Vince vs. Retailguy

[vince]

This isn't entirely true. I get a lot of grief for being a mod.

Every time someone disagrees with me, instead of stating WHY, they just bitch about what a crummy moderator that I am.

I hope you don't actually believe that shit you typed here RG. You've been called a poor excuse of a mod because of how you exaggerate and distort what people who disagree with you have said in order to personally denigrate them, not because they disagree with you. Here's another example of it. Give me a break.

[retailguy]

This isn't entirely true. I get a lot of grief for being a mod.

Every time someone disagrees with me, instead of stating WHY, they just bitch about what a crummy moderator that I am.

I hope you don't actually believe that shit you typed here RG. You've been called a poor excuse of a mod because of how you exaggerate and distort what people who disagree with you have said in order to personally denigrate them, not because they disagree with you. Here's another example of it. Give me a break.

Wow. This is a riot.

Vince, that's a nice accusation there. Let's bring everyone up to speed, shall we?

Last year, (yes you read that right). Last year, I think it was week 2, maybe week 3 or 4, vince posted a topic in the Packer forum that still makes me laugh everytime I think of it. He advocated quite strongly, that the time was NOW, to lock up Atari Bigby to a long term contract before the "price" got too high. Now, as you all recall, Atari was a second year player with a few games (quite good ones early in the season) of starting experience. I "chided" vince quite heartily on this, I must admit, even adovcating that since this were the case, why stop there? We should give him a 10 year contract and make him our franchise player. I thought it was clear I was jesting, but well, I guess it wasn't so clear to vince.

Vince, clearly, a YEAR later, you were posting "Man-Love" for a player and not good football analysis. Nothing wrong with that, but, after a year, if you're still incapable of laughing at yourself, then, well, doesn't that suggest "other" issues that have nothing to do with me?

I guess I thought that a guy (assuming that's the case) who would create a user name of "vince" on a packer forum, and use the avatar that you use, followed by a "legendary rat" designation would be able to "take it" once in a while. Since you are accusing me of "personally denigrating" you, then, I guess you must truly believe you are some genius football analyst. If not, I don't believe that a year later you'd still be harboring deep seated resentments, now would you?

For the record, I don't believe that Matt Millen would have locked up a guy with under 5 games of starting experience, who'd been in the league less than 2 years, and as a result has NO OPTIONS but to play for the contract offered. Ted certainly wouldn't. And, Ted knew, as most of the rest of us did, that with some film, offensive coordinators would know how to "play" Bigby, and true to form, they did. He's got a ways to go, by any analysis. Nothing wrong with "man-love", just ask Harlan, but hey, lets keep it at that, OK?

[vince]

This isn't entirely true. I get a lot of grief for being a mod.

Every time someone disagrees with me, instead of stating WHY, they just bitch about what a crummy moderator that I am.

I hope you don't actually believe that shit you typed here RG. You've been called a poor excuse of a mod because of how you exaggerate and distort what people who disagree with you have said in order to personally denigrate them, not because they disagree with you. Here's another example of it. Give me a break.

Wow. This is a riot.

Vince, that's a nice accusation there. Let's bring everyone up to speed, shall we?

Last year, (yes you read that right). Last year, I think it was week 2, maybe week 3 or 4, vince posted a topic in the Packer forum that still makes me laugh everytime I think of it. He advocated quite strongly, that the time was NOW, to lock up Atari Bigby to a long term contract before the "price" got too high. Now, as you all recall, Atari was a second year player with a few games (quite good ones early in the season) of starting experience. I "chided" vince quite heartily on this, I must admit, even adovcating that since this were the case, why stop there? We should give him a 10 year contract and make him our franchise player. I thought it was clear I was jesting, but well, I guess it wasn't so clear to vince.

Vince, clearly, a YEAR later, you were posting "Man-Love" for a player and not good football analysis. Nothing wrong with that, but, after a year, if you're still incapable of laughing at yourself, then, well, doesn't that suggest "other" issues that have nothing to do with me?

I guess I thought that a guy (assuming that's the case) who would create a user name of "vince" on a packer forum, and use the avatar that you use, followed by a "legendary rat" designation would be able to "take it" once in a while. Since you are accusing me of "personally denigrating" you, then, I guess you must truly believe you are some genius football analyst. If not, I don't believe that a year later you'd still be harboring deep seated resentments, now would you?

For the record, I don't believe that Matt Millen would have locked up a guy with under 5 games of starting experience, who'd been in the league less than 2 years, and as a result has NO OPTIONS but to play for the contract offered. Ted certainly wouldn't. And, Ted knew, as most of the rest of us did, that with some film, offensive coordinators would know how to "play" Bigby, and true to form, they did. He's got a ways to go, by any analysis. Nothing wrong with "man-love", just ask Harlan, but hey, lets keep it at that, OK?

RG, you are so predictable it's pathetic. Thanks for making my whole point for me!

In the face of a criticism of your opinions and methods, you yet again twist and/or ignore the actual subject matter and go on the attack, bringing more of the same - lies, distortions, exaggerations and personal mis-accusations.

Here's the ACTUAL subject matter you're mischaracterizing once again RG. http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/vi...er=asc&start=0

It was started on October 20, at the SEVENTH week of the season (the Packers bye week last year) - not 2, 3 or 4 as you mischaracterize my post . In it, I stated that I believed Bigby, Lee and Williams were the three guys the team should have as priorities to resign before next (this) season - not NOW, as you wrongly state I suggested. Nor did I state we should resign Bigby before the price got too high - as you wrongly state I said.

You then equated my suggestion with a suggestion that we should have resigned Marques Anderson to a 15-year contract. That's a stupid, unfunny joke, but coming from you, it's come to be expected.

I merely said that, of all the players who's contracts were coming due this offseason, in my opinion, Bigby was the most important for the team's overall success. I wouldn't say that today, after witnessing the second half of the season that Grant had, but I stand by the assertion that Bigby is an important player and resigning him was a good thing - even though it was a no-brainer.

I won't even respond to the rest of the totally off-the-wall and irrelevant conclusions you drew from your mischaracterisations, distortions, lies and exaggerations.

Look it up RG. It's all there. It'd be nice to see you try debating and engaging in forum exchanges by staying on topic, responding to what people actually said, and using facts for a change RG, but I won't hold my breath buddy. Why let reality get in the way of a good blast on someone, eh RG?

Now go ahead, change the subject back to me and come on the attack again... It's the only thing you've demonstrated you know how to do here, so do the predictable thing again. Trust me, RG. I can take your stupid bullshit with the best of them. Can you take the facts?

MOD my ass.

[retailguy]

Gosh, Vince. You really are still pissed. And you still can't see the analogy.

Yes, I was off by TWO WEEKS... My memory failed me. I correctly remembered it was early, and I correctly remembered you said he was "THE top priority". That's what I found so funny. Did it then, still do it today. But for the TWO WEEKS? Vince, I apologize. Sincerely. I'm sure it deeply mis-characterized your point. Big diff between weeks 2-4 or week 6. We had a much clearer view of his "contribution" in week 6.

My analogy to Marques Anderson is spot on. I'm very sorry you find it offensive. See, I remember his rookie season clearly, coming in relief. He did play lights out. Much like Atari Bigby did early last season. Perhaps 15 years was extreme, but the point wasn't, and isn't. He was a total FLASH in the pan, but we didn't see that until late in year TWO or even year THREE. At the end of year ONE, Anderson looked like a damn good player. Much the same as Bigby did in week 6 or 2, or 4 or whatever. And, just where is Bigby in that process? Yeah, Vince, at the SAME place.

Giving Bigby an extension at the end of last season would have been STUPID. It was stupid to say it week 6, or 7 or 2 or 12. Hell, pick one, I don't care. You incorrectly stated later in that thread you posted that his contract expired and he'd be GONE if we didn't lock him up. That wasn't true, was it Vince? He's got NO leverage except to pay exactly what the Packers offer. That was my point, and Harv's before that. We had time to evaluate him, and we didn't with others you posted in your earlier thread. That was the basis for the "man-love" comment, and I fully stand behind that. You were trying to make an "objective" point, and your objectivity got clouded. It was funny then, and I find it funny today that you still can't see it.

Later in the thread, without mentioning your previous fuck up, you state the correct point that he CAN'T leave....WITHOUT acknowledging your error.... or acknowledging that your error in his contract status MIGHT have affected your characterization of the "top priority", or even that I <gasp> might have been right regardless of whether or not you found my comment funny.

Vince, I could really care less what you think of me. I've been clear in the earlier thread and this one just what I think of you. Pompous ALWAYS comes to mind.

I see "locking" Bigby up as the HIGHEST priority as ridiculous. I LIKE Bigby, but I think there are better players. Way Better. It's still possible that we'll look back at Bigby in 2 years as the "next" Marques Anderson. It's also possible that we'll look at Bigby as the "next" Leroy Butler. But a TOP PRIORITY entering 2008. Hardly. That was my point. But you know that.

Need a refill on the popcorn Tarlam? I've got a bunch. :P

You really want some enjoyment - you should re-read the Packnut threads where vince went after him over and over and over. Gives pompous a new name....

[vince]

Gosh, Vince. You really are still pissed. And you still can't see the analogy.

Yes, I was off by TWO WEEKS... My memory failed me. I correctly remembered it was early, and I correctly remembered you said he was "THE top priority". That's what I found so funny. Did it then, still do it today. But for the TWO WEEKS? Vince, I apologize. Sincerely. I'm sure it deeply mis-characterized your point. Big diff between weeks 2-4 or week 6. We had a much clearer view of his "contribution" in week 6.

My analogy to Marques Anderson is spot on. I'm very sorry you find it offensive. See, I remember his rookie season clearly, coming in relief. He did play lights out. Much like Atari Bigby did early last season. Perhaps 15 years was extreme, but the point wasn't, and isn't. He was a total FLASH in the pan, but we didn't see that until late in year TWO or even year THREE. At the end of year ONE, Anderson looked like a damn good player. Much the same as Bigby did in week 6 or 2, or 4 or whatever. And, just where is Bigby in that process? Yeah, Vince, at the SAME place.

Giving Bigby an extension at the end of last season would have been STUPID. It was stupid to say it week 6, or 7 or 2 or 12. Hell, pick one, I don't care. You incorrectly stated later in that thread you posted that his contract expired and he'd be GONE if we didn't lock him up. That wasn't true, was it Vince? He's got NO leverage except to pay exactly what the Packers offer. That was my point, and Harv's before that. We had time to evaluate him, and we didn't with others you posted in your earlier thread. That was the basis for the "man-love" comment, and I fully stand behind that. You were trying to make an "objective" point, and your objectivity got clouded. It was funny then, and I find it funny today that you still can't see it.

Later in the thread, without mentioning your previous fuck up, you state the correct point that he CAN'T leave....WITHOUT acknowledging your error.... or acknowledging that your error in his contract status MIGHT have affected your characterization of the "top priority", or even that I <gasp> might have been right regardless of whether or not you found my comment funny.

Vince, I could really care less what you think of me. I've been clear in the earlier thread and this one just what I think of you. Pompous ALWAYS comes to mind.

I see "locking" Bigby up as the HIGHEST priority as ridiculous. I LIKE Bigby, but I think there are better players. Way Better. It's still possible that we'll look back at Bigby in 2 years as the "next" Marques Anderson. It's also possible that we'll look at Bigby as the "next" Leroy Butler. But a TOP PRIORITY entering 2008. Hardly. That was my point. But you know that.

Need a refill on the popcorn Tarlam? I've got a bunch. :P

You really want some enjoyment - you should re-read the Packnut threads where vince went after him over and over and over. Gives pompous a new name....

You are such a one-trick pony it's hilarious. Even after explicitly being called-out for lying, exaggerating and mischaracterizing others' posts, you continue to do it to defend your position. Either that or you have serious reading comprehension problems, which I doubt.

You state that I argued for "giving Bigby and extension" and call that suggestion "stupid." I never said that. Bigby's current (at that time) contract expired at the end of last year RG, and he's been resigned, as many have suggested he should be. Yes it was a no-brainer for the Packers to tender him the minimum allowable contract, which he signed. That's great! He's now re-signed. In my opinion, the skills and depth at safety that he brings are important to the team.

Then you use the term "locking" in quotes in order to suggest that I used that term. I didn't. And to suggest that I advocated for the team to sign Bigby to a big long-term contract this year. I didn't do that either.

You then state that I stated something wrong, or that I made an "error" without acknowledging it in suggesting that Bigby be re-signed. I didn't say anything that was wrong. Your interpretation of what I said is the only thing that is wrong.

Read the post RG, and quit making shit up about what I wrote, then drawing ridiculous conclusions from the shit you make up. When you do that to me, I am going to call you out for being the schmuck that you are when you do so. Schmuck.

[vince]

Here's an idea RG. Why don't you go back to the original thread that I'm accusing you of misquoting and mischaracterizing me and actually QUOTE what I DID say. Then we can determine whether you are doing what I'm accusing you of, and whether I have actually said what you are accusing me of saying.

Give it a shot for a change... Try something new...

When you do, you may find that our opinions don't really differ that much, but that wiould be inconsistent with your attacks and mis-accusations, wouldn't it...

[retailguy]

You state that I argued for "giving Bigby and extension" and call that suggestion "stupid." I never said that.

I took the below quote from the thread you posted earlier. It's post #20 on page 2 (last post)....

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=9026&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20

That said, I'd like to see him locked up for 3 or 4 years. I think he's the most assignment-sure, fundamentally sound, talented and forceful of all the safeties on the roster right now, and without him, there are alot more question marks back there than there are with him back there.

Isn't a 3 or 4 year contract an EXTENSION?????

Then you use the term "locking" in quotes in order to suggest that I used that term. I didn't.

from the same post repeated for CLARITY....

That said, I'd like to see him locked up for 3 or 4 years.

Do you have multiple personality disorder?

And to suggest that I advocated for the team to sign Bigby to a big long-term contract this year. I didn't do that either.

from the same earlier thread..... POST #1.

1. Atari Bigby - the single most important individual to re-sign, IMO. Has unique playmaking abilities and has quickly emerged as a leader on this D. Adds significantly to the defense's character and production.

Then, later, Post #11.

RG, Bigby must be re-upped after this year or he'll be let go. His contract expires. Your exaggeration of my opinion on Bigby by insinuating that I'd advocate resigning Marques Anderson for 15 years is not only ridiculously wrong, it's implication to my intelligence is extremely offensive.

Then, repeated for clarity - Post #20 same thread:

That said, I'd like to see him locked up for 3 or 4 years. I think he's the most assignment-sure, fundamentally sound, talented and forceful of all the safeties on the roster right now, and without him, there are alot more question marks back there than there are with him back there.

Wouldn't "3 or 4" years for a 2nd year player with NO LEVERAGE be a LONG TERM CONTRACT? Why do this vince? It's STUPID, just as I said. I personally believe you hadn't even considered Bigby's contract status when you wrote post #1, or YOU WOULDN'T HAVE DONE IT. How much wounded pride does it take not to see the obvious? Your love for Bigby's game clouded your objectivity... For heaven's sake it happens. Own up to it and move on....

You then state that I stated something wrong, or that I made an "error" without acknowledging it in suggesting that Bigby be re-signed. I didn't say anything that was wrong.

In Post #1, you said:

1. Atari Bigby - the single most important individual to re-sign, IMO.

Harvey & I responded that he was "exclusive rights" and had no leverage and no choice but to play for the exclusive rights tender.

Then you said:

RG, Bigby must be re-upped after this year or he'll be let go. His contract expires.

Not exactly. Exclusive rights tenders are ALMOST automatic. There was no reason to "fear" his status, no reason to make him "top" priority over your other guys, Lee & Williams, who WERE NOT in the same position.

Then later, in post 20:

While I think Bigby's the real deal and is having a Pro Bowl season thus far, and I think re-signing him should be a priority, he has basically no leverage. He's an exclusive rights free agent at the end of the year, so he either signs with the Packers or sits out. He can't shop his services until the end of his next contract.

No mention of the prior posts. NONE. The last quote here clearly indicates that now you get that Bigby has NO leverage, but you still see the signing as important. Guess WHAT? Me too.... It's what I had been saying for the previous 20 posts in the thread. No mention that you might have been "misguided" or that I had a point. Just "forget it" and move on...

Read the post RG, and quit making shit up about what I wrote, then drawing ridiculous conclusions from the shit you make up.

I'll work on it Vince, but you make it so hard with your consistent opinion.. You should probably just stick to calling me names.

[retailguy]

It was requested by MTP that we remove this discussion from the APB thread....

Vince if you don't like the title, we'll adopt YOURS since you have been so wronged by me.

[vince]

That title is no problem RG. I'll be back when I get time - probably tonight. Thanks for actually quoting me this time... I was referring only to the original post in the thread. I hadn't gone back and read the entire thread, which I'll do. I apologize if I misrepresented your last thread before this one about using the term "locked up." Anyway, I do want to sort this out with you, so I'll be back as promised. This'll be fun.

[Freak Out]

[retailguy]

:P That's not too likely, Freak, but maybe a friendly handshake instead of pistols at 20 yards?

[SkinBasket]

Every time someone disagrees with me, instead of stating WHY, they just bitch about what a crummy moderator that I am.

If it helps your self-pity any, I think you're a shitty moderator whether I agree with you or not.

[bobblehead]

oops...thought this was next in the perfect male battle

[Zool]

So I was listening to System of a Down today and the song Cigaro made me think of internet chat fights. A sample.

My cock is much bigger than yours,
My cock can walk right through the door
With a feeling so pure...
It's got you screaming for more.

Cool, in denial
We're the cruel regulators smoking
CIGARO CIGARO CIGARO
Cool, in denial
We're the cruel regulators smoking
CIGARO CIGARO CIGARO

[SkinBasket]

I think Dope's Die Motherfucker Die is acceptable too.

I don't need your forgiveness
I don't need your hate
I don't need your acceptance
So what should I do?

I don't need your resistance
I don't need your prayers
I don't need no religion
Run away, away from you!

I don't do what I've been told,
You're so lame why don't you just go-

DIE MOTHERFUCKER DIE MOTHERFUCKER DIE! (x7)

I don't need your present
I don't need your pray
I don't need your decision
So what should I do?

I don't need your approval
I don't need your quote
I don't need your lecture
Run away, away from you!

I'll be sorry when I'll go?
You're so full of shit man just go-

DIE MOTHERFUCKER DIE MOTHERFUCKER DIE! (x7)

I don't need your forgiveness
I don't need your hate
I don't need your acceptance
So what should I do?

I'll be sorry so you said,
Well I'm not sorry Bang you're dead!

DIE MOTHERFUCKER DIE MOTHERFUCKER DIE! (x7)