Wisconsin Primary

[Harlan Huckleby]

Obama leads in delegates from primaries and caucuses 981-910.

You would think that would be a solid number, but different news organizations have different totals. I saw two with Hillary ahead.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The idea was that if a candidate had the highest amount of pledged delegates among all of the other candidates but not enough pledged delegates to obtain the nomination (in this case 2,025) Super Delegates were supposed to wait until after all the votes were cast and then throw their support behind the leading candidate, thus avoiding a brokered convention.

I think this is blarney. Show me a source.

[Harlan Huckleby]

If the number of people voting in the primaries is a precursor of what will happen in the general election, then the Democrats will win in a landslide. They've had more people showing up everywhere. In some states it's been as much as 3-1. I still think it will be a very close election though.

I think another factor going on in Florida is that it is no longer Jeb Bush's state. He was a popular governor, I expect he helped GW considerably in 2000, 2004.

I think Florida is a purple state, it could go either way. McCain would do well to pick up the Governor as VP, that Jesus Crist guy.

[Joemailman]

What could be more undemocratic than the super delegates reversing the wishes of the voters? It sounds like maybe you want the super delegates to hand Hillary a victory she can't win with the voters.

By the way, Obama is the projected winner in Maine.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23098411/

[BallHawk]

The idea was that if a candidate had the highest amount of pledged delegates among all of the other candidates but not enough pledged delegates to obtain the nomination (in this case 2,025) Super Delegates were supposed to wait until after all the votes were cast and then throw their support behind the leading candidate, thus avoiding a brokered convention.

I think this is blarney. Show me a source.

Chuck Todd, NBC's senior political director, was talking about it today on Meet the Press.

[Joemailman]

What Dean needs to do is get these uncommitted delegates not to commit to anyone now. Then once the primaries are over, these delegates should back the candidate that won the most delegates in the primaries and caucuses.

Huh? Why? The Super Delegates were created to act independently, not to rubber stamp the pledge delegates. They can decide whenever they want and for whoever they want. The idea is that they are extra wise people and can look out better for the party, act as a counterweight to popular passions.

If you are worried about democracy, throw out the caucus results and hold primaries to find out what the voters think.

What could be more undemocratic than the super delegates reversing the wishes of the voters? It sounds like maybe you want the super delegates to hand Hillary a victory she can't win with the voters.

By the way, Obama is the projected winner in Maine.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23098411/

[BallHawk]

Okay, maybe my explanation was a little off, here is an explanation from newsday.com

Super delegates were created as part of the Democratic Party reforms after the debacle of 1972, when a too-liberal candidate, Sen. George McGovern, made it to the head of the ticket. The reforms emphasized the proportional allocation of delegates in primaries and the selection of super delegates who could provide the ballast needed in close contests or could guide the party away from a disastrous choice. They were to be "a safety valve," as one super delegate put it recently.

So the super delegates had more uses than just one specific one.

[Partial]

McCain is a powerhouse of a candidate because he'll still get the republican votes yet steal some of the democrats.

Really, Partial?

Well, he's going to have to steal a helluva lot of Democrats to make up for the number of conservatives that are going to be sitting at home on election day.

You're crazy. You think the 30-70 people are not going to show up to vote?? They may not be crazy about McCain but they'll still pledge their republican vote proudly that day and make their voice heard. This is the age group that gets out in full-force every year. That was a really dumb comment to make man.

[Harlan Huckleby]

What could be more undemocratic than the super delegates reversing the wishes of the voters? It sounds like maybe you want the super delegates to hand Hillary a victory she can't win with the voters.

Well, first all, the "wishes of the voters" are not well indicated by all the caucus states that he won. I suspect Hillary would win the popular vote handily if full primary elections were held in all states.

I agree that superdelegates are undemocratic. Excluding the Florida voters was also undemocratic. Caucuses are undemocratic. All the chicanery is stupid.

The Super Delegates ARE voters. They should be able to vote any way they want, whenever they want, and by the rules they count as much as the pledge delegates.
Hillary wins if she gets the most delegates, super + pledge combined, and I certainly would expect Barak supporters to respect that result.

You don't think the rules should be changed midstream, do you?

[BallHawk]

McCain is a powerhouse of a candidate because he'll still get the republican votes yet steal some of the democrats.

Really, Partial?

Well, he's going to have to steal a helluva lot of Democrats to make up for the number of conservatives that are going to be sitting at home on election day.

You're crazy. You think the 30-70 people are not going to show up to vote?? They may not be crazy about McCain but they'll still pledge their republican vote proudly that day and make their voice heard. This is the age group that gets out in full-force every year. That was a really dumb comment to make man.

Jesus Chirst, Partial......

Yes, I do! Why do you think McCain is going around trying to shmooze the conservative base? Do you think it is a coincidence that we are seeing all of these conservative talk-show hosts speak out against McCain? Partial, the republican establishment does not want McCain. While he's not the liberal some paint him to be he still leans to the left on issues and has muddled across party lines.

Listen to a C-Span call in show. You will hear people, real people that don't have their heads in the cloud, show their skepticism about McCain.

Maybe in your little bubble you can skew the information to come out with logical statements, but the truth is that some conservatives will stay home on election day.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Okay, maybe my explanation was a little off, here is an explanation from newsday.com

Super delegates were created as part of the Democratic Party reforms after the debacle of 1972, when a too-liberal candidate, Sen. George McGovern, made it to the head of the ticket. The reforms emphasized the proportional allocation of delegates in primaries and the selection of super delegates who could provide the ballast needed in close contests or could guide the party away from a disastrous choice. They were to be "a safety valve," as one super delegate put it recently.

So the super delegates had more uses than just one specific one.

The Super delegates are a crazy idea. "ballast" means they are there to be a counterweight to the popular will.

I understand that Obama supporters are gonna be upset, but those are the rules of the game.

[Iron Mike]

What could be more undemocratic than the super delegates reversing the wishes of the voters?

Mmmmmm.......the electoral college voting in opposition to the popular vote?

[Partial]

I'm not going to bother responding to that. There is a lot more to voting than a presidential selection. That, and if you think they're going to give up their voice when they're at an age where plenty of their friends, coworkers, and family members fought for freedom and died, you're off your rocker.

Stats show everything you need to know. If you don't think the older voters are going to be out in full-force that day, then I don't even know what to say.

[Joemailman]

McCain is not the maverick he once was. He is now the establishment Republican candidate, and doesn't have the appeal among moderate Democrats he once had. Bush is now calling McCain a true Conservative. That should be enough to deter Democrats from voting for McCain.

[Harlan Huckleby]

What could be more undemocratic than the super delegates reversing the wishes of the voters?

Mmmmmm.......the electoral college voting in opposition to the popular vote?

No, that is not quite the analogy.

The Pledge Delegates are similar to the electoral college, they are SUPPOSED to follow the popular vote. (Actually I don't think they are bound either.)

The Super Delegates are BY DESIGN supposed to be independent of the vote. They are independent voters themselves who are free to choose who they think will be best for the party.