Ed Hochuli

[SkinBasket]

One could argue that anybody on the field is fair game, but Cullen knew that the QB wasn't going to affect the play. He did it to beat up on the QB. It was a stupid play by him and if the rule says you can't do that, he should have no business doing it.

If he wasn't going to affect the play, he would be heading for the sideline, not for the action. It was the refs being overprotective of a player who had his head up his ass and wasn't paying attention.

[]{ilr]3]

I think the foul on Jenkins was that he hit the QB who was, basically, "out of the play." He wasn't attempting to block so he's not part of the play, at least by the rule's standpoint.

The rule would apply to any player, for example a WR or an OL-man. It's used to avoid another Chad Clifton/Warren Sapp incident.

One could argue that anybody on the field is fair game, but Cullen knew that the QB wasn't going to affect the play. He did it to beat up on the QB. It was a stupid play by him and if the rule says you can't do that, he should have no business doing it.

The big difference is that Clifton was blindsided and never saw it coming. Jenkins was right in front of him.

[Sparkey]

Was I the only one who saw Hoculi give the Raiders a 1st down on a 4th and 9 play in the 4th quarter, where not until the packers requested a measurement did he reverse himself and award the packers the ball on downs ?

I remember the Packer on his knees pointing to the ground repeatedly about where they needed to get to the 1st down.

[OS PA]

Was I the only one who saw Hoculi give the Raiders a 1st down on a 4th and 9 play in the 4th quarter, where not until the packers requested a measurement did he reverse himself and award the packers the ball on downs ?

I remember the Packer on his knees pointing to the ground repeatedly about where they needed to get to the 1st down.

I think it was a line judge who initially signaled that the play resulted in a first down. The spot of the ball was correct, but for some reason they didn't feel like a measurement was needed. I'm not sure what changed their minds, other than being wrong in the first place, but they got together and had the chain gang come on the field to measure it out. This didn't really upset me. I'd take officials correcting wrong calls on the field over them not correcting anything!

[The Leaper]

I think it was a line judge who initially signaled that the play resulted in a first down.

I thought only the head ref made that decision and signal. Hoc made that call...and was stupid to do so. It was clearly one that needed to be measured, as a change in possession was riding on it.

I wasn't enamored with the crew. They missed an obvious step OOB on the punt return TD. They took 5 minutes to decide whether or not a Raider, who was CLEARLY tackled, was down on the resulting kickoff return. They screwed up the fumble that we recovered in the endzone. I also though a couple of the penalties on the Raiders were a little questionable.

And what was with the review on Porter's TD? What the hell were they reviewing? He clearly caught the ball and was easily in bounds. I'm not sure why that review was necessary.

They weren't horrible...but they were far from good IMO.

[SkinBasket]

I wasn't enamored with the crew. They missed an obvious step OOB on the punt return TD.

Missed call, yes. Obvious? It was a quarter of his foot that touched the line. Crews have missed worse before and OAK simply wasn't paying attention as far as calling for a review.

They took 5 minutes to decide whether or not a Raider, who was CLEARLY tackled, was down on the resulting kickoff return. They screwed up the fumble that we recovered in the endzone. I also though a couple of the penalties on the Raiders were a little questionable.

I don't remember that call on the return taking anywhere near 5 minutes to decide.

How exactly did they screw up the fumble recovery call again?

There's going to be a few "questionable" calls in every game. No worse than the way Harris and Woodson are flagged in a majority of their games.

And what was with the review on Porter's TD? What the hell were they reviewing? He clearly caught the ball and was easily in bounds. I'm not sure why that review was necessary.

They reviewed whether or not he had stepped out of bounds previous to being the first player to touch the ball.

They weren't horrible...but they were far from good IMO.

I thought they completely overreacted on the personal foul that negated the INT return, as the QB was clearly moving in the direction of the play. The refs took it upon themselves to interpret the QBs motivations, I guess. Other than that, there were a few nit-picky calls, but I thought they weren't any different than any other game this year.

[The Leaper]

Geez, Skinbasket. Are you Hoc's secret lover or something?

The crew clearly made some wrong calls...several were corrected after review/measurement, but it still doesn't change the fact they were wrong the first time. As I pointed out...they weren't horrible, but they weren't that good either. They spent too much time looking at each other and trying to come up with the correct decision...often on plays that were fairly evident to anyone watching the game.

[SkinBasket]

Geez, Skinbasket. Are you Hoc's secret lover or something?

The crew clearly made some wrong calls...several were corrected after review/measurement, but it still doesn't change the fact they were wrong the first time. As I pointed out...they weren't horrible, but they weren't that good either. They spent too much time looking at each other and trying to come up with the correct decision...often on plays that were fairly evident to anyone watching the game.

Evident to you, watching the game on your television. And you want to fault them for actually discussing a call to make sure it's correct? That makes a lot of sense.

They made 1 bad call - the missed foot out of bounds. The rest, while disputable, borderline, or downright petty, were still judgment calls that happen in every game. It what they're out there to do - make those decisions. Just because you or I don't agree with them does not make them wrong.

[The Leaper]

They made 1 bad call - the missed foot out of bounds. The rest, while disputable, borderline, or downright petty, were still judgment calls that happen in every game. It what they're out there to do - make those decisions. Just because you or I don't agree with them does not make them wrong.

So giving the Raiders a first down without question, only to be proven wrong when Green Bay wisely pleaded for a measurement, was an example of genius?

Missing the fumble by Oakland that resulted in a TD was also genius? Sure, it was corrected by replay...but it doesn't change the fact that the refs were WRONG.

Again, I never claimed the crew was horrible. I stated they were mediocre. That in itself is an improvement over some of the other crews we've seen recently. However, I've also seen plenty of crews work a game without any real issues in their decision making. Perhaps this game had tougher calls...but regardless, the refs weren't always on top of their game in Lambeau on Sunday. They blew several calls outright IMO, and then were fortunately corrected on a few others.

Sure, mistakes are part of the process in human judgment. That doesn't mean you just whistle Dixie and label the crew's job appropriate.

[Lurker64]

Really, the best thing about Hochuli is that even though he's wrong sometimes (who isn't?) he does a good job explaining what he's thinking to the audience. So there's very little "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING REF?"

I mean, after he mistakenly gave the Raiders a first down, he came on the mic and said "We were looking at the wrong line, we will measure." Which is a mistake anybody coule make, and the fact that he gives a one line explanation leads me less to think that the refs are incompetent and more to think that they're just people.

I, for one, enjoy Hochuli's perspicacity.

[Carolina_Packer]

Warren Sapp said in postgame comments:

"I don't think Shane has ever had a punt return for a TD, and the dude stepped out of bounds on that one," Sapp said. "Everybody was against us today; that's why we got 38 points put up on us."

I wonder if he was thinking refs when he said everybody. I don't buy his argument. Perhaps it's taken out of context, but if you get your butt beat, you don't cry and say everyone was against us. There were other quotes where he said good things about Favre, but I don't like hearing players say that people were against them, so we got beaten badly. If you sucked or the other team played better, why not say that?

[The Leaper]

I mean, after he mistakenly gave the Raiders a first down, he came on the mic and said "We were looking at the wrong line, we will measure." Which is a mistake anybody coule make, and the fact that he gives a one line explanation leads me less to think that the refs are incompetent and more to think that they're just people.

Of course. That is why I went out of my way to clearly point out the crew WAS NOT HORRIBLE. They seemed to have an off day...they missed several very easy calls and were shaky on a few others.

[MadtownPacker]

The raider had plenty of time to challenge the punt return TD. They didnt, thats on them. All it was gonna do was give the Pack on the ball on the 5 and give Grant another TD.

I just hate it when shit like Harris stripping owens isn't reviewable.

[SkinBasket]

So giving the Raiders a first down without question, only to be proven wrong when Green Bay wisely pleaded for a measurement, was an example of genius?

Missing the fumble by Oakland that resulted in a TD was also genius? Sure, it was corrected by replay...but it doesn't change the fact that the refs were WRONG.

Didn't know they had to be geniuses. All they got to do is call a fair game. Seems like they did that - despite how you personally feel about the calls. Even you admit your examples of egregious calls were both corrected. So what's the problem?

[The Leaper]

So what's the problem?

I never said there was a problem. I just said the crew was rather mediocre, which they were. There are plenty of days I'm mediocre at my job too. I was more trying to point out that even though they did better than most groups we have had to endure recently, they still weren't on top of their game.