Fire Shitty now!

[Freak Out]

You'd win zero Superbowls with that kind of thinking. Zero.

I got news for you.

We aren't going to win a SB with him coaching our secondary either. Good teams have consistently made his secondaries look like a joke throughout his career. It was pathetic watching how our secondary completely fell apart because Woodson couldn't play.

Again, I ask you to name one...JUST ONE...young player that has shown any development in the last two years in the secondary. There isn't one. Collins...no. Manuel...no. Bigby...no. Underwood...no. Carroll...no.

He's just damn lucky he has Harris and Woodson...two veterans who KNOW what to do on their own.

The bottom line is that Shotty can't coach young DBs how to improve. Regardless of their talent, they are doomed to make stupid errors and not really have a clue of what to do back there. You act like he offers something to this team. I ask you...what is it that he offers?

I wrote earlier that I didn't think much of him as a coach. We agree there. But my question is what kind of panicky message do you send if you fire a guy after a loss in an otherwise fine season? If it was that awful, that terrible, where was the "fire Sh_tty" post before the game? If you lose one game and then start pointing fingers of blame, you're going backward. You're doing what losers do. If MM decides Shotty isn't the Shiz (like we do), now is not the time. You lose more than you gain by firing him now.

I think it depends on who you replace him with...but is he the problem or is it the talent. Probably it is a mix of both but I agree it is pretty stupid to start calling for his head right now. I'm really hoping TT/M3 knows when it's time to make a change in the coaching staff. But it is soothing in a way screaming for someones head after a loss like that one.

[highlander]

Is Lionel Washington accountable at all? Boy talk about a coach that is getting a free pass. I think Washington has to absorb the same critique. Yes Shotty is the head guy but from what I understand Washington is a major influence in the secondary.

[4and12to12and4]

Shotty is fine. Doesn't he get credit for how good the rookie Rouse was playing before he got injured and how good our corners were playing before Thursday, or does he just get called out when bad things happen. Why are we pointing fingers after a game that anyone with half a brain should've figured we were gonna lose with all the starters not playing and in that hostile environment. Jeez, let's get over it. We are 10-2, some here are acting like we are 2-10. We had a not so good game that we were poised to win in the 4th quarter with a backup QB and 5 guys out on defense. Lighten up. We are better off losing this game, it'll fire us up, and take pressure off the team. Let's just get the bye and win two games in the post season, and we will all be happy again!!

[Fritz]

I don't know that I agree the team was better off losing this game, but I do agree that it's been a damn fine season so far - way, way better than 99% of the posters (myself included) thought - and one loss like that one isn't reason to become suddenly dour or start blaming. What's up with the culture of blame?

So let's enjoy the ride. Some criticism is warranted, sure. I'm not saying you can't be critical. But this huge, huge outrage, as if someone deliberately dropped a baby on its head, is a little bit of an overreaction.

I do like that Leaper is bringing up the coaching issue. It's worthy of debate. Is the secondary being held back by Shotty? By L. Washington? Is Rouse's good play this rookie season being ignored by the critics? Hmm. Good questions.

[The Leaper]

If it was that awful, that terrible, where was the "fire Sh_tty" post before the game? If you lose one game and then start pointing fingers of blame, you're going backward. You're doing what losers do. If MM decides Shotty isn't the Shiz (like we do), now is not the time. You lose more than you gain by firing him now.

Whatever Fritz.

I've called Kurt the worthless turd since he was HIRED. He has no place in Green Bay as far as I'm concerned. It wasn't the Dallas game that made me realize that.

Again...NAME ME ONE YOUNG DB WHO HAS IMPROVED ON SHITTY'S TIME HERE!!! JUST FUCKING ONE!!!

The fact I've asked this three times already in this threas, and you haven't named anyone, proves the point that he should be gone.

[cpk1994]

If it was that awful, that terrible, where was the "fire Sh_tty" post before the game? If you lose one game and then start pointing fingers of blame, you're going backward. You're doing what losers do. If MM decides Shotty isn't the Shiz (like we do), now is not the time. You lose more than you gain by firing him now.

Whatever Fritz.

I've called Kurt the worthless turd since he was HIRED. He has no place in Green Bay as far as I'm concerned. It wasn't the Dallas game that made me realize that.

Again...NAME ME ONE YOUNG DB WHO HAS IMPROVED ON SHITTY'S TIME HERE!!! JUST FUCKING ONE!!!

The fact I've asked this three times already in this threas, and you haven't named anyone, proves the point that he should be gone.

Underwood was developing until he got injured and he was never the same.
Now answer this question: How can Kurt devolp players when they there is almost constant turnover? Take away Woodson and Harris, Collins is the only one who has had a significant say in GB since Kurt has been DB coach.
Rouse is a rookie. Bigby a rookie. Williams, Bush ditto. How is Kurt supposed to develop players when it ssems he has total turnover every year. As for Collins, maybe he just flat out sucks no matter who coaches him.

[The Leaper]

Underwood was developing until he got injured and he was never the same.

How do we know this? Have we seen anything conclusive on the field in that regard? I really don't think so. We've heard he has looked better in practice and camp. Who cares? Have any of us seen it on the field? Not really.

Now answer this question: How can Kurt devolp players when they there is almost constant turnover?

That is what he, and every other assistant coach in the league, gets paid for. In the free agency era, there can be a lot of turnover. If he can't do it, he deserves to be fired. It shouldn't take a coach 3 years to get everyone on the same page. It has to happen immediately...and it can if you are a good coach.

[4and12to12and4]

If it was that awful, that terrible, where was the "fire Sh_tty" post before the game? If you lose one game and then start pointing fingers of blame, you're going backward. You're doing what losers do. If MM decides Shotty isn't the Shiz (like we do), now is not the time. You lose more than you gain by firing him now.

Whatever Fritz.

I've called Kurt the worthless turd since he was HIRED. He has no place in Green Bay as far as I'm concerned. It wasn't the Dallas game that made me realize that.

Again...NAME ME ONE YOUNG DB WHO HAS IMPROVED ON SHITTY'S TIME HERE!!! JUST FUCKING ONE!!!

The fact I've asked this three times already in this threas, and you haven't named anyone, proves the point that he should be gone.

Just one? How about Underwood if he didn't get injured, and Rouse was looking real good until his injury, and who knows, maybe Woodson doesn't play as well as he is if not for Shotty. There's no way for us to know that.

[cpk1994]

Underwood was developing until he got injured and he was never the same.

How do we know this? Have we seen anything conclusive on the field in that regard? I really don't think so. We've heard he has looked better in practice and camp. Who cares? Have any of us seen it on the field? Not really.

Now answer this question: How can Kurt devolp players when they there is almost constant turnover?

That is what he, and every other assistant coach in the league, gets paid for. In the free agency era, there can be a lot of turnover. If he can't do it, he deserves to be fired. It shouldn't take a coach 3 years to get everyone on the same page. It has to happen immediately...and it can if you are a good coach.

Yes there is turnover in the era of FA, but it is hard to develop a player if you have only one season, especially if these players are rookies, That is what Kurt has had to deal with.

[The Leaper]

Just one? How about Underwood if he didn't get injured, and Rouse was looking real good until his injury, and who knows, maybe Woodson doesn't play as well as he is if not for Shotty. There's no way for us to know that.

Rouse is intriguing, but we haven't seen much of him yet. Whether or not he is improving is impossible to tell. I'm not really being critical as much with the new guys this year, although I'm very disappointed when a guy like Bigby or Bush continues to make the same stupid mistakes in week 13 that they did in weeks 1-12. At what point does the coach get them to stop making these very correctable errors? It has nothing to do with talent...it has everything to do with mental fortitude and proper coaching.

I do know that Carroll didn't show any progress. Didn't Schotty have Carroll as a rookie too? Manuel wasn't able to integrate into our scheme by his second year with the team. Collins hasn't taken a step forward...he continues to wallow in mediocrity and can't catch a pass if the ball was covered in glue. Underwood is still a question mark to all of us. We've barely seen the guy on the field. The fact he's getting dumped for Nall isn't a sign that he's ready to be a contributor in the NFL...because Nall sure as hell isn't.

There isn't one legitimate sign ON THE FIELD that Kurt has improved anyone. Harris and Woodson know what to do. The rest of the guys have continued to make the same mistakes over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...

What more needs to be said?

[The Leaper]

Yes there is turnover in the era of FA, but it is hard to develop a player if you have only one season, especially if these players are rookies, That is what Kurt has had to deal with.

Is it hard to get a player to realize he can't grab someone's facemask and keep giving away 15 yards in crucial situations?

How long should that take to get accomplished? Just looking ballpark, here CPK.

Let me answer that for you. A good coach will put a stop to that nonsense pretty damn quick.

[Tarlam!]

With our DBs playing really well these days, do we still want to see Schotty fired?

[Partial]

I would. I think with our talent on defense, a more aggressive scheme with really benefit us. Our corners are good enough that they would be able to hold their own in man coverage.

[Tarlam!]

I would. I think with our talent on defense, a more aggressive scheme with really benefit us. Our corners are good enough that they would be able to hold their own in man coverage.

Huh? We play bump with our corners. What can be more aggressive than that?

If you are saying we should play the Safety up further like Seattle/Pittsburgh, then I agree in theory. But I don't see that fitting into the overall "bend" defense.

[Partial]

A more agressive scheme up front. I want the whole defensive staff gone. I'd like to use more blitzing from our backers, send all four linemen up field , etc. Our DBs are good enough to keep with the man coverage, but our defensive coaching staff refuses to acknowledge this and send some heat. I want the whole defensive staff replaced.