What's it take to be governor in NY or NJ?

[GoPackGo]

I think its naive and foolish to attempt to apply these standards to politicians.

And why is it naive to think someone we trust in public office should be able to hold a promise to their spouse (or life partner as the case may be) as much as they are trusted with keeping promises to their electorate?

I know it's easier for you to make all these stories about sex instead of the underlying issues of trust, honesty, and integrity - not to mention common fucking sense - of elected officials, but they are politicians, not pornstars that need excuses for their poor decisions and substandard character.

There is nothing wrong with what you say in principle, just a lot of bad practical consequences:

1) The most successful presidents in the last century had affairs, the least successful were faithful to their wives. Really, end of argument. We can't afford to toss-out people for reasons that emperically have proven to be irrelevant at best.
2) Putting the focus on personal lives encourages mass hypocracy. Well, that's pretty much what we have now. Gay politicians in unhappy heterosexual marriages. Trotting-out wives to bless indescretions. On and on.
3) We have too much mudslinging in politics. Making love lives campaign issues just encourages dirty tricks and blackmailing. We want to move AWAY from this destructive time-wasting, not towards it.

I think the point of this whole thing is that if you are not smart enough to keep your meetings with prostitutes a secret, and also not smart enough to know that allowing tag teams with your wife could be fun but would eventually end badly, than you probably shouldn't be representing the population of a state who wouldn't have voted for you if they really knew you.
These politicians are idiots and the citizens of New York and New Jersey should be outraged.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I don't know, GoPackGo, it took the FBI and wiretaps to catch #9.

Bubba's blow jobs were pretty outrageously reckless.

People are very different in thier love lives than in their business lives. Spitzer was INCREDIBLY competent and precise as a legal eagle.

You are really calling for improved secrecy and hypocracy. I say just stay away from the sex lives of politicians. Of course we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[GoPackGo]

You are really calling for improved secrecy and hypocracy. I say just stay away from the sex lives of politicians. Of course we'll just have to agree to disagree.

These guys are playing with fire but they aren't smart enough to not let it burn their own house down. I guess I like to think I have higher standards I expect from politicians. That probably explains why I'm always unhappy with my choices of who to vote for

[SkinBasket]

The key point you seem to be missing is that the difference between politician and porn star ain't what it used to be. We fight like hell to ignore the roles that Hollywood and mass media play in what matters most to us. But at least since Reagan, if not JFK or even before, our politicians have at a very fundamental level been actors. And bad ones at that. All of this moral indignation against Spitzer is really just anger at him for having shown us a truth we didn't want to see.

I'm not missing any key points. I expect an elected official to perform their job the same way I would any other employee in any other job. I feel no moral indignation toward Spitzer or any other politician who can't maintain a minimum level of human decency while in office. I simply feel they are failing in their job duties and making excuses for them isn't in my interest.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I simply feel they are failing in their job duties and making excuses for them isn't in my interest.

sex lives are part of job duties?

[SkinBasket]

1) The most successful presidents in the last century had affairs, the least successful were faithful to their wives. Really, end of argument. We can't afford to toss-out people for reasons that emperically have proven to be irrelevant at best.

Very scientific. I'm sure the two are directly related. Just like pirates and global warming.

2) Putting the focus on personal lives encourages mass hypocracy. Well, that's pretty much what we have now. Gay politicians in unhappy heterosexual marriages. Trotting-out wives to bless indescretions. On and on.

Who called for a focus on personal lives? Simply maintaining the standards the average man lives by while being paid by that average man to represent him is enough. I'm also pretty sure that you don't really understand what the word hypocrisy means. Unless "hypocracy" has a different meaning than hypocrisy. As it is, you tend to use it like your getaway vehicle.

3) We have too much mudslinging in politics. Making love lives campaign issues just encourages dirty tricks and blackmailing. We want to move AWAY from this destructive time-wasting, not towards it.

Yeah, we're much better off if we ignore gaping holes in a candidate's character and integrity. The very same character and integrity they are campaigning on. Maybe we shouldn't ask any questions at all, just accept applications, put them in a hat, and pick one. After all, if we get a good politician that way, then it would have been empirically proven as absolute fact as the best election method.

Skinbasket, it's good to read your true feelings about sex and the politician. Reading about Spitzer's "multitude of crimes" in the previous argument was quite annoying. I'm not surprised that you are a puritan. You talk like a pervert, it's the people who talk like puritans who are the perverts.

This is a separate issue from the crimes Spitzer committed. You're the only one that keeps trying to make them one and the same so they're easier for you to dismiss. What they do share is that his crimes and his indiscretions both show he is not capable of making sound decisions, maintaining integrity, or honoring promises.

I know you like to lump people into groups and stereotype them, but even perverts believe in integrity, honesty, and self control. Otherwise the perversions have no meaning. Without truth there can be no lies.

[SkinBasket]

I simply feel they are failing in their job duties and making excuses for them isn't in my interest.

sex lives are part of job duties?

*Yawn*


Stop acting stupid, you.... hold on, where's that thread....

Shit Whistle.

[Harlan Huckleby]

1) The most successful presidents in the last century had affairs, the least successful were faithful to their wives. Really, end of argument. We can't afford to toss-out people for reasons that emperically have proven to be irrelevant at best.

Very scientific. I'm sure the two are directly related. Just like pirates and global warming.

"irrelevant" does not mean "directly related." I use www.dictionary.com when I get confused, you might try it.

Who called for a focus on personal lives? Simply maintaining the standards the average man lives by while being paid by

maintaining standards in their personal lives.

even perverts believe in integrity, honesty, and self control. Otherwise the perversions have no meaning.

OK, I withdraw my previous speculation as to your sexual proclivities.

Pervert!

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'm mad as hell and not gonna take it anymore.

What a spectacle we saw yesterday! A new governor feels compelled to hold a press conference to announce that he diddled someone outside of his marriage in 1999 and 2004. And is that his wife standing there with the long face?

And some of you think this is cool, or cause for smug tut-tutting. This is back to the 1950's is what it is. Do you think a new era of sexual witchhunts and scandals is helpful to our politics and government?

And why did he step forward? Quite possibly he was being blackmailed and wanted to clear the air. Or some political enemy was stirring up trouble, so he decided to beat them to the punch.

You damn fools and your sexual moralizing. Why do we have to keep learning the same lessons?

[Scott Campbell]

Just because Harlan has no standards, it doesn't mean that everyone else has to slink to that level.

Call me crazy, but I don't trust a governor that would cheat, lie and steal from his spouse - with a hooker. There are character issues that make people unfit for public office. Harlan is single, and perhaps doesn't understand commitment , and family responsibilities.

Ironically, Harlan got all preachy with his holy crusade for forum decency. While good enough for strangers on a message board, it appears to be too high a standard for ones spouse.

[Scott Campbell]

And why did he step forward? Quite possibly he was being blackmailed and wanted to clear the air.

Do you really think its a great idea for a governor to leave himself open to blackmail in the first place? How is that in the best interests of his constituency? Might he be tempted to pay them off with state money, or award the thug a contract?

[The Leaper]

What a spectacle we saw yesterday! A new governor feels compelled to hold a press conference to announce that he diddled someone outside of his marriage in 1999 and 2004. And is that his wife standing there with the long face?

The only reason he did this was due to the circumstances of why he took the office in the first place.

If you can't rationalize why Spitzer's actions were dangerous and careless in regard to his constituents, it's your own problem. I don't view the new guy's transgressions in the same light...and the vast majority of others share my viewpoint.

[Scott Campbell]

Why do we have to keep learning the same lessons?

Who's we?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Just because Harlan has no standards, it doesn't mean that everyone else has to slink to that level.

Call me crazy, but I don't trust a governor that would cheat, lie and steal from his spouse - with a hooker.

You're absolutely correct, it would be a terrible thing if our leaders sunk to my standards - all manner of wild sex, treating taxpayers like personal ATM machines, reigniting racial hatred.

But that's irrelevant, we're really focused on whether it's a good thing to put personal sexual behavior into the public debate. I understand your point of view, it make sense in principle. Trouble is that experience shows maritil fidelity doesn't correlate with effective leadership, and a permanent witchhunt causes terrible harm, as I explained before.

[Harlan Huckleby]

If you can't rationalize why Spitzer's actions were dangerous and careless in regard to his constituents, it's your own problem. I don't view the new guy's transgressions in the same light...and the vast majority of others share my viewpoint.

Are you saying that going to a prositute is an impeachable offense, having an affair can be excused with wink and nudge?

Scott Campbell disagrees with you on this point, so I guess he is not in that vast majority you mentioned.

I know you said before that going to a prositute was not cause for automatic ejection, that if they appear contrite they can stay. I find this ridiculous. Do you really think we can look into the heart of the man blubbering at the news conference? Do you excuse David Vitter's prostituion habit because you believed his contrition speech? Silly. You aren't being honest with yourself, you would never abide a politician who used prostitutes.