Fire Shitty now!

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Henry and newman were both banged up tonight.

I'd take them over ours. Younger, more athetic, not as limited. Woodson is great, but Harris can only play a physical press coverage. I love Al, but i recognize his limitations.

If you can play for Parcells, you can play for me.

[Fritz]

I was going to file my usual "fire Schottenheimer" new topic, as I've done before as a joke. However, I see first that the Leaper beat me to it, but that he's serious.

Think about this for a second: a team is 10 - 1, loses a big game to a good team, and the next week fires the secondary coach.

I'm not a Schottenheimer fan. I don't think he's a very good coach. But I didn't see any threads like this before the game. What happened? Why fire him now, after one loss in what is an otherwise fine season?

Talk about panicking. Talk about clutching your scrotum. Talk about your willy shriveling up. I'm sorry, Leaper - and all who agree - I respect you and enjoy many of your posts, but that's about the worst idea anyone could come up with. That's the kind of thinking that permeated this site after the Pack started off so badly last year. That's the kind of thinking that, if practiced, would result in a team having a new GM every two years and a new head coach every year, if not sooner.

You'd win zero Superbowls with that kind of thinking. Zero.

[Bretsky]

Packers often look unprepared to play zone defense; not sure where the blame lies but it goes somewhere

[packrulz]

I was going to file my usual "fire Schottenheimer" new topic, as I've done before as a joke. However, I see first that the Leaper beat me to it, but that he's serious.

Think about this for a second: a team is 10 - 1, loses a big game to a good team, and the next week fires the secondary coach.

I'm not a Schottenheimer fan. I don't think he's a very good coach. But I didn't see any threads like this before the game. What happened? Why fire him now, after one loss in what is an otherwise fine season?

Talk about panicking. Talk about clutching your scrotum. Talk about your willy shriveling up. I'm sorry, Leaper - and all who agree - I respect you and enjoy many of your posts, but that's about the worst idea anyone could come up with. That's the kind of thinking that permeated this site after the Pack started off so badly last year. That's the kind of thinking that, if practiced, would result in a team having a new GM every two years and a new head coach every year, if not sooner.

You'd win zero Superbowls with that kind of thinking. Zero.

I agree, they went to zone coverage because without Woodson in there the man coverage wasn't working. Bigby and Bush were trying to play physical but they they need to eliminate the stupid facemask, delay of game, & etc. penalties. Al Harris was losing his composure too. Still, I'm pleased with the way the team battled, the onside kick damn near worked but it glanced off a Packer, and the score was 27-24 in the 4th quarter. I look at what can be learned from this game, next time the Packers should be healthy and will know better what to expect. Like Collinsworth said, the Packers are pretty much a passing team, would they really have an advantage playing on the icy frozen Tundra in Jan? I don't think so, Dallas would pound the rock with Barber all day. The Pack is 10-2 and headed for the playoffs, I'm pleased with their progress so far, in spite of having to play 3 games in 12 days, which isn't right. They'll get healthy and bounce back.

[Maxie the Taxi]

It's a moot point.

Not a chance in hell McCarthy will dump anybody in mid-stream. It's not his style.

All I know is that past defense is more than just the secondary, as Bigguns points out. Romo had way to much time and it was obvious our banged up front four wasn't up to the task. We needed more pressure on their QB and the only way that happens is some sort of blitz scheme. We didn't get it.

When you're up against a team that's well-coached and has good receivers like Dallas, you have to decide before the game what's more important to emphasize: extra pressure on the passer or extra coverage in the secondary. Granted the Packers were banged up in both the secondary and on the d-line, but to me that just makes the choice easier. You blitz. I'm a firm believer in pressuring the passer to help your secondary, especially a young QB like Romo. Remember how teams beat the Pack when Favre was young? They blitzed him and blitzed him. Remember how New England beat the Cowboys? They blitzed Romo to death.

[The Leaper]

You'd win zero Superbowls with that kind of thinking. Zero.

I got news for you.

We aren't going to win a SB with him coaching our secondary either. Good teams have consistently made his secondaries look like a joke throughout his career. It was pathetic watching how our secondary completely fell apart because Woodson couldn't play.

Again, I ask you to name one...JUST ONE...young player that has shown any development in the last two years in the secondary. There isn't one. Collins...no. Manuel...no. Bigby...no. Underwood...no. Carroll...no.

He's just damn lucky he has Harris and Woodson...two veterans who KNOW what to do on their own.

The bottom line is that Shotty can't coach young DBs how to improve. Regardless of their talent, they are doomed to make stupid errors and not really have a clue of what to do back there. You act like he offers something to this team. I ask you...what is it that he offers?

[Ballboy]

While I agree with the coaching angle, I think last night set the stage for what the Packers need to do in the off-season.

None of the DB's that played were high draft picks...I would guess that with the DL, LB, WR and RB somewhat taken care of, the Packers will focus on DB's and OL in the draft.

[The Leaper]

While I agree with the coaching angle, I think last night set the stage for what the Packers need to do in the off-season.

None of the DB's that played were high draft picks...I would guess that with the DL, LB, WR and RB somewhat taken care of, the Packers will focus on DB's and OL in the draft.

Yeah...that is ultimately what I want. I know nothing will change in season...but if Packer fans don't start grumbling about it, nothing will change.

Collins is a relatively high pick. Schotty has done absolutely nothing to improve him in the last 2 years. High picks likely won't mean much with Schotty coaching. He is THAT bad.

[Carolina_Packer]

http://www.packers.com/team/coaches/schottenheimer_kurt/

Well, above is a link to his resume. I don't know. If he had zero talent, I don't think he would have gotten a chance to coach, even from his big brother Marty. Obviously nepotism exists, but I doubt Marty would keep bringing him to his coaching stops (or trying to as in the case of last year in San Diego when he got fired allegedly for trying to hire his brother to replace Wade Phillips).

Obviously there is a fraternity with McCarthy going to KC at the recommendation of Paul Hackett, where McCarthy coached with...you guessed it...Kurt Schottenheimer.

It's possible this problem alleviates itself if Marty gets hired for another job and is able to bring Kurt along with him to be DC, which Kurt would obviously go and do. I think that's a real possibility, assuming Marty wants one more go of it.

Funny, Thompson could have hired Wad Phillips as a return favor for Wade's dad, Bum, giving him his big chance in Houston when he was undrafted out of SMU in 1975, but he didn't. I would still rather have McCarthy, which I guess comes with Kurt Schottenheimer for the time being. I think if MM and TT had serious doubts about KS, he'd be gone, even with their past relationship.

It's amazing how much better coaches look with guys who are more talented. When Woodson is in there and Rouse is in there, we are fine, but when you have to play inexperienced guys in situations they are not ready for, then the coach stinks. Hmm. What do you think of Nick Collins looking lost in coverage last night? What about Al Harris overrunning the long reception by T.O.? How do we know that Kurt doesn't say all the right things, install a perfectly good game plan, but doesn't have the right personnel to execute it? If MM and TT want him replaced, I'm fine with that. They still know what they are doing. This is somewhat the price of a youth movement. I'm surprised that Frank Walker is not more involved as a replacement instead of just being a role player, but obviously, he was just a depth guy. Perhaps they will stock up on some more DB talent next year.

[The Leaper]

Kurt's record is horrid. If you notice, few statistics are given for where his units ranked in the NFL...because usually they are HORRIBLE.

I will admit the Chiefs had some good DBs in the mid-90s. I'm not sure if any of that can be credited to Kurt. Hasty and Carter were excellent DBs before Kurt was coaching them. He merely got lucky in KC with his brother Marty there to watch over him.

Since he left KC, it has been nothing but failure after failure. 2001 Redskins? They were OK, but nothing special. Detroit in 2002 and 2003? Ugly...his defenses gave up 26 points per game on average while he was there. He was so bad as a DC at WASH and DET that he could only get a job as an assistant with Green Bay. We all know how bad his secondary was in 2004, giving up big play after big play. The Rams in 2005 weren't any better. He hasn't done anything noteworthy in developing talent in his second gig in Green Bay either.

There is little hope for developing young DB talent as long as Kurt is in Green Bay. Sure, he's fine at dealing with veterans who can handle themselves for the most part. I think I could deal with that myself OK too. The key for assistants is how they can develop young players. Kurt is incapable of doing it.

[packers11]

DB COACHING 101 ... LOOK BACK FOR THE BALL... The young guys hardly look back, they just look at the damn receiver and try to get in their face...

^ Bigby, Bush, Williams...

Even I know to look back when the ball is in the air or THEY WILL CALL P.I. in most cases...

[Carolina_Packer]

I guess that's what separates the average to below average DB's from the good ones...can I run at full speed and somehow keep one eye on the ball and still keep track of the receiver so I don't bump him when the ball is in the air? I wonder if some DB's don't think that if they turn their head that they will lose their momentum/speed and won't be able to close on the ball once it gets close enough to contest.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

While I agree with the coaching angle, I think last night set the stage for what the Packers need to do in the off-season.

None of the DB's that played were high draft picks...I would guess that with the DL, LB, WR and RB somewhat taken care of, the Packers will focus on DB's and OL in the draft.

Yeah...that is ultimately what I want. I know nothing will change in season...but if Packer fans don't start grumbling about it, nothing will change.

Collins is a relatively high pick. Schotty has done absolutely nothing to improve him in the last 2 years. High picks likely won't mean much with Schotty coaching. He is THAT bad.

If you think that packer fans grumbing has any influence on MM or TT then i've got some prime swampland..umm, beatiful undeveloped land in florida you should look at.

[4and12to12and4]

We can't blame Kurt for the potent passing attack of the Cowboys. TO is having a great year. If you say we lost this game because of him, then you have to also say the defensive line and their coach sure be fired, because that had more to do with the drives, the time Romo had. Also, let's bench Favre for AR, since AR moved the ball on the same team Favre was throwing ducks to. We are all banged up right now, and still made a game out of it. When our dline gets healthy and Woodson is back in there, then we can judge Kurt. He was 10-1 with all these guys healthy before Thursday, so ...

[Fritz]

You'd win zero Superbowls with that kind of thinking. Zero.

I got news for you.

We aren't going to win a SB with him coaching our secondary either. Good teams have consistently made his secondaries look like a joke throughout his career. It was pathetic watching how our secondary completely fell apart because Woodson couldn't play.

Again, I ask you to name one...JUST ONE...young player that has shown any development in the last two years in the secondary. There isn't one. Collins...no. Manuel...no. Bigby...no. Underwood...no. Carroll...no.

He's just damn lucky he has Harris and Woodson...two veterans who KNOW what to do on their own.

The bottom line is that Shotty can't coach young DBs how to improve. Regardless of their talent, they are doomed to make stupid errors and not really have a clue of what to do back there. You act like he offers something to this team. I ask you...what is it that he offers?

I wrote earlier that I didn't think much of him as a coach. We agree there. But my question is what kind of panicky message do you send if you fire a guy after a loss in an otherwise fine season? If it was that awful, that terrible, where was the "fire Sh_tty" post before the game? If you lose one game and then start pointing fingers of blame, you're going backward. You're doing what losers do. If MM decides Shotty isn't the Shiz (like we do), now is not the time. You lose more than you gain by firing him now.