Democratic Party Implodes

[Harlan Huckleby]

Re: Democratic Party Implodes

Then as I said before, TAKE IT UP WITH THE STATE DEMOCRATIC PARTIES. THey moved thieir primaries, they pay the penalty. Also, if it was such an unjust rule, WHY DID HILLARY AGREE TO IT?

Why do you keep mentioning Hillary? I am questioning YOUR irrational postition.

The RULE was that MI & FL should have no delegates. Do YOU support that rule?

OF COURSE the Democratic party was never going to actually enforce such an impossible rule. That would be suicide.

Yesterday, they predicatably ignored the rule and created delegates for MI based on an interpretation of the vote that HIGHLY favored Obama. All uncommitted votes went to him, and more. And most importantly, the party can now (fraudulently) claim to have honored the voters of MI.

Are you in favor of this breaking of the rules? Do you think this is better than having a revote where voters determine the split of delegates?

Look, it's obvious you aren't going to address any of my questions because there is nothing for you to say. Your thoughts were never any deeper than supporting an outcome that hurt Clinton.

[Tarlam!]

So, who will ultimately get the nomination? I have been trying to understand, but the Dems aren't amking it easy....

[bobblehead]

Am I retarded or does this just make no sense?

Is that a trick question?

Its directly tied to the OR....your opinion of me on all other matters wasn't solicited

That doesn't mean it can't be offered though.

[retailguy]

So, who will ultimately get the nomination? I have been trying to understand, but the Dems aren't amking it easy....

60-40 says Obama gets it, UNLESS there is a huge blow up before the convention. Maybe 70-30....

I despise the Clinton's - ALWAYS have, always will, BUT, I'll NEVER count them out again. She's in it until she quits or the delegates vote, and I wouldn't be surprised to find out shes trying to stay in it after that delegate vote too.

[texaspackerbacker]

bhead, the irony regarding your Senator Dirty Harry Reid is that undoubtedly he was put over the top by the Mormon vote--by a bunch of goodhearted people who don't agree with a tenth of his rotten votes, views, and positions.

Right now, the good guys have a big lead in Florida and a small lead in Michigan--at least in part because of the disrespect shown by the Dems for those states. The task for Republican strategists between now and November will be to keep it that way.

Looking at the electoral map, McCain probably cannot win without Florida, and Obama very likely can't win without Michigan--which would give McCain the cushion of being able to lose either Ohio or a couple of western states that he ought to win but could lose.

[cpk1994]

Re: Democratic Party Implodes

Then as I said before, TAKE IT UP WITH THE STATE DEMOCRATIC PARTIES. THey moved thieir primaries, they pay the penalty. Also, if it was such an unjust rule, WHY DID HILLARY AGREE TO IT?

Why do you keep mentioning Hillary? I am questioning YOUR irrational postition.

The RULE was that MI & FL should have no delegates. Do YOU support that rule?

OF COURSE the Democratic party was never going to actually enforce such an impossible rule. That would be suicide.

Yesterday, they predicatably ignored the rule and created delegates for MI based on an interpretation of the vote that HIGHLY favored Obama. All uncommitted votes went to him, and more. And most importantly, the party can now (fraudulently) claim to have honored the voters of MI.

Are you in favor of this breaking of the rules? Do you think this is better than having a revote where voters determine the split of delegates?

Look, it's obvious you aren't going to address any of my questions because there is nothing for you to say. Your thoughts were never any deeper than supporting an outcome that hurt Clinton.

It has nothing to do with supporting an outcome hurting Clinton. This is about upholding the rules that ALL candidates agreed to before the primaries started. Obama agreed to it. Hillary agreed to it. Hillary said nothing until it became apparenty she would need those two states to win the nomination. Only then did she start pissing and moaning. So, yes I support MI and FL having no delagates because that was a rule set down by the DNC and signed off on by all parties. FL & MI rendered themselves null and void by moving their primaries. THey broke the rule, they pay the penalty. Voters have a problem with it? Tough shit.
As for a revote , no, I don't support it becuase it upholds the breaking of the rules by the Florida and Michigan State Democratic Parties.

Their are two reasons why the deal was made:

1. To try to finally get Hillary to STFU.

2. To avoid a potential and explosive showdown between party leaders and Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. The L.A. Riots will look like a pie social next to this if these two get involved.

Obama didn't have to do a thing(and shouldn't have) becuase he had the rules on his side. The only reason he did is to try to unify the party becuase he knows the longer squabble goes, the less likely his chances of winning in the general election.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Re: Democratic Party Implodes

Hillary agreed to it. Hillary said nothing until it became apparenty she would need those two states to win the nomination. Only then did she start pissing and moaning.

The plan that Howard Dean championed was grossly unfair and stupid. It supported Iowa & New Hampshire's privileged position, and these states are so critical that no candidate had the practical option of objecting. Their silence means nothing. All the candidates simply kept their mouths shut, and everyone nervously hoped that MI & FL wouldn't matter.

Of course Clinton only complained when MI & FL became critical - but so what? Do you think any other candidate would have behaved differently? And the question of what the candidates want is irrelevant, our concern is to have the most fair and democratic process, regardless of the interest of different candidates.

I support MI and FL having no delagates because that was a rule set down by the DNC and signed off on by all parties.

You are naive and not dealing with reality. I doubt you could find a single person connected with the Democratic Party who would go along with such a foolish move.

Their are two reasons why the deal was made:

1. To try to finally get Hillary to STFU.

2. To avoid a potential and explosive showdown between party leaders and Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. The L.A. Riots will look like a pie social next to this if these two get involved.

Hillary Clinton, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton had nothing whatsoever to do with the deal struck this past weekend.

You are arguing from a postition of ignorance.

Obama didn't have to do a thing(and shouldn't have) becuase he had the rules on his side.

Neither Clinton or Obama camps had the rules on their side. Obama had the votes on his side. The "deal" cut had zero to do with the rules, it totally violated the rules.

The available options were to have a revote or a spectacle such as we witnessed last weekend. You detach yourself from reality and say you are above supporting either approach. Yet you didn't get upset by what happened last weekend. That's because you are not a thinking person, you are just reacting to your deep hatred of one of the candidates.

[cpk1994]

You are the one dealing from ignorance if you think that Jackson and Sharpton would stay quiet if the noimination was taken away from Obama by changing the rules. I guarnatee if the party had voted to fully reinstate the delagates Shapton and Jackson would scream bloody murder. Everyone, even an idiot like Howard Dean could see that coming down 5th avenue.

[cpk1994]

ALso, if the roles were reversed, I still would say the same thing. Rules are rules. FL and Michigan moved their primaries, they should pay the penalty. BOth candidates had a chance to speak up, but didn't and that is there problem. I hate both candidates, so your assumption is not only wrong, but asinine.

[Harlan Huckleby]

You are the one dealing from ignorance if you think that Jackson and Sharpton would stay quiet if the noimination was taken away from Obama by changing the rules. I guarnatee if the party had voted to fully reinstate the delagates Shapton and Jackson would scream bloody murder. Everyone, even an idiot like Howard Dean could see that coming down 5th avenue.

First of all, settling the MI-FL controversy with a revote was WITHIN THE RULES. The rule was that the original primary would not count. There was no rule against rescheduling a new primary. In fact, the DNC encouraged such a resolution, they knew that the delegates would ultimately have to be seated somehow.

But you seem uninterested in such facts and details.

I have no comment on your theory that the rules were changed last weekend to favor black people. This can neither be proved or disproved, if you see it that way, so be it.

[bobblehead]

Re: Democratic Party Implodes

Obama didn't have to do a thing(and shouldn't have) becuase he had the rules on his side. The only reason he did is to try to unify the party becuase he knows the longer squabble goes, the less likely his chances of winning in the general election.

I agree with you about rules are rules, object beforehand, or shush later, but one little point I'd like to make. If Obama is compromising to unify the party, he is a bigger fool than GW was when he passed medicare part D to pacify the left. We all saw how that worked out, dems wrapped their arms around GW, proclaimed him a compassionate conservative and we all got along.....NOT!!!

You can't compromise with someone who's sole goal is to beat you at any/all costs. Hillary wants that nomination, and her next step will be the rules comittee, and after that she will sue the DNC in court. If neither of those work, she will do everything she can to ruin obama's campaign (while pretending she is behind him) so she can win in 4 years.

As a rule, the idea of putting aside partisan politics is a joke, it ain't happenin'. Both sides desire power and will slam the other side relentlessly on any issue they can. Oh, their may be a compliment thrown around once in awhile when someone completely crosses party lines (lieberman..war) but trust me, when the rubber meets the road, its game on.

[Harlan Huckleby]

ALso, if the roles were reversed, I still would say the same thing. Rules are rules. FL and Michigan moved their primaries, they should pay the penalty. BOth candidates had a chance to speak up, but didn't and that is there problem. I hate both candidates, so your assumption is not only wrong, but asinine.

I never suggested that you supported either candidate.

But you can hardly say a word about the topic without expressing all events in terms of Clinton's evil intentions and actions. When in fact her behavior or interests have nothing to do with the need for a decent process.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Re: Democratic Party Implodes

If Obama is compromising to unify the party

Obama hasn't done any compromising. All he did was block a revote that was legal under the rules. And the alternative was dirty dealing that favored him, as we saw last weekend.

[bobblehead]

I was replying to what cpk said, I'm actually not sure if he is compromising or not. I did point out on another thread that he managed to get delegates from a state he did not recieve ONE vote in. That would probably point towards he isn't compromising, but benefitting.

[hoosier]

Methinks Harlan has lost his sense of humor.