Westbrook crush

[The Leaper]

If they had any confidence in their team, they would have scored the points.

So then every team who takes a knee and doesn't try to put more points on the board has no confidence in their team?

[SkinBasket]

If they had any confidence in their team, they would have scored the points.

So then every team who takes a knee and doesn't try to put more points on the board has no confidence in their team?

Trying to extrapolate this into a larger, more generic argument fails unless "every team" in your question also has their running back sit down at the 1 with under two minutes, were up by 4, and the opposing team had no timeouts.

Again, this isn't about the "taking the knee." This is about taking an extreme measure because your team feels it's too incompetent to stop the opponent from scoring 11 points in under two minutes after holding them to 6 for the previous 58 minutes.

[Lurker64]

Again, this isn't about the "taking the knee." This is about taking an extreme measure because your team feels it's too incompetent to stop the opponent from scoring 11 points in under two minutes after holding them to 6 for the previous 58 minutes.

I think this is 100% wrong. Compare if you will:

1) The probability of turning the ball over while kneeling in the victory formation, then allowing the other team to go 99 yards and score a TD in under 2 minutes.

versus

2) The probability of giving up a quick score, an onside kick, and another score.

Moreover consider the probability of injury in each situation and also that the outcome of both scoring and kneeling are, most probably, exactly the same.

Nobody ever fumbles in the victory formation when the QB is kneeling, that's what it's for; the center's only job is to not botch the handoff.. A team should always take the quickest path to victory, particularly when that's also the path of the least resistance. It's not an issue of "having no confidence" it's just that one tactic wins the game with almost 100% certainty, but the other tactic results in a smaller chance of victory and two more minutes of running around while only serving the purpose of padding your stats.

I applaud Westbrook for what he did. I've always hated it when players didn't do the same thing in similar situations. A lot of time a fresh set of downs is more valuable than a score, and it shows football smarts that Westbrook realized that this was one of these cases. I firmly believe that in every situation a football player should take whichever (legal) action that will maximize the probability of his team winning the game.

[Rastak]

Huh? So every kneel down is wrong also? Of course you run down the clock when you can. You DON'T run a pick back when the team has no timeouts.

I'm definately missing the point here Skin......

You are missing the point, actually. It's not about running out the clock with kneel downs (which by the way are also pussy), it about playing like the superior team that they were that night, not like a team that felt they had somehow escaped with a win.

I just think it was a pussy move that showed little or no confidence in their team and only improved their chances of winning by an infinitesimal margin.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't even remotely think that. It was the absolute right thing to do and they did it. I still say it's no difference than when a team let's another team score to allow some time on the clock only in reverse. You are in effect saying....."sorry a-holes, you lose". Teams take a safety to get the free kick when it makes sense. It's playing smart, nothing to do with being "a pussy". Just my humble opinion.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I don't think it was gutless, it was smart. In the old days of college basketball before the shot clock we have now, there used to be stalls when a team got up. Phil Ford of North Carolina was great at running what was called the 4 corners to help run out the clock. That to me was more gutless, but since the shot clock didn't exist, it was a strategy that worked. Why not use what is at your disposal. You often hear the statement, "time is the team's biggest enemy right now" during a game where a team has a lead. Kudos to Runyan and Westbrook for realizing how to salt the game away, since it's ultimately about winning.

Didn't work against a certain small jesuit university for the NCAA championship.

[cpk1994]

I loved the thought behind the play, that a player could still be so selfless in this day of TO and Eli and Moss. I hate the play though.

To me it says, "We know we're the inferior team and instead of playing football and beating you like men, we're going to play keep away for the last two minutes because we're deathly afraid of you."

Huh? So every kneel down is wrong also? Of course you run down the clock when you can. You DON'T run a pick back when the team has no timeouts.

I'm definately missing the point here Skin......

Unless your name is Darren Sharper.

[The Leaper]

Again, this isn't about the "taking the knee." This is about taking an extreme measure because your team feels it's too incompetent to stop the opponent from scoring 11 points in under two minutes after holding them to 6 for the previous 58 minutes.

Did you not see this EXACT SCENARIO occur in the Buffalo game, Skin? Dallas scored a TD in under 2 minutes, recovered an onside kick, and kicked a FG. So, if Philly scores, Dallas has already proven once this season that they were capable of doing PRECISELY what needed to be done to get back in the game.

There is no reason...NONE...to score when the other team has no time outs remaining and you can run the clock down to zero without picking up another first down.

[RashanGary]

If we have the oppurtinity in the playoffs to end it with a knee by passing up an extra TD, I would hope we take it. Winning the game is the most important thing and what the Eagles did assured them a W.

Great move (if you think winning is the only goal, not being a hard ass)

[SkinBasket]

Did you not see this EXACT SCENARIO occur in the Buffalo game, Skin? Dallas scored a TD in under 2 minutes, recovered an onside kick, and kicked a FG. So, if Philly scores, Dallas has already proven once this season that they were capable of doing PRECISELY what needed to be done to get back in the game.

Lending credence to my suggestion that Westbrook did this because Philly was afraid of the Cowboys and sat down at the 1 because he didn't have confidence in his team to prevent these unlikely events from happening.

[Partial]

Skinbasket you sound like Merlin. Fuck man. Don't be a jackass. I don't think they were afraid seeing as they attacked the SHIT out of the Cowboys all game long and clearly were the better team that day. Why risk it? This is really a non-issue. Game over, they won, and they outplayed the Cowboys and exposed some vulnerabilities.

[Tarlam!]

Skin,

you're my "Homie", to borrow from Mad's vocab. But I don't see it as a cowardice act. They pretty much won the game 2 minutes earlier. What's wrong with that?

Defense didn't need to risk an injury. ST's good take the rest of the night off.

This wasn't done out of fear, IMHO. This was done out of smarts.

Translate this scenario into a boxing ring. If I can beat you with a knockout in round 11 and I choose not to throw the punch, because I am ahead on points, I am risking a broken jaw or rib when I don't have to. Why would I do that? Even though I stand to win by decision, I still wanna end it early.

My analogy is not football, but I think I explained it so as you get my drift.

[Harlan Huckleby]

stupid is strength. smart is weak. day becomes the night, night becomes the day. Break on through to the other side!

[The Leaper]

Lending credence to my suggestion that Westbrook did this because Philly was afraid of the Cowboys and sat down at the 1 because he didn't have confidence in his team to prevent these unlikely events from happening.

Again...so any team that takes a knee to run down clock rather than attempting to score is cowardly. That is the only way to correctly move your position forward. If Philly was cowardly for doing the smart thing and essentially ending the game, then ANYONE is cowardly for doing the smart thing. You can't pick and choose what is cowardly.

[SkinBasket]

Again...so any team that takes a knee to run down clock rather than attempting to score is cowardly. That is the only way to correctly move your position forward. If Philly was cowardly for doing the smart thing and essentially ending the game, then ANYONE is cowardly for doing the smart thing. You can't pick and choose what is cowardly.

And again... you keep pressing the "taking the knee." My problem was with sitting at the 1, not the pussy ass kneeling that followed. Playing smart, like taking knees to end the game, is boring. Playing scared, like laying down at the 1, is cowardly.

[SkinBasket]

Skinbasket you sound like Merlin...

And you sound like my butt when I fart. What's that got to do with the Eagles?