Out of Iraq

[texaspackerbacker]

Glad to see you are participating in some serious discussion, Tyrone. I can respect that.

You make some valid points about what is gonna happen is gonna happen there, but success is a lot more likely now than a year or so ago, and just a little more patience will raise the chances for a good conclusion even more. And that isn't just good for Iraqis, it is good for America too.

What you been smokin?

So much for the semblance of rational discussion. I see I falsely attributed the brief lapse into discussion of issues to Tyrone rather than Freakout. However, now, it appears, he's back to being his old self.

[Deputy Nutz]

I say again, GPG, you are be applauded and respected for stating your positions, even if I don't agree with much of it.

1. How can you say, "The intel is flawed because he didn't have WMD's and thats what Bush used to sell the invasion to Americans"? There's no more proof that he DIDN'T have WMDs than that he did.

2. I'd say our military is doing a damn good job of rebuilding Iraq. You disagree with that? History will tell one way or the other.

3. What exactly do you see right in front of your eyes? Sure, gas prices are way up. That's undeniable, but do you really see people suffering? Or do you see the huge majority of people living better than ever before? And sure, there are whatever number of illegals. but do you really see anybody suffering because of it? I sure don't, and I'm down here in Texas, where the problem is undoubtedly worse than up there. I WISH people would judge things by what they actually see and experience instead of what they read/see in the left-biased media.

4 Get their help, maybe, but sure as hell don't let them have command and control or policy making power. For that matter, none of those other countries are anywhere near as competent as our own troops. The recent problems in Afghanistan with NATO flunkies is evidence of that.

5. It IS, however, distinctly to our advantage to have thriving free representative democracies like we see in most of Latin America. Leftists whine and rant about how they want peace and care about people, etc., yet they, incredibly, OPPOSE spreading American style freedom and representative government. I'm not in favor of doing it out of do-gooderism; I'm in favor because it's good for America.

6. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but what does that have to do with what I said? Isolationism went out with the 1930s. The best way to keep war from coming here is to go there and deal with things wherever "there" might be. That's my opinion.

7. Your original point was that the war was somehow preventing these things from being dealt with--just not true. The healthcare scenario you describe sounds very much like the Republican suggestions. The other problems are being obstructed from solution by the anti-war liberals.

1. We can claim no WMD because we sure didn't find any. You can claim that he sent them packing to Syria, or he buried them in a really big hole. Then Sadam out smarted our wonderful President. I am of the belief that there were nasty weapons that a person like Saddam should not have had. He was a bad person.

2. I wouldn't say we have or not have the Leadership to rebuild Iraq. The problem with Iraq is that it has a population full of people that have lived in fear for most of their lives and they want to be left alone. They may have wanted change, but these people didn't fight for change, they weren't willing to die for it. It takes a little more to help people that couldn't help themselves. It will take longer because not all people in Iraq want democracy, understand democracy. It will take longer because certain people in Iraq still want power, and are willing to fight for power. It will take longer because not all people trust the United States, it will take longer because people just want to go back to their daily lives, back to normalcy even if that normalcy was under a person like Saddam. They are confused after not being allowed to help or think for themselves. They come from a culture ruled by totalitarianism. It will take time to rebuild Iraq into a democracy, in an area where democracy is as uncommon as oak trees.

3. The war has not helped this economy. We are in debt to other countries because of this war. People are living off money they don't have, personal debt is threw the roof, sure it is personal responsibility big screen televisions are important, new cars and trucks are important, unneeded items for sure, but the price of food has gone up, the price of gas has gone up, the cost to heat and cool your house has gone up. The cost of living has gone up, but the dollar has shrunk. We just got a nice little chunk of money from the Feds to boost the economy. Now why would they have done that if everything was peachy? It wasn't a gift, it was a loan from next year's federal tax return.

4. I felt that NATO and other Countries had no problem turning their backs to us when it was time to go to war. Even if it was a mistake it would have been nice that the countries that were supposed to be on our team have back our mistake, instead they turned their backs and let us do it on our own even though if the tables were turned we would have complied to NATO. It was my opinion that this war was on the Bush Administration's agenda from day one. They were going to find a way to attack and invade and finish Saddam. 9-11 was that reason, the connection still hasn't been made other than the fact that Iraq was in the middle east and mostly a Muslim country.

5. It is very difficult to force change. We have tried to force change and it is a slow process. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. Provoking democracy in a Muslim country will be a very long and slow process that isn't near completed.

6. Isolationism doesn't work, closing ourselves off to the world doesn't work. We become one of the strongest countries in the world by lending our hands and ears to others, that shouldn't stop, but at some point and I think this is a cycle our government needs to wrap their arms around America, and open up their ears to American people.

7. The War is just a section of the pie graph, it's cost is not limiting now, but eventual monies will have to be paid back.

[texaspackerbacker]

Generally good comments, Nutz.

1. He sure looked smart with that noose around his neck.

2. Good points. It is succeeding, though.

3. Debt, both on a national level and on a personal level, is not necessarily a bad thing--like the old movie, Other People's Money. The dollar dropping in value is a good thing, not bad. We have no significant inflation; We have very low unemployment; Interest is super low; Even though some elements of the cost of living are up, many economic factors really are "peachy". I've heard that rumor about the "rebate" too, but I think it is false.

4. Very true about old Europe not being very supportive and not helpful at all. The time is coming for dealing with Iran. Part of me says do what needs to be done; Part of me says let the damn Europeans handle Iran--which will have a missile to deliver its nukes to Europe, but not America.

5. I say again, we are almost there, and it is distinctly in our interest to get there.

6. I wholeheartedly agree.

7. Just like I said.

[Freak Out]

Glad to see you are participating in some serious discussion, Tyrone. I can respect that.

You make some valid points about what is gonna happen is gonna happen there, but success is a lot more likely now than a year or so ago, and just a little more patience will raise the chances for a good conclusion even more. And that isn't just good for Iraqis, it is good for America too.

What you been smokin?

So much for the semblance of rational discussion. I see I falsely attributed the brief lapse into discussion of issues to Tyrone rather than Freakout. However, now, it appears, he's back to being his old self.

First you confuse a hip, crack smoking young black man with a white middle aged freak....then you claim there has been almost no inflation.

You've been smoking some of that Texas devil weed.