A More Perfect Union

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Re: A More Perfect Union

You aren't even close to being right.

You are right.

We should go back to lynching people, because the progress that has been made is worthless.

That isn't what i said, and for you to go there is just ridiculous.

I lived for 10 years in the south, and if you dont' think whites have a significant advantage you are just crazy.

I could tell you about a project i worked with two black guys..who spoke and dressed as professionally as could be...and yet, were not welcome in a number of southern states. And, were told by coworkers in Miss, Ala, Mizzou not to venture into certain sections of the county.

i have personally seen instituitional racism.

[3irty1]

Re: A More Perfect Union

You aren't even close to being right.

You are right.

We should go back to lynching people, because the progress that has been made is worthless.

That isn't what i said, and for you to go there is just ridiculous.

I lived for 10 years in the south, and if you dont' think whites have a significant advantage you are just crazy.

I could tell you about a project i worked with two black guys..who spoke and dressed as professionally as could be...and yet, were not welcome in a number of southern states. And, were told by coworkers in Miss, Ala, Mizzou not to venture into certain sections of the county.

i have personally seen instituitional racism.

I believe this 100%. A couple months ago I went to a BBQ place in South Carolina which was basically founded by the most racist man alive. The walls were coated with confederate crap and they even had a racism gift shop where you could buy everything from exposes on how Abe Lincoln was a huge asshole to varying degrees of hateful and threatening bumper stickers. It was also the only place in South Carolina I saw that had only white people working service jobs. I guess I had just assumed that it was just illegal to run a buisness like that. There are still some crazy people running around. Enough to keep a racist restaurant in buisness anyways. This wasn't in the middle of nowhere either, it was right in Columbia.

[packinpatland]

Re: A More Perfect Union

You aren't even close to being right.

You are right.

We should go back to lynching people, because the progress that has been made is worthless.

That isn't what i said, and for you to go there is just ridiculous.

I lived for 10 years in the south, and if you dont' think whites have a significant advantage you are just crazy.

I could tell you about a project i worked with two black guys..who spoke and dressed as professionally as could be...and yet, were not welcome in a number of southern states. And, were told by coworkers in Miss, Ala, Mizzou not to venture into certain sections of the county.

i have personally seen instituitional racism.

I believe this 100%. A couple months ago I went to a BBQ place in South Carolina which was basically founded by the most racist man alive. The walls were coated with confederate crap and they even had a racism gift shop where you could buy everything from exposes on how Abe Lincoln was a huge asshole to varying degrees of hateful and threatening bumper stickers. It was also the only place in South Carolina I saw that had only white people working service jobs. I guess I had just assumed that it was just illegal to run a buisness like that. There are still some crazy people running around. Enough to keep a racist restaurant in buisness anyways. This wasn't in the middle of nowhere either, it was right in Columbia.

Gotta ask........what were you doing there? I don't care how good the BBQ is, they wouldn't get a dime from me.

[Zool]

Its not only white on everyone for racism. Try being as white as me in East LA or Inglewood or Watts. Racism might be less than it was even 50 years ago, but to say its gone is narrow viewed or just plain ignorant of the situation.

[hoosier]

Re: A More Perfect Union

I could find significant flaws in many of these salary discrepancy studies. What do they consider "similar qualifications"...that is a rather difficult thing to quantify. We all have different educations and career backgrounds.

Not that difficult: you compare people with the same professional degrees from reputable institutions. Or people with degrees from Big Ten schools. Or whatever.

Care to point out a specific one we can discuss?

Why don't you start by pointing out a study that you find flawed?

Again, I'm not suggesting there isn't an advantage for whites...I'm suggesting there is not a SIGNIFICANT advantage like there was 25+ years ago.

I would expect that the income disparities between blacks and whites in similar positions have diminished somewhat in the last 30 years, but that the disparities in wealth between black and white families has remained the same or even grown. But whatever the case, if the disparity in salary is noticeable, I'm not sure how you define whether or not it's "significant." You know as well as anyone that salary isn't just income, it also defines you socially.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Its not only white on everyone for racism. Try being as white as me in East LA or Inglewood or Watts. Racism might be less than it was even 50 years ago, but to say its gone is narrow viewed or just plain ignorant of the situation.

You are right about racism..however, under the definition used in colleges..usually in order to be racist you have to have the power.

Blacks and other minorities usually don't hold the power.

Anyone who actually thinks the world is significantly better has low standards. Sure, we aren't lynching people anymore, but racism exists all day long.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Re: A More Perfect Union

You aren't even close to being right.

You are right.

We should go back to lynching people, because the progress that has been made is worthless.

That isn't what i said, and for you to go there is just ridiculous.

I lived for 10 years in the south, and if you dont' think whites have a significant advantage you are just crazy.

I could tell you about a project i worked with two black guys..who spoke and dressed as professionally as could be...and yet, were not welcome in a number of southern states. And, were told by coworkers in Miss, Ala, Mizzou not to venture into certain sections of the county.

i have personally seen instituitional racism.

I believe this 100%. A couple months ago I went to a BBQ place in South Carolina which was basically founded by the most racist man alive. The walls were coated with confederate crap and they even had a racism gift shop where you could buy everything from exposes on how Abe Lincoln was a huge asshole to varying degrees of hateful and threatening bumper stickers. It was also the only place in South Carolina I saw that had only white people working service jobs. I guess I had just assumed that it was just illegal to run a buisness like that. There are still some crazy people running around. Enough to keep a racist restaurant in buisness anyways. This wasn't in the middle of nowhere either, it was right in Columbia.

Anyone seen this shining example of UNITY.

The "Redneck Shop" has operated out of the building since 1996 under a lease that runs until the shop's owner dies.

Along with selling Ku Klux Klan robes and clothing with printed racial slurs, the shop also serves as a private meeting place for the Cleveland Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.

Its full name is the "World Famous Redneck Shop and Klan Museum," and the Confederate flag stands outside on the sidewalk at the entrance to the store, according to a recent Intelligence Report by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

John Howard, 62, who runs the store, has a legal right to operate his business in that building until he dies.

Howard once served as the KKK's grand dragon for South Carolina and North Carolina. Kennedy actively lobbied to remove the Confederate flag from the Statehouse dome.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=391

http://thisisbabylon.net/2008/03/11/introducing-the-kkk-store/

If people werent' racist..the shop wouldn't do business..therefore it would go out of business. Basic capitalism. Since it is still doing business..we can only logically determine that there are plenty of racists.

[hoosier]

Re: A More Perfect Union

Anyone seen this shining example of UNITY.

The "Redneck Shop" has operated out of the building since 1996 under a lease that runs until the shop's owner dies.

Along with selling Ku Klux Klan robes and clothing with printed racial slurs, the shop also serves as a private meeting place for the Cleveland Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.

Its full name is the "World Famous Redneck Shop and Klan Museum," and the Confederate flag stands outside on the sidewalk at the entrance to the store, according to a recent Intelligence Report by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

John Howard, 62, who runs the store, has a legal right to operate his business in that building until he dies.

Howard once served as the KKK's grand dragon for South Carolina and North Carolina. Kennedy actively lobbied to remove the Confederate flag from the Statehouse dome.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=391

http://thisisbabylon.net/2008/03/11/introducing-the-kkk-store/

If people werent' racist..the shop wouldn't do business..therefore it would go out of business. Basic capitalism. Since it is still doing business..we can only logically determine that there are plenty of racists.

I think any useful definition of racism has to include the desire for separatism, or the belief in racial purity. In that sense, I think any ethnic group, dominant or marginal, can adopt racist attitudes or tendencies.

But this example is easy to pick on--the people who go to this store and buy its stuff are dinosaurs, residues of another era. But if you ask black people, I think many will tell you that they experience a different kind of "racism" in the North, or a kind of prejudice that is in fact even more insidious than the in your face supremacism described here. In the North nobody in their right mind would come right out and proclaim themselves a racist or white supremacist like your South Carolina BBQ guy. But in the North whites still have a tendency to see blacks as "black people" while viewing other whites as "people." When we see blacks all we see is blackness; when we look at whites we see right through their whiteness.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Re: A More Perfect Union

Anyone seen this shining example of UNITY.

The "Redneck Shop" has operated out of the building since 1996 under a lease that runs until the shop's owner dies.

Along with selling Ku Klux Klan robes and clothing with printed racial slurs, the shop also serves as a private meeting place for the Cleveland Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.

Its full name is the "World Famous Redneck Shop and Klan Museum," and the Confederate flag stands outside on the sidewalk at the entrance to the store, according to a recent Intelligence Report by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

John Howard, 62, who runs the store, has a legal right to operate his business in that building until he dies.

Howard once served as the KKK's grand dragon for South Carolina and North Carolina. Kennedy actively lobbied to remove the Confederate flag from the Statehouse dome.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=391

http://thisisbabylon.net/2008/03/11/introducing-the-kkk-store/

If people werent' racist..the shop wouldn't do business..therefore it would go out of business. Basic capitalism. Since it is still doing business..we can only logically determine that there are plenty of racists.

I think any useful definition of racism has to include the desire for separatism, or the belief in racial purity. In that sense, I think any ethnic group, dominant or marginal, can adopt racist attitudes or tendencies.

But this example is easy to pick on--the people who go to this store and buy its stuff are dinosaurs, residues of another era. But if you ask black people, I think many will tell you that they experience a different kind of "racism" in the North, or a kind of prejudice that is in fact even more insidious than the in your face supremacism described here. In the North nobody in their right mind would come right out and proclaim themselves a racist or white supremacist like your South Carolina BBQ guy. But in the North whites still have a tendency to see blacks as "black people" while viewing other whites as "people." When we see blacks all we see is blackness; when we look at whites we see right through their whiteness.

I agree. No doubt about it.

Or as my black friends say..at least in the south we know what they think, in the north they are just quiet about it.

[Deputy Nutz]

I laugh at white people in the midwest, they don't think racism is a commonly practiced anymore, but god forbid black people start popping up in your quaint little suburbs. "There go the property values" is all you will hear.

Partial, "I am prejudice when I go into the ghetto."
Well Partial who lives in the ghetto? certainly not oxford shirt wearing white folk with pressed Dockers. Believe it or not commoners, poor black people actually live in the ghettos. Shocking. but understand poor white people really don't live in the inner city ghettos, they live in trailer parks in Jefferson County.

Racism is like the Devil, his greatest trick was fooling us that he doesn't actually exists.

[Partial]

Nutz, it has nothing to do with where people live or the color of their skin.

I am prejudice against lazy bums and gangstas. If they're black, white, purple, green, blue, etc it doesn't matter to me.

My uncomfortableness for Eminem is equal to that of Dr Dre. It has to do with their ghetto attitudes, not their skin tone.

[MJZiggy]

That may be true, P, but be honest with yourself, when you think of the ghetto, what pops into your head? I'd be willing to bet you think of a strong black dude with pants 3 sizes too big and a do-rag long before you consider a white guy with missing teeth and his 400-lb wife. The only thing is that it's the same dude, different neighborhood.

I'm no big fan of the ghetto culture (which if you think about it, is different from the ghetto itself). I think it glorifies violence and perpetuates stereotypes, but to say that everyone in the ghetto has a ghetto attitude is being overly simplistic. Again, things are not black and white nor as simple as you wish them to be.

[Joemailman]

Its not only white on everyone for racism. Try being as white as me in East LA or Inglewood or Watts. Racism might be less than it was even 50 years ago, but to say its gone is narrow viewed or just plain ignorant of the situation.

You are right about racism..however, under the definition used in colleges..usually in order to be racist you have to have the power.

Blacks and other minorities usually don't hold the power.

Anyone who actually thinks the world is significantly better has low standards. Sure, we aren't lynching people anymore, but racism exists all day long.

I've always strongly disagreed with this definition of racism. Hitler was sitting in a jail cell and penniless when he wrote Mein Kampf. The Nazi party was virtually unknown at the time. Hitler had no power at the time, but was certainly a racist when he wrote Mein Kampf. Likewise, many racist people in this country are from the lower rungs of the social/economic ladder. It is true that some become racists because there are powerful people who are able to use racism to spread an agenda, as the Nazis did after they attained power, and as the KKK did here. It would be wrong however, to suggest that in order to be a racist you must have power.

[Zool]

That may be true, P, but be honest with yourself, when you think of the ghetto, what pops into your head? I'd be willing to bet you think of a strong black dude with pants 3 sizes too big and a do-rag long before you consider a white guy with missing teeth and his 400-lb wife. The only thing is that it's the same dude, different neighborhood.

I'm no big fan of the ghetto culture (which if you think about it, is different from the ghetto itself). I think it glorifies violence and perpetuates stereotypes, but to say that everyone in the ghetto has a ghetto attitude is being overly simplistic. Again, things are not black and white nor as simple as you wish them to be.

I think these went out with Naughty By Nature and Bone Thugs N Harmony

[MadtownPacker]

Re: A More Perfect Union

Or as my black friends say..at least in the south we know what they think, in the north they are just quiet about it.

Black friends? So you dont just call them your FRIENDS?

Maybe you are one of those people that has to tell people he has black friends to feel better about himself?

BTW - It is because of PackerRats that I can tell Mexicans I have white friends.