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  • Corner turned in Iraq?

    This is a surprising opinion piece because it was written by the editors of the Washington Post. The Post has been anti-Bush and anti-war.

    The Iraqi Upturn
    Don't look now, but the U.S.-backed government and army may be winning the war

    Sunday, June 1, 2008

    THERE'S BEEN a relative lull in news coverage and debate about Iraq in recent weeks -- which is odd, because May could turn out to have been one of the most important months of the war. While Washington's attention has been fixed elsewhere, military analysts have watched with astonishment as the Iraqi government and army have gained control for the first time of the port city of Basra and the sprawling Baghdad neighborhood of Sadr City, routing the Shiite militias that have ruled them for years and sending key militants scurrying to Iran. At the same time, Iraqi and U.S. forces have pushed forward with a long-promised offensive in Mosul, the last urban refuge of al-Qaeda. So many of its leaders have now been captured or killed that U.S. Ambassador Ryan C. Crocker, renowned for his cautious assessments, said that the terrorists have "never been closer to defeat than they are now."

    Iraq passed a turning point last fall when the U.S. counterinsurgency campaign launched in early 2007 produced a dramatic drop in violence and quelled the incipient sectarian war between Sunnis and Shiites. Now, another tipping point may be near, one that sees the Iraqi government and army restoring order in almost all of the country, dispersing both rival militias and the Iranian-trained "special groups" that have used them as cover to wage war against Americans. It is -- of course -- too early to celebrate; though now in disarray, the Mahdi Army of Moqtada al-Sadr could still regroup, and Iran will almost certainly seek to stir up new violence before the U.S. and Iraqi elections this fall. Still, the rapidly improving conditions should allow U.S. commanders to make some welcome adjustments -- and it ought to mandate an already-overdue rethinking by the "this-war-is-lost" caucus in Washington, including Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.).

    Gen. David H. Petraeus signaled one adjustment in recent testimony to Congress, saying that he would probably recommend troop reductions in the fall going beyond the ongoing pullback of the five "surge" brigades deployed last year. Gen. Petraeus pointed out that attacks in Iraq hit a four-year low in mid-May and that Iraqi forces were finally taking the lead in combat and on multiple fronts at once -- something that was inconceivable a year ago. As a result the Iraqi government of Nouri al-Maliki now has "unparalleled" public support, as Gen. Petraeus put it, and U.S. casualties are dropping sharply. Eighteen American soldiers died in May, the lowest total of the war and an 86 percent drop from the 126 who died in May 2007.

    If the positive trends continue, proponents of withdrawing most U.S. troops, such as Mr. Obama, might be able to responsibly carry out further pullouts next year. Still, the likely Democratic nominee needs a plan for Iraq based on sustaining an improving situation, rather than abandoning a failed enterprise. That will mean tying withdrawals to the evolution of the Iraqi army and government, rather than an arbitrary timetable; Iraq's 2009 elections will be crucial. It also should mean providing enough troops and air power to continue backing up Iraqi army operations such as those in Basra and Sadr City. When Mr. Obama floated his strategy for Iraq last year, the United States appeared doomed to defeat. Now he needs a plan for success.


  • #2
    read that in the paper today, but I also thought of the possibility that the enemy is lying low, saving up resources for a big push in sept/oct to try and get a candidate elected who is promising to withdraw troops now. Influencing elections isn't an america only trick.
    The only time success comes before work is in the dictionary -- Vince Lombardi

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    • #3
      The Post is anti-war and anti-Bush?
      C.H.U.D.

      Comment


      • #4
        n/m, you meant the POST as in the paper, not this post :P

        my bad
        The only time success comes before work is in the dictionary -- Vince Lombardi

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Freak Out
          The Post is anti-war and anti-Bush?
          I tend to think of the Post as the same as the NY Times, because they have a very similar mix of liberal and conservative columnists.

          But perhaps you are correct that the Post editorial board is more conservative than I thought.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Harlan Huckleby
            Originally posted by Freak Out
            The Post is anti-war and anti-Bush?
            I tend to think of the Post as the same as the NY Times, because they have a very similar mix of liberal and conservative columnists.

            But perhaps you are correct that the Post editorial board is more conservative than I thought.
            I never thought of the Post or it's editors as being "anti-war or Bush" but pretty even handed overall....

            When you drop as many bombs and use as many missiles as we have the last year you are bound to kill a bunch of militants and force a few to talk rather than fight...but the outcome we wanted is never going to happen. An open and democratic Iraq that is a friend to Israel and an enemy of Iran is a fantasy.
            C.H.U.D.

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            • #7
              we never wanted that, see my long post on the other thread about our huge base 12 minutes fly time from tehran. We accomplished our goal, now we are pretending we had other motives for being there.
              The only time success comes before work is in the dictionary -- Vince Lombardi

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              • #8
                If you guys are interested in the subject, you should read Michael Yon's book "Turning Point". If for no other reason than to read about Petraeus. Considering the list of people who have tried and failed at various counterinsurgency strategies and mideast peace efforts (even though his work is but a small part of this overall problem), the efforts of Petraeus are worth reading about. The guy's pretty amazing. Read the book to discover how he was shot through the chest by 'friendly fire' and how he 'punished' the offending soldier. With Petraeus moving up to handle the whole theater, it will be interesting to see how he'll handle problems like Waziristan - and how much latitude he'll be given...
                "Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by bobblehead
                  we never wanted that, see my long post on the other thread about our huge base 12 minutes fly time from tehran. We accomplished our goal, now we are pretending we had other motives for being there.
                  The bases are no secret but the general public are mostly ignorant of them and the embassy that is being built.....but we cant just sit there in a hostile country in our bases forever...the Iraqi public has to accept the presence of them and I don't think that will ever happen to the extent that some believe.
                  C.H.U.D.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mraynrand
                    If you guys are interested in the subject, you should read Michael Yon's book "Turning Point". If for no other reason than to read about Petraeus. Considering the list of people who have tried and failed at various counterinsurgency strategies and mideast peace efforts (even though his work is but a small part of this overall problem), the efforts of Petraeus are worth reading about. The guy's pretty amazing. Read the book to discover how he was shot through the chest by 'friendly fire' and how he 'punished' the offending soldier. With Petraeus moving up to handle the whole theater, it will be interesting to see how he'll handle problems like Waziristan - and how much latitude he'll be given...
                    Petraeus is a pretty amazing soldier.
                    C.H.U.D.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Freak Out
                      When you drop as many bombs and use as many missiles as we have the last year you are bound to kill a bunch of militants and force a few to talk rather than fight.
                      This is the opposite of what happenned. They broke our military into much smaller units and had them live and work, in conjunction with small Iraqi units, closely with the civilian population. This is the anti-insurgency stragegy that has succeeeded.

                      Originally posted by Freak Out
                      ..but the outcome we wanted is never going to happen. An open and democratic Iraq that is a friend to Israel and an enemy of Iran is a fantasy.
                      Regarding Isreal, you might look to the negotiations ongoing between Syria and Israel and hope that there will be a cold peace with the Arab world before too long. But I don't think a pro-Israeli gov in Iraq was ever a goal.

                      Iran is more of a problem. Zero arab governments have diplomatic relations with Iraq, even our good "friends" Saudi Arabia, Jordan or Syria. They see Iraq as an emerging agent of Iran, and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophescy.

                      Iran & Iraq are two peas in a pod. Iraq currently buys many of their consumer goods from IRan. We look at a map and see a border, but the people in Southern Iraq & Iran see people on the other side that they deal with regularly. The populations are moving back and forth to visit Shia religious sites.

                      I see a close relationship between Iraq & Iran as an unavoidable reality. And not necessarily a problem.

                      Ummm, I think we may have over-exaggerated the risk of U.S. troops endlessly fighting in Iraq. Democracy is emerging in Iraq, and the people will have a say. We don't keep troops in countries where we aren't wanted.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Harlan Huckleby
                        Iran & Iraq are two peas in a pod. Iraq currently buys many of their consumer goods from IRan. We look at a map and see a border, but the people in Southern Iraq & Iran see people on the other side that they deal with regularly. The populations are moving back and forth to visit Shia religious sites.

                        I see a close relationship between Iraq & Iran as an unavoidable reality. And not necessarily a problem.
                        Incidentally I think you are basically seeing what bush realized later and it played a big part in his decision to nation build. He realizes these populations are getting "to know each other" when what he thought before was saddam was working with iran to build a nuke (not thought, he was probably right...we'll never know). Now if he builds a democracy in iraq, it can't help but to bleed into iran because of the synergy that has been built between the populations, and thus hopefully will damage/destroy the hard line iran gov't.
                        The only time success comes before work is in the dictionary -- Vince Lombardi

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                        • #13
                          It was nice of the Washington Post to FINALLY notice.

                          Hell yeah, Freakout, the Washington Post is generally virulently left wing. This and an occasional other burst of good sense and normalcy by them is only out of desperation to avoid losing credibility even with the core of the Dem/libs. It's called getting ahead )or at least not too far behind) the curve.

                          Harlan, you haven't forgotten that wonderful war all through the 80s where Iraq and Iran did an absolutely splendid job of killing each other off? And it wasn't just a Sunni vs. Shi'ite thing. Are you also aware that Iranians are not even Arabs, and that such a distinction really means something to many on both sides?
                          What could be more GOOD and NORMAL and AMERICAN than Packer Football?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Harlan Huckleby
                            Originally posted by Freak Out
                            When you drop as many bombs and use as many missiles as we have the last year you are bound to kill a bunch of militants and force a few to talk rather than fight.
                            This is the opposite of what happenned. They broke our military into much smaller units and had them live and work, in conjunction with small Iraqi units, closely with the civilian population. This is the anti-insurgency stragegy that has succeeeded.
                            We have used air power more and more the last six months to attack militants in Sadr City and elsewhere in Iraq rather than send troops in...it's been very effective. I read somewhere that we had fired more than 400 Hellfire missiles in one month alone in Sadr city. As far as the troops being stationed in smaller bases throughout the city/region it has been effective....but what about after we leave? Oh...thats right we'll be there for a hundred years. A huge portion of the people we were fighting have laid down their arms for now....for many reasons..but they can easily pick them right back up. This thing is far form over.
                            C.H.U.D.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by texaspackerbacker
                              Hell yeah, Freakout, the Washington Post is generally virulently left wing. This and an occasional other burst of good sense and normalcy by them is only out of desperation to avoid losing credibility even with the core of the Dem/libs. It's called getting ahead )or at least not too far behind) the curve.


                              Texas...you are one funny guy....or you've been hit in the head a few to many times.
                              C.H.U.D.

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