Minorities in America

[Deputy Nutz]

Let me sum it up, it is ground breaking that a black man or woman is going to win a democratic nomination for the first time in the history of this country. It is pretty amazing regardless of what you think of there qualifications. The world in the United States bubble is a changing.

4th, you need to chill you want others to be respectful and decent when talking politics, I think you might be walking a fine line between exuberance of your expressed views and disrespect for what others are trying to convey.

[Patler]

Well, the FEW here that have spoken must not understand history. How can anyone act as if this isn't an unbelievable time in our nation's history. A WOMAN and A BLACK MAN are runnig and winning the primaries. To simply state that this election is 'hohum' nothing special, or noone that excites you speaks volumes.

Apparently, I was already voting for Presidents when most of you were born. I experienced the civil rights movement first hand, riots, demonstrations, tear gas and all. The fact that many now take a "hohum" attitude to the minority presidential candidates is an unequivocal indicator that the country has passed the sterotypes that existed. The fact that people slough it off is a GOOD thing. The minority candidates SHOULD be treated just like any other candidate.

The truely remarkable times were when minorities were first becoming mayors of major cities, legislators, judges, CEOs, etc. When some first dared to even announce candidacy for President. Many of us think it is nothing special now because of those early pioneers, and the fact that we encounter minorities of all types in positions of power and influence every day. It is nothing special because the world has seen the Margret Thatchers and others on the international political scene for years.

It shocks me that you would think living in the White House somehow is vast experience when compared to the many candidates we have had with varied experience for many years and/or EXTENSIVE legislative experience. The fact is that Clinton and Obama are not very experienced at all.

I'm not saying there are not still prejudices, there always will be, and not just for women and minorities.

[Scott Campbell]

When we elect a minority or woman and its no longer a big deal, then you'll know we've arrived.

[Patler]

There was more controversy in 1960 over that fact that Kennedy was Catholic than there is today about a female and a black candidate. I look at that as a very good thing.

[MJZiggy]

There was more controversy in 1960 over that fact that Kennedy was Catholic than there is today about a female and a black candidate. I look at that as a very good thing.

That's because they're just a woman and a black man. If they elected Kennedy, he might have had to listen to the POPE!!!

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Nice post and good point,. . .honey.

You are making Ty very jealous.

[4and12to12and4]

Well, the FEW here that have spoken must not understand history. How can anyone act as if this isn't an unbelievable time in our nation's history. A WOMAN and A BLACK MAN are runnig and winning the primaries. To simply state that this election is 'hohum' nothing special, or noone that excites you speaks volumes.

Apparently, I was already voting for Presidents when most of you were born. I experienced the civil rights movement first hand, riots, demonstrations, tear gas and all. The fact that many now take a "hohum" attitude to the minority presidential candidates is an unequivocal indicator that the country has passed the sterotypes that existed. The fact that people slough it off is a GOOD thing. The minority candidates SHOULD be treated just like any other candidate.

The truely remarkable times were when minorities were first becoming mayors of major cities, legislators, judges, CEOs, etc. When some first dared to even announce candidacy for President. Many of us think it is nothing special now because of those early pioneers, and the fact that we encounter minorities of all types in positions of power and influence every day. It is nothing special because the world has seen the Margret Thatchers and others on the international political scene for years.

It shocks me that you would think living in the White House somehow is vast experience when compared to the many candidates we have had with varied experience for many years and/or EXTENSIVE legislative experience. The fact is that Clinton and Obama are not very experienced at all.

I'm not saying there are not still prejudices, there always will be, and not just for women and minorities.

I agree with every point you make, but Patler, you have to admit that regardless of how far women and minorities have come in this day and age, it is a HUGE step if we actually elect either or as the leader of the most powerful country in the world. I mean, look how big a deal it was when Coach Dungy won the Superbowl That was a friggin' football game. This is arguably the greatest country in written history (besides ancient Rome). That is why am so pasionate about this. In a country run by white men, where even Tiger Woods had to overcome racial indifference, I am in utter shock that these two are even running, let alone winning the primaries. It is truly an amazing time in American history. That is all I am saying, and it seems as if some here don't realize it, or are opposed to it as so many of my racist friends are. Example, my wife has always told me that she doesn't want my daughters to marry a black man because "it would be a harder life for them". That argument had more weight 15 years ago, yet even then I knew she said it because she was racist. She still uses that argument today, and it's actually funny to me. That's why I suggested those here to look in the mirror and see why you really don't think it's a big deal that these two are so close to history, just look in the mirror.

[CyclonePackFan]

I agree with every point you make, but Patler, you have to admit that regardless of how far women and minorities have come in this day and age, it is a HUGE step if we actually elect either or as the leader of the most powerful country in the world. I mean, look how big a deal it was when Coach Dungy won the Superbowl That was a friggin' football game. This is arguably the greatest country in written history (besides ancient Rome). That is why am so pasionate about this. In a country run by white men, where even Tiger Woods had to overcome racial indifference, I am in utter shock that these two are even running, let alone winning the primaries. It is truly an amazing time in American history. That is all I am saying, and it seems as if some here don't realize it, or are opposed to it as so many of my racist friends are. Example, my wife has always told me that she doesn't want my daughters to marry a black man because "it would be a harder life for them". That argument had more weight 15 years ago, yet even then I knew she said it because she was racist. She still uses that argument today, and it's actually funny to me. That's why I suggested those here to look in the mirror and see why you really don't think it's a big deal that these two are so close to history, just look in the mirror.

For the record, I don't think it's a big deal. Yet. Is it a good thing that we have a woman and an African-American running for the highest office in the land? Absolutely. Is it significant? Definitely. However, I don't consider it a big deal until they win (as you said in the first sentence). There's an assumption in here that I'm not willing to make yet, that we as a country have come far enough that it really doesn't matter anymore. Just because these two are leading the primaries in the Democratic Party (which has a strong base in both women and African-Americans) doesn't mean it applies to the rest of the country. Have we come a long way since the sixties? Yes. Are we there yet? We'll find out. I personally still think there might be enough closet racism and bigotry in this country to keep either Hillary or Obama out of office. How many people are going to come out of the woodwork with the "Anything but a black man/woman" attitude? What does it say about the country if Barack or Hillary run and lose, or worse yet, become another RFK?

I'll reserve my excitement until November 5th.

[Patler]

I agree with every point you make, but Patler, you have to admit that regardless of how far women and minorities have come in this day and age, it is a HUGE step if we actually elect either or as the leader of the most powerful country in the world. I mean, look how big a deal it was when Coach Dungy won the Superbowl That was a friggin' football game. This is arguably the greatest country in written history (besides ancient Rome). That is why am so pasionate about this. In a country run by white men, where even Tiger Woods had to overcome racial indifference, I am in utter shock that these two are even running, let alone winning the primaries. It is truly an amazing time in American history. That is all I am saying, and it seems as if some here don't realize it, or are opposed to it as so many of my racist friends are. Example, my wife has always told me that she doesn't want my daughters to marry a black man because "it would be a harder life for them". That argument had more weight 15 years ago, yet even then I knew she said it because she was racist. She still uses that argument today, and it's actually funny to me. That's why I suggested those here to look in the mirror and see why you really don't think it's a big deal that these two are so close to history, just look in the mirror.

Sorry, I disagree. It is not a huge step. It is just the next step. There has been a protracted progression leading to the eventual election of a woman or a minority, whenever it finally occurs. The truly huge steps were taken years ago when women and minorities first became legitimate political figures. Once that happened, it was just a matter of time until one would be elected President. The fact that one most likely will be elected this year is merely anecdotal.

[Harlan Huckleby]

have to say I completely agree with Patler.

It's good to see a black or broad in the presidency, valuable symbolically.

But after all the shouting and celebrating is over, it's not going to change that much. It's not that critical whether the breakthrough is this year or 20 years from now. The broader movement is far more important.

India had a female leader 30 years ago. Didn't put an end to widows being burned to death on the funeral pyre of their husbands.

[HarveyWallbangers]

However, I don't consider it a big deal until they win (as you said in the first sentence). There's an assumption in here that I'm not willing to make yet, that we as a country have come far enough that it really doesn't matter anymore. Just because these two are leading the primaries in the Democratic Party (which has a strong base in both women and African-Americans) doesn't mean it applies to the rest of the country. Have we come a long way since the sixties? Yes. Are we there yet? We'll find out.

I disagree with this. If I felt either candidate was really strong, and they lost, then it would prove something. Hilary is the great polarizer. Whether she wins or losses has little to do with her gender, IMHO. Obama has a 1/2 stint as a Senator and no other experience on a national level. He's a much better candidate than Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, but I could see him losing a fair fight on his credentials alone. To me, Obama is like Colin Powell and Condi Rice in that they are impressive people who people want to do well--that aren't out to divide the country on racial lines (like Jackson and Sharpton have done). That's a step in the right direction. If Obama loses, it won't signal an end to his presidential aspirations. In fact, getting some experience on the Cabinet or something like that might bode well for his future prospects. I know Harlan is big on the Hilary bandwagon, but I believe there have been better female presidential candidates that have come along.

[HarveyWallbangers]

BTW, the whole theme of this thread seems to prey on a long-running concept of white guilt. I, for one, won't feel guilty about not voting for a black or woman candidate if I don't feel they are the best candidate or qualified to be President. When a woman or black candidate (or Hispanic, Asian, etc.) comes along that I feel strongly about, I'll have no inhibitions about voting for them.

[Zool]

BTW, the whole theme of this thread seems to prey on a long-running concept of white guilt. I, for one, won't feel guilty about not voting for a black or woman candidate if I don't feel they are the best candidate or qualified to be President. When a woman or black candidate (or Hispanic, Asian, etc.) comes along that I feel strongly about, I'll have no inhibitions about voting for them.

From now on Harv, when I want to say something and not come across combative, I'll PM you and you translate.

[the_idle_threat]

BTW, the whole theme of this thread seems to prey on a long-running concept of white guilt. I, for one, won't feel guilty about not voting for a black or woman candidate if I don't feel they are the best candidate or qualified to be President. When a woman or black candidate (or Hispanic, Asian, etc.) comes along that I feel strongly about, I'll have no inhibitions about voting for them.

From now on Harv, when I want to say something and not come across combative, I'll PM you and you translate.

Seconded.

[SkinBasket]

Re: Minorities in America

The fact that Hillary and Barak are winning almost all the primaries is astounding and shows us that America's youth are decidedly sick and tired of being lied to and are actively looking for change. Whether or not either democratic nominee can offer that is yet to be seen, but the voice of America is screaming out and showing it's disgust ... FINALLY.

Ummm... You do realize that the Democrats and Republicans have separate primaries right?

Hillary and Obama are winning the [democratic] primaries because they are the only two democratic candidates. They aren't running against anyone else - especially not a republican (I'm assuming that's the "change" you're referring to).

You think having a woman or black president will be revolutionary? I think it will be more revolutionary when more Americans understand the process of actually electing said president. Unfortunately we seem to be headed in the other direction.