh or eighth. Behind Elway, Montana, Unitas, Marino, Otto Graham, Sammy Baugh and maybe Tarkenton.

I can see Elway, Montana, Unitas, and Graham. No way to Marino, Baugh, and Tarkenton in my book.

[The Leaper]

In Baugh's or Graham's case, they could and did dominate, leading ahead of their time passing attacks to championships.

So were they great because of their talent...or merely because they were ahead of their time?

Modern training and conditioning levels the playing field. It was easier for great talents to dominate in previous generations...in any sport. That makes it very difficult to compare players from different eras.

[The Leaper]

Seventh or eighth. Behind Elway, Montana, Unitas, Marino, Otto Graham, Sammy Baugh and maybe Tarkenton.

I can see Elway, Montana, Unitas, and Graham. No way to Marino, Baugh, and Tarkenton in my book.

I would generally agree with you Harvey. I don't think you can possibly look at Favre and the current state of the game and not conclude he is one of the 5 best to ever play the position.

Graham? The guy was far more of a runner than a passer. His offense was a T formation, for pete sakes. How in the hell can you say he is a great QB compared to modern QBs?

IMO, it is IMPOSSIBLE to compare pre-Super Bowl era QBs with Super Bowl era QBs. The game really did not start to become what it is today until the AFL-NFL merger.

A great football player? Absolutely. Graham's leadership and talent is unquestionable. However, he can't be viewed as a great QB by modern standards...he didn't play the same game that exists today.

[woodbuck27]

Favre is just a different animal when the topic of GREAT QB's comes up.

It's difficult to say who was is the best.

Favre is definitely up there though and the story isn't finished yet.

I like Joe Montana ( a lot of us saw this fella win a lot ) and Johnny Unitis (saw him play and he was something else) as OK's ahead of Favre but Marino isn't there and I like Favre over John Elway.

One of the ** most exciting to watch was Fran Tarkenton.

I never saw Otto Graham.

Favre certainly has that ** plus two dates in a Super Bowl with a win and the only 3 time MVP, and ALL THOSE RECORDS on a team that wasn't exactly blessed with dominant WR's over his career.

Antonio Freeman as the WR with the most TD catch's. Uhhhh ??

I do believe that Sterling Sharpe and Robert Brook were great and so is Donald Driver.

Plus he's second on the list for consecutive starts for all players -all positions and he's a QB. That record is just splendid and one of the greatest in all of sports. He has to be so proud of that accomplishment.

Terry Bradshaw wasn't too bad, but he played on a dominant team, yet called his own game. Bradshaw says the Brett Favre is the best he's seen.

Madden loves him as well and that's just alright with this Packer fan.

It's not over yet folks.

[AtlPackFan]

Seventh or eighth. Behind Elway, Montana, Unitas, Marino, Otto Graham, Sammy Baugh and maybe Tarkenton.

I can see Elway, Montana, Unitas, and Graham. No way to Marino, Baugh, and Tarkenton in my book.

Would Elway be up there if it wasn't for the two Super Bowls he won in his last two years? Just a question.

[swede]

Archie Manning was the best to ever play the game and get no notice whatsoever--other than those two boys of his.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Seventh or eighth. Behind Elway, Montana, Unitas, Marino, Otto Graham, Sammy Baugh and maybe Tarkenton.

I can see Elway, Montana, Unitas, and Graham. No way to Marino, Baugh, and Tarkenton in my book.

Would Elway be up there if it wasn't for the two Super Bowls he won in his last two years? Just a question.

Top 5? I don't think so. I'd put him just head of Marino--in the 6-8 range. Sure, Terrell Davis won him two Super Bowls, but he got some average Broncos teams to the Super Bowl three times. He carries those teams.

[The Leaper]

Would Elway be up there if it wasn't for the two Super Bowls he won in his last two years? Just a question.

I would put him up there, but you are right that the SB wins probably are what get him up there. He took his team to a Super Bowl 5 times. He has 47 fourth quarter comeback victories...and amazingly almost half of them involve him leading the team to score in the final 2 minutes.

His stats don't look overly impressive season-to-season...but you have to remember the lack of supporting talent he had for much of his early career. He was a winner, he was clutch...he's one of the 5 best all-time modern QBs IMO.

[the_idle_threat]

I really can't imagine putting Marino over Favre anymore. Favre has accomplished everything that Marino did, and then some.

So for all of those who once put Marino in the top 5, Favre has to (at least) take Marino's place.

Just my opinion.

[MOBB DEEP]

I really can't imagine putting Marino over Favre anymore. Favre has accomplished everything that Marino did, and then some.

So for all of those who once put Marino in the top 5, Favre has to (at least) take Marino's place.

Just my opinion.

GOOD STUFF

[Scott Campbell]

I'd put 38 year old Brett Favre up against any of those guys at 38.