Fire Shitty now!

[Tarlam!]

I know you'll have a lot of supporters here for your case, but I am not one of them. I say that with all due respect, Partial.

I love this defense and I share Tex's aversion to blitzing. Jim Bates designed 90% of this package and Sanders is well liked by his players.

But this thread, started nearly a year ago, called for Schotty's head specifically. I am interested to know if the secondary's play has improved enough to warrant him keeping his job or not.

[sharpe1027]

I was very much against him. The DBs were consistently making key errors and not showing much improvement, IMHO.

Recently, I've been impressed with how the backups have come in and performed well. I've also been impressed with Nick Collins' new found ability to find the ball before it hits him in the back of the head.

Is it a case of players and coach finally getting on the same page? Have we just improved upon the quality of players? Did Schotty change his coaching? Has some other coach taken more interest in the DBs (MM maybe)?

I don't know, but Shotty's record doesn't give me a whole lot of confidence that he is behind our improved play...

It won't break my heart if, after the DBs performance this year, some other team offers him a promotion to a D-coordinator or such and we get someone else in there.

[Fritz]

If it was that awful, that terrible, where was the "fire Sh_tty" post before the game? If you lose one game and then start pointing fingers of blame, you're going backward. You're doing what losers do. If MM decides Shotty isn't the Shiz (like we do), now is not the time. You lose more than you gain by firing him now.

Whatever Fritz.

I've called Kurt the worthless turd since he was HIRED. He has no place in Green Bay as far as I'm concerned. It wasn't the Dallas game that made me realize that.

Again...NAME ME ONE YOUNG DB WHO HAS IMPROVED ON SHITTY'S TIME HERE!!! JUST FUCKING ONE!!!

The fact I've asked this three times already in this threas, and you haven't named anyone, proves the point that he should be gone.

Nick Collins
Atari Bigby
Tramon Williams

[boiga]

I'm actually very impressed with the improvement in our safeties. Bigby was on a Packers TV show not too long ago and showed good understanding about how to defend against run/pass options without getting burned. Nick Collins hasn't lost containment due to a bad angle in a long time either, although he's still not great against the run. These improvements show good coaching taking advantage of native talent, so Shotty seems to be doing his job.

In regards to coaches on the bubble, I'd be more eager to sack Campen or Stock. The number of OL and ST penalties so far this year has been embarrassing.

[MJZiggy]

A more agressive scheme up front. I want the whole defensive staff gone. I'd like to use more blitzing from our backers, send all four linemen up field , etc. Our DBs are good enough to keep with the man coverage, but our defensive coaching staff refuses to acknowledge this and send some heat. I want the whole defensive staff replaced.

Fritz? Is that you?

[SkinBasket]

I want to burn Shotty and Partial together then have a BBQ for Colin Cole.

[Bretsky]

my dislike for Schotty is from witnessing far more then this years improvement so far in individuals. It stems from missed assignments, mass confusion, and turmoil I've witnessed from even the talented players.

My view on him has not changed; I'll have to see consistency a lot longer for it to.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

If it was that awful, that terrible, where was the "fire Sh_tty" post before the game? If you lose one game and then start pointing fingers of blame, you're going backward. You're doing what losers do. If MM decides Shotty isn't the Shiz (like we do), now is not the time. You lose more than you gain by firing him now.

Whatever Fritz.

I've called Kurt the worthless turd since he was HIRED. He has no place in Green Bay as far as I'm concerned. It wasn't the Dallas game that made me realize that.

Again...NAME ME ONE YOUNG DB WHO HAS IMPROVED ON SHITTY'S TIME HERE!!! JUST FUCKING ONE!!!

The fact I've asked this three times already in this threas, and you haven't named anyone, proves the point that he should be gone.

Nick Collins
Atari Bigby
Tramon Williams

BuuuuhURN!!!!!!!!

[pbmax]

I cannot believe I wasn't on this thread from last year, although it was easier to complain when the D was worse and we were 4-8 in '06.

Schottenheimer's incompetence may have been overestimated, but I am not quite sold yet. Remember, his specialty is safeties. Bigby has improved, but he still can be lost in coverage and going backwards. Peprah and Culver seemed to improve under him, but Rouse looks close to where he was last year. Bush was a late addition to the safety position after his time at CB in camp, so that's hard to judge him on.

The unknown is Collins. How he rediscovered his game hasn't been dissected anywhere that I am aware of. For two years he seemed to go backwards, but this year he is playing better than he ever has, especially in run support. And he is finding the ball again.

If he helped Collins out, then a big question mark is removed. If it was in spite of rather than because of, then I think KS remains questionable.

[The Gunshooter]

Actually TT should fire the whole damn team except Jennings, Rodgers and Woodson. The rest of them just take turns fucking up.

[SnakeLH2006]

Actually TT should fire the whole damn team except Jennings, Rodgers and Woodson. The rest of them just take turns fucking up.

Woodson will be a helluva coach when he's done. What a FA signing by none other than TT....crazy if you think about it, but that man is a thinking man's CB, as anyone who remembers his Heisman year 10 years ago knows he's lost several steps in speed, but just knows EXACTLY where to be.

[Guiness]

I was one who would have liked to see Schot go, and although the defensive backfield is playing well, I can't say I'm off that wagon yet.

In the past it seemed that he wasn't getting the most out of the good players, and wasn't doing enough to cover for the deficiencies in the marginal players. That seems to have changed this year, where we see one undrafted FA (Williams) and one guy who bounced around (Bigby) playing well. And the guys that should be our marquee players, Harris, Woodson and Collins looking like they are. The other DSs are marginal, and I'm afraid when they're on the field...so he still doesn't seem to be able to gameplan around covering their deficiencies...

Question is are they succeeding because of him, or despite him? I doubt any of us here are in much of a position to judge that.

[SnakeLH2006]

I was one who would have liked to see Schot go, and although the defensive backfield is playing well, I can't say I'm off that wagon yet.

In the past it seemed that he wasn't getting the most out of the good players, and wasn't doing enough to cover for the deficiencies in the marginal players. That seems to have changed this year, where we see one undrafted FA (Williams) and one guy who bounced around (Bigby) playing well. And the guys that should be our marquee players, Harris, Woodson and Collins looking like they are. The other DSs are marginal, and I'm afraid when they're on the field...so he still doesn't seem to be able to gameplan around covering their deficiencies...

Question is are they succeeding because of him, or despite him? I doubt any of us here are in much of a position to judge that.

Yes...Shitty is terrible coach, yet for once we are doing well. Never been a huge Al fan but he is okay other than big games, Woodson doesn't need coaching....Bigby has been a BeastMan when healthy, and for once (albeit ina contract year) Collins has been the man. Do they/or has TT been giving them good talent to coach? I dunno, T-Will has been lights out with no problems as Al's replacement (I'm sure this cements Al's departure this offseason regardless of his injury as just how it goes, but I'm happy) yet Blackmon, Bush, etc. have looked very subpar....I'm leaning towards the coaching as they have off the charts physical skills but look lost. Yes, fire Shitty for the 2nd time.

[Fritz]

I cannot believe I wasn't on this thread from last year, although it was easier to complain when the D was worse and we were 4-8 in '06.

Schottenheimer's incompetence may have been overestimated, but I am not quite sold yet. Remember, his specialty is safeties. Bigby has improved, but he still can be lost in coverage and going backwards. Peprah and Culver seemed to improve under him, but Rouse looks close to where he was last year. Bush was a late addition to the safety position after his time at CB in camp, so that's hard to judge him on.

The unknown is Collins. How he rediscovered his game hasn't been dissected anywhere that I am aware of. For two years he seemed to go backwards, but this year he is playing better than he ever has, especially in run support. And he is finding the ball again.

If he helped Collins out, then a big question mark is removed. If it was in spite of rather than because of, then I think KS remains questionable.

This line just cracked me up, PB.

I'm not a huge Shotty fan, never have been. But now doesn't seem the time to be firing people.

The point I was trying to make last year is that good teams don't just suddenly go off in another direction the minute something doesn't work. That's a sign of failure.

If you want a more aggressive defense (I think they do need it but maybe not this week - Peyton Manning can pick apart a blitz), I think you sit down with Vanilla Bob and explain to him very patiently that Bretsky is very disappointed with the prevent defense being played, and if Ol' Bob would just step it up a bit on the aggression scale everyone would be happier.

[sharpe1027]

This line just cracked me up, PB.

I'm not a huge Shotty fan, never have been. But now doesn't seem the time to be firing people.

The point I was trying to make last year is that good teams don't just suddenly go off in another direction the minute something doesn't work. That's a sign of failure.

If you want a more aggressive defense (I think they do need it but maybe not this week - Peyton Manning can pick apart a blitz), I think you sit down with Vanilla Bob and explain to him very patiently that Bretsky is very disappointed with the prevent defense being played, and if Ol' Bob would just step it up a bit on the aggression scale everyone would be happier.

I see your point, especially if you meant change in the middle of the year. I would agree that the middle of the year is not the best time; however, at the end of the year they should be evaluating all of their coaching staff.

As far as not changing directiong, next year they could go in pretty much the same direction but with a new, more competent DB coach. They just sit the new guy down and say "this is where we are, this is were we want to get". No change of direction necessarily, just a better way of getting where you want to go.