OFFICIAL WORLD CUP 2006

[Fosco33]

I categorically deny...blah blah blah"

You totally said this you piece of trash.

He probably did it. But unless they've got a recording or can get a shot and read his lips - it's he said/he said.

What would be the normal course of action for name calling in FIFA? Is the punishment as bad as it would be for a head butt to the chest?

[No Mo Moss]

Yes, any racial or hertiage slur would result in major action by FIFA. And right now with a race relations issue coming to a head in Italy, France, Spain and others FIFA would act very swiftly. For example if a soccer clubs fans are linked to racial motivated antics, that team can be relegated (kicked into the minor leagues). Very serious.

[MJZiggy]

According to reports an interview he did either this morning or yesterday, Zidane said that Materazzi insulted his mother and sister and apologized to all the young impressionable people who might have been watching the match but that he did not regret what he did because that might indicate that he condoned what Materazzi said

[Noodle]

Am I alone in not being that put out by what Zidane did? Yeah, it was stupid, yeah, he got owned, but I don't see it as some horrific act like some, especially in Europe, are describing it.

I'll tell you what's horrific -- busting into a guy's knees in a way that could end his career or chopping him down from behind. Check out some of this footage regarding poor ol' Materazzi: http://youtube.com/watch?v=rKGcUr0S-...zzi%20entradas , especially the whacking he puts on the black player in the corner.

Zidane went in straight up. It wasn't going to end Materazzi's career, but it was going to say "Enough!" Zidane should have kept it together, but his blow up was at least executed in an honorable fashion.

And don't tell me I don't know the game. I've been playing for longer than most folks on this forum have been alive (which is really a testament to how pathetically old I am).

[MJZiggy]

The question then becomes, at what point is it ok to take someone's words and retaliate physically? Mat was trying to get a rise out of Zidane, trying to knock him off his game, hurling anything he could think at him. When is it appropriate to turn around and clobber him? I'd say Materazzi got what he wanted. I'm not condoning anything that Materazzi may have said or done in his career, but at a crucial time like that, I think it would be prudent to "use your words" or at least wait until you don't have a billion people watching you.

[Noodle]

Ziggy, I agree with you. Zidane let his team down by losing his cool. The red card was deserved. Zidane shouldn't have done it, and it will be a huge black mark on the legacy of his career.

Jackie Robinson took a ton of crap and showed he was the better man by not retaliating. Zidane reacted to a provocation that pales next to what Robinson put up with. So again, I think Zidane made a huge mistake by playing in to the hands of the thug.

All I'm saying is that he could have done a lot worse, and maybe have gotten away with it. He didn't lay a career-ender on the guy. So I'm not going to get all outraged about it. I'm just going to be sad.

[FavreChild]

Am I alone in not being that put out by what Zidane did? Yeah, it was stupid, yeah, he got owned, but I don't see it as some horrific act like some, especially in Europe, are describing it.

Right on!

I mean, I appreciate that the World Cup has come into mainstream American discussion. But it's unfortunate - yet predictable - that it had to take an act of violence to do it.

After all, c'mon...is this really so "shocking" or "controversial" compared to the crap that goes on in American sports? We have violent criminals not only participating but being heralded in our pro sports (see: Kobe Bryant, Ray Lewis), let alone just "poor sports" like Zidane. Oh yeah, we also have athletes attacking FANS in the stands. Not to mention the commonplace personal fouls, like the Michael Pittman spit, Warren Sapp's hit on Cliffy, and the obligatory, intentional bean balls. (I needn't go on, but there are about a million examples.)

Not to minimize what happened in the World Cup final, but for any of us American to act as though we are "shocked" but the event is a total eye-roller. Ya know??

[HarveyWallbangers]

No Mo, you seem to be throwing Materazzi under the bus. Maybe it's because of the racist incidents that have been going on in Italy. Maybe it's your liberal leanings. However, Zidane admitted today that Materazzi didn't call him a "dirty terrorist" or racial slur. Zidane told him they could exchange shirts after the game (Materazzi was holding his jersey), and the dude talked some trash about taking the shirt of Zidane's sister and Mom or something.

Like Noodle, I don't see it as a horrific deal either, but I don't think you can blame Materazzi. I doubt what he said hasn't been said on an NBA court or football field numerous times over.

Blame Zidane. Somebody talked serious trash, and he lost control.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Not to minimize what happened in the World Cup final, but for any of us American to act as though we are "shocked" but the event is a total eye-roller. Ya know??

Where did this come from? Most Americans couldn't care less what Zidane did. I don't think there's too many who were "shocked" by it. I think Noodle's point is that 1/2 of Europe is having a cow over it.

I AM shocked that European countries don't seem to be doing anything concrete to combat the racist acts that have been happening all over there (monkey sounds, racial slurs, taunts, etc.). I AM shocked that Latin American countries don't seem to be doing anything concrete to combat their fans from throwing batteries, urine, etc. on our soccer players. I am NOT shocked by Zidane, and I doubt that many people here are.

[FavreChild]

OK, well, it's only been discussed for two pages here...top of the discussion on major sports talk shows (radio and TV) on Monday thru today. So...yeah...it's been a hot topic.

My point, again, is that it wasn't really so controversial compared to what goes on here. Sure, the Europeans are up in arms about it, and that's OK! This is a huge deal in Europe.

But let's not pretend it's a big deal here. Not because it's World Cup...but because that behavior is expected here.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Re-read the last two pages. I don't shock would describe what people felt. It wasn't like people were being hypocritical about it. I think most here just feel he was stupid for doing it.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Good take.

History of violence
Gabriele Marcotti, SI.com

The French singer Jean-Louis Murat summed up Zindine Zidane like this: "Nobody knows if Zidane is an angel or a demon ... He smiles like Saint Teresa and grimaces like a serial killer."

Murat is a huge Zizou fan and there is a fair dose of truth in those words. His genius has always had a dark side, as evidenced by the 14 red cards he collected in his career. The last month showed him at his best -- when, as one paper put it, he was the only "Brazilian" on the pitch when France played Brazil -- and at his worst, when he head-butted Marco Materazzi in the World Cup final.

His final public appearance, Wednesday night, could have offered some degree of redemption, but, instead, it was more darkness than light.

Zidane said Materazzi provoked him by insulting his mother and sister. And he said that while he apologized to the "children" who had witnessed the incident (but, bizarrely, nobody else who might not have enjoyed seeing a grown man assault another adult) he had no regrets and would do it all over again.

"I tell myself that if things happened this way, it's because somewhere up there it was decided that way," he added.

That last part was perhaps the most absurd. Blaming God -- or whatever deity you believe in -- for your actions borders on the demented. Whatever your religion, one thing they all share is that there is a degree of free will, that God gives you the power to make your own decisions. The "God wanted it that way" defense (and it's not-so-distant cousin the "God made me do it" defense) is particularly hard to swallow.

Beyond that, discovering that Materazzi had "only" insulted Zidane's mother and sister was a bit of a letdown. Anybody who has played any kind of competitive team sport at any level (with the possible exception of volleyball and polo) will have heard a fair amount of trash talking.

It's ugly, sure. It's childish, absolutely. But most people do not snap and head-butt opponents when their mother is insulted, particularly when that insult occurs in the private sphere of two men at close quarters on a soccer pitch.

The fact that Zidane did not elaborate on the nature of the insult only adds to the confusion. What horrible thing could Materazzi have said that would prompt such a reaction in a normal person?

The answer is ... nothing. Insults of that nature hurt the most when they come from someone who actually knows you (or your mother). Materazzi has never met Zidane's mother or his sister. He only knows Zidane as an opponent. And, if he did insult either one, most would have taken it and responded in kind.

Of course, the whole matter of whether Materazzi even insulted Mrs. Zidane is open to debate. The Inter defender denies it in the strongest terms: though he admits to insulting the French captain, albeit in a way which is common in sporting arenas everywhere. Who you believe on this point is a matter of personal choice. I've known Materazzi for eight years, I know that his mother died when he was 15, there is no doubt in my mind that, when it comes to mothers, he treads very carefully. But then, maybe I'm biased, because I know and like Materazzi.

But even if one chooses to believe Zidane, it's difficult to reach any other conclusion than this: his act was indefensible and he certainly did not help himself with his explanation, particularly when he suggested that he would do the exact same thing again if faced with the same situation.

A more plausible explanation for Zidane's actions is that he was simply exhausted and frustrated and he lost control, just as he did so many times before. It started in 1993, when he got into a fist fight with Marcel Desailly, it continued through a career which saw him stomp on a Saudi defender, punch Parma's Enrico Chiesa, head-butt a Hamburg player, lash out at Villarreal's Quique Alvarez and, finally, nail Materazzi.

Some people are like that. They're human. Zidane was blessed with an outrageous amount of talent, as well as the intelligence and work ethic to make the best of it. But he's not perfect. The price of all that was a short fuse, a red mist that occasionally engulfed him.

Zidane will no doubt be criticized for not apologizing. But there are few things worse than an empty apology. If he doesn't feel sorry, he shouldn't apologize. By not apologizing, at the very least, he is staying true to himself. If that's the way he is, so be it. You either love him or hate him.

It's genuinely sad that this happened in the final professional game of his career. But only the ignorant will remember him for this. Those who love the game will remember him for the thrills and delight he offered up so many times, for the sheer elegance of his game and for the way teammates looked up to him.

At least, that's what I'll remember.

Zidane's words - -and Materazzi's response -- will hopefully put an end to this squalid affair. But there is another category of people who really should not go unpunished.

Materazzi saw his name dragged through the mud by scumbags and muckrakers with nothing better to do.

A Paris-based group called "SOS-Racism" said Materazzi called Zidane -- who is of North African descent -- a "terrorist". So-called expert lip-readers confirmed this.

Mokhtar Haddad, Zidane's cousin, told the New York Times that Materazzi called him "either a terrorist or a son of Harkis" (a reference to the Algerian revolutionaries who helped defeat France in that country's war for independence).

Others freely called Materazzi a racist and a xenophobe.

Too bad for all these supposed experts and clairvoyants that Zidane himself confirmed that Materazzi's insult was not racist in nature and that he was never called a terrorist (much less a "son of Harkis" -- as if anyone with an IQ over 60 would ever believe that Materazzi has even heard of Harkis).

Those are the people who should be apologizing to Materazzi, the people who blackened someone's name, throwing out baseless accusations, the people who -- in their frenzy to figuratively burn someone at the stake -- accused an innocent man without a shred of credible evidence (and no, those lip-readers' fantasies do not constitute credible evidence). The people who ignored Zidane's teammate and possibly the French team's most intelligent and sensitive player, Lilian Thuram (a guy who knows a thing or two about racism) when he categorically said there "was no racial slur".

The worst thing about this is that when you make a baseless accusation of racism it's like the boy who cried wolf. When you next flag up racism, people will take your words with a bucketful of salt.

I hope Materazzi sues their behinds off and donates the proceeds to organizations that are serious about fighting racism in all walks of life.

[FavreChild]

Whatever.

Of course it's fake shock, and we all know it. That is exactly my point. Why pretend? WHY the manufactured outrage?

That's all I'm going to say, 'cause you keep going around my point to subvert it. It's not that important.

[HarveyWallbangers]

My point, again, is that it wasn't really so controversial compared to what goes on here. Sure, the Europeans are up in arms about it, and that's OK! This is a huge deal in Europe.

But let's not pretend it's a big deal here. Not because it's World Cup...but because that behavior is expected here.

That's what I take issue with. You are making it sound like Europe doesn't normally have these problems. Wrong! It's a shock there because this happened in what is the equivalent of 10 times the Super Bowl over there--not because this is unusual. They've had incidents over there as bad or worse than what's gone on here. You just haven't heard about most of them. It's not a shock here because people don't care about soccer. If Brett Favre got thrown out of the Super Bowl in the 4th quarter of a tie game for doing the same thing, it would be a huge issue here.

[No Mo Moss]

No Mo, you seem to be throwing Materazzi under the bus. Maybe it's because of the racist incidents that have been going on in Italy. Maybe it's your liberal leanings. However, Zidane admitted today that Materazzi didn't call him a "dirty terrorist" or racial slur. Zidane told him they could exchange shirts after the game (Materazzi was holding his jersey), and the dude talked some trash about taking the shirt of Zidane's sister and Mom or something.

Like Noodle, I don't see it as a horrific deal either, but I don't think you can blame Materazzi. I doubt what he said hasn't been said on an NBA court or football field numerous times over.

Blame Zidane. Somebody talked serious trash, and he lost control.

Just like a true righty, use the "liberal" word in reference to absolutely nothing relavent..

I don't Condone what Zidane did, its sad.
But Materazzi has been under the bus for years Harv. I've been watching this crap he pulls for years. In England last year he was particularly disgusting. He's racist trash and shouldn't ever be mentioned with Zidane. Zidane was an incredible player and his head butt does nothing to me to think of him as any less of a player. Before that world vup he had already proved himself as the greatest European player ever.

Materazzi was just the same trash before the world cup has he is now.