A.J. Hawk

[b bulldog]

Below what was expected but just solid

[b bulldog]

Seriously , what did you expect in a Packers forum. I should start a post in the Bears forum and ask, is Urlacher the best LB in the game when healthy?? I bet I'd get 19-20 that would say yes.

[Farley Face]

Below what was expected but just solid

Agree. Thankfully not a bust at #5 overall but I question his odds of evolving into a game changer. And I do not blame that on scheme.

[KYPack]

Interesting observations, Nutz.

I'm just curious, what is an "under" scheme?

I get the "over" and "under" scheme confused, but what I can tell you is that the scheme the Packers play is set up to have Barnett basically free lance, if he feels he can knife through an opening to make a play he can, he has more freedom outside of his base responsibilities, where as the weakside linebacker, is now put into position to play the cut back when the play is run to the strong side of the formation. Hawk has to be more cautious instead of cutting under a block or slicing through openings to make plays, he has to adhere 100% to his responsibilities otherwise guys could be running all day. See Steven Jackson's 47 yard TD romp against the Packer where Poppinga failed to play the cut back correctly and over ran the play.

Don't think the Dep would mind if I answer.

An under is also called an even.

In a 4-3 (which we play) the center is left open.

An over, also called odd, has a man OVER the center.

The Bates/Sanders D plays 95% unders (even). They play Pickett over every once in awhile.

What messes up Hawk is the rest of the alignment. The ends are wide, outside the tackles shoulder. The LB's play sheltered, inside. The idea is to keep the blockers off the backers & lettum make plays. I don't care if the line plays odd or even. I'd like to see Pop on the TE with Hawk outside the DE on the weak side. That would play to both guy's strengths and get them more involved.

What Sanders is doing works, but both players are experienced enuff to try several alignments, so why not try it.

[RashanGary]

Thanks, KY. That is helpfull. I picture our linebackers sort of bunched together 6 yards off the line of scrimmage with both outside linebackers playing inside the tackles and Barnett in the middle. Then I picture a traditional 4-3 with the weakside backer isolated outside the tackle with a lot of free space. I can see the difference now. I always sort of did a double take when I saw the LB's all together the way they are, but I couldn't pinpoint what was odd about it.

This isn't a good scheme for Hawk racking up a big stat line, but it seems to be working so I'm not going to complain about one guy not getting the numbers he's capable of. bulldog is the only guy really harping on Hawk for not putting up big numbers. He makes plays by keeping contain and keeping blocker occupied, but it's not showing up in the stat line so he's easy to overlook. My observation is that he's usually the first to arrive on the scene and when he arrives, he's meeting the first blocker. He seems to have the responsiblity of keeping outside contain, leaving the free inside tackle for Barnett.

The thing I like about our scheme is that it's unusual. I think it could be troublesome because most defenses seem to run a more traditional 4-3 alignment.

[Deputy Nutz]

When Bates brought this scheme to Green Bay I remember media from Miami telling us to get ready to be bored. The scheme is very safe, but I don't know if it is going to ever be the defense for the ages.

No wonder why Zach Thomas was so good, everything gets filter to the middle linebacker.

[superfan]

Right now I'd give Hawk a grade of Solid, assuming you are grading all players in the league on a scale of Elite, Very Good, Solid, Decent, Average. Which of course you are doing.

On that scale, I would give Popp a grade of Decent.

I expect Hawk to be Very Good in a year or two, with an outside shot of getting an Elite grade at some point in his career.

EDIT - didn't notice the "Poor" option in the poll at first.

[Fritz]

I'm a little disappointed in Poppinga. He doesn't make a whole lot of tackles and seems to get pushed out of position fairly often.

Hawk is very solid.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

f****** awesome starter!

[KYPack]

When Bates brought this scheme to Green Bay I remember media from Miami telling us to get ready to be bored. The scheme is very safe, but I don't know if it is going to ever be the defense for the ages.

No wonder why Zach Thomas was so good, everything gets filter to the middle linebacker.

You got it, Bub.

Yeah, Sanders will have to work in other schemes.

The big key to this D is in the backfield. For the Bates D to function, you must have shutdown corners that can play on the island. Our guys are aging & we will have to add schemes when they can't perform.

With our young boys at CB, we would be a good Cover2 Buck defense. That would help a number of our players.

[Fritz]

I'll bet TT is scouring the game tapes of a young corner from Wyoming Technical Institute as we speak.

[The Leaper]

Hawk is a very good starter. He just doesn't make many mistakes. The coaches are confident enough to allow him to cover WRs in some instances. That should tell you a lot about just how good Hawk is.

I agree with Nutz that Hawk is handcuffed by the scheme, which is designed to flow everything to the MLB. That means Hawk has to maintain his responsibilities and doesn't have a chance to make as many plays as he probably could. The cutback run by Jackson against Poppinga is a perfect example of a play you just don't see happen on Hawk's side of the field.

Last year, Hawk had better numbers because teams ran at KGB...and Hawk was typically lining up behind KGB. That gave him a chance to make more plays. This year, the DL doesn't have as clear of a weak link against the run, so Hawk's chances have been greatly decreased.

[RashanGary]

nfldraftcountdown has us taking Aqib Talib, CB. I could see that happening. He's big, strong, fast enough and has good ball skills.

[Jerry Tagge]

Solid starter even if he played his college ball at Ohio State.

I would have voted greatest LB of all time if he had played his college ball at Michigan.

[b bulldog]

Just the QB at UM will be voted greatest of alltime