War on Drugs

[mraynrand]

There are other options to punish them besides locking them up.

Yep. You have to punish people properly. You want to lock up the hardened criminals - the big time traffickers and killers. But you have to do something else with the casual users. Try stuff that keeps people from irresponsible behavior while under the influence. With any drug, especially alcohol, that's the key. because so many people are being slaughtered on or roads by people hopped up on drugs and alcohol.

As usual you miss the point. Locking them up doesn't change their behavior..anymore than trying stuff to change behavior while using.
.

NO, as usual, you missed the point. I talked of locking up the hardened traffickers and killers. The dangerous, recidivistic bastards, not the casual users. Why lock them up? Because they are a fucking danger to society if they are not behind bars and they have proven tha nothing will change their behavior. Drunk or high drivers can be made less dangerous by some of the suggestions you offer as well as other means.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

There are other options to punish them besides locking them up.

Yep. You have to punish people properly. You want to lock up the hardened criminals - the big time traffickers and killers. But you have to do something else with the casual users. Try stuff that keeps people from irresponsible behavior while under the influence. With any drug, especially alcohol, that's the key. because so many people are being slaughtered on or roads by people hopped up on drugs and alcohol.

As usual you miss the point. Locking them up doesn't change their behavior..anymore than trying stuff to change behavior while using.
.

NO, as usual, you missed the point. I talked of locking up the hardened traffickers and killers. The dangerous, recidivistic bastards, not the casual users. Why lock them up? Because they are a fucking danger to society if they are not behind bars and they have proven tha nothing will change their behavior. Drunk or high drivers can be made less dangerous by some of the suggestions you offer as well as other means.

I thought you were being sarcastic...about changing irresponsible behavior.

I'm not accustomed to you seeing the light and agreeing with me.

[GrnBay007]

There are other options to punish them besides locking them up.

Yep. You have to punish people properly. You want to lock up the hardened criminals - the big time traffickers and killers. But you have to do something else with the casual users. Try stuff that keeps people from irresponsible behavior while under the influence. With any drug, especially alcohol, that's the key. because so many people are being slaughtered on or roads by people hopped up on drugs and alcohol.

SO....any ideas?

Here's what I've seen for the most part: (over and over again)

OWI I - 2 days jail, ordered to complete substance abuse eval and treatment, ordered to complete Drunk Driving class, probation.

OWI II - ordered to complete another substance abuse eval and more outpatient treatment, OWI victim impact class. If you have $ for an attorney you might get 7 days jail, have insurance you may go to inpatient treatment, probation. No insurance, you do outpatient again and w/ a public defender you could be looking at correctional facility placement for OWI treatment for about 3 months, includes community service and drunk driving class.

OWI III - Felony (if actually convicted for a #3) - correctional facility (work release) for OWI treatment for about 4-5 months, drunk driving class (again), OWI victim impact class (again), community service and the board of parole must approve your release.

OWI III + - min. 60 day prison (shock) then on to same treatment/placement etc. as above.

OWI III + earn a 5 year prison sentence if they screw up where they receive substance abuse treatment and are out generally in 18 months or less.

I only used the example of operating while intoxicated because the sentencing is a lot more clear cut. Bottom line....you can overload on treatment OR you can lock em up, but when it all comes down to it, those that have substance abuse issues are not going to stop until they are ready. After multiple attempts at treatment have failed I have no problem seeing these people locked up. If they are off the streets for 18 months or 5 years....whatever, it may be saving a life or two. I believe this "problem" has a lot to do with our prison overcrowding. People can say an addict needs treatment (and I agree), but when do you draw the line and just lock them up in order to save the life of an innocent family driving on the roadway?

[bobblehead]

Pretty smart for a young guy.

He's not a young guy. He outted himself very recently. He's an old guy.

I did?

If you are indeed 15 I think it was, being able to understand differences in narcotics/hardcore addictive drugs vs. passive drugs is pretty strong. kudos to you, I think when I was that age I understood beer vs. all other drugs. Certain posters on this forum lack the ability to logically follow a train of thought half that complicated.

[Tarlam!]

Certain posters on this forum lack the ability to logically follow a train of thought half that complicated.

Bobble, why do you need to insult me? I clearly resemble that remark!!

[bobblehead]

Certain posters on this forum lack the ability to logically follow a train of thought half that complicated.

Bobble, why do you need to insult me? I clearly resemble that remark!!

I didn't NEED to.....

[sheepshead]

Maybe this will sway you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4_MsrsKzMM

[GoPackGo]

thats funny. Joe Cocker is waaaaasted

[Harlan Huckleby]

now you got me surfing youtube for more Joe Cocker. That guy was great. I don't think he was much of a druggy, altho he did become an alchoholic later on.

[mraynrand]

SO....any ideas?

How about:

OWI I - Drivers license suspended for 1 year; three months hard labor on a chain gang
OWI II - Drivers license suspended for life; 2 years hard labor on a chain gang
OWI III - (and driving without license) Felony; 10-20 years chain gang/community service. Permanent probation house arrest.

about 17,000 auto deaths each year from alcohol. If you want to drink and get drunk, if you want to get stoned out of you freakin' mind - go ahead - it's a relatively free country. But know that there are severe consequences if you endanger the lives of others.

[bobblehead]

SO....any ideas?

How about:

OWI I - Drivers license suspended for 1 year; three months hard labor on a chain gang
OWI II - Drivers license suspended for life; 2 years hard labor on a chain gang
OWI III - (and driving without license) Felony; 10-20 years chain gang/community service. Permanent probation house arrest.

about 17,000 auto deaths each year from alcohol. If you want to drink and get drunk, if you want to get stoned out of you freakin' mind - go ahead - it's a relatively free country. But know that there are severe consequences if you endanger the lives of others.

Hey, thats more lives than we have lost in iraq.....but then again, bush is a bastard and drunk drivers are poor addicts who need help. (help into a jail cell)

[mraynrand]

SO....any ideas?

How about:

OWI I - Drivers license suspended for 1 year; three months hard labor on a chain gang
OWI II - Drivers license suspended for life; 2 years hard labor on a chain gang
OWI III - (and driving without license) Felony; 10-20 years chain gang/community service. Permanent probation house arrest.

about 17,000 auto deaths each year from alcohol. If you want to drink and get drunk, if you want to get stoned out of you freakin' mind - go ahead - it's a relatively free country. But know that there are severe consequences if you endanger the lives of others.

Hey, thats more lives than we have lost in iraq.....but then again, bush is a bastard and drunk drivers are poor addicts who need help. (help into a jail cell)

About 4,000 people dies each year in motorcycle accidents, with the rate of death being 4-5X higher in states without helmet laws. Again, I say, value personal freedom - if you don't want to wear a helmet, fine. But you're free to die.

Relative to war deaths, an interesting number to consider: More veterans of the war in Afghanistan have died in motorcycle accidents after returning home than soldiers dying in the conflict itself (around 400 or so)- that number is from about a year and half ago. It's apples and oranges to a large extent, but it illustrates the dangers of motorcycle riding.

[GrnBay007]

How about:

OWI I - Drivers license suspended for 1 year; three months hard labor on a chain gang
OWI II - Drivers license suspended for life; 2 years hard labor on a chain gang
OWI III - (and driving without license) Felony; 10-20 years chain gang/community service. Permanent probation house arrest.

about 17,000 auto deaths each year from alcohol. If you want to drink and get drunk, if you want to get stoned out of you freakin' mind - go ahead - it's a relatively free country. But know that there are severe consequences if you endanger the lives of others.

I forgot to mention DL suspensions. 1st is one year but I'm not sure about 2nd and 3rds. I think the chain gang concept is great, but from what I heard the cost is high with supervision even with minimum risk offenders. Something needs to be done though. Way too many innocent people being killed by drunk/drugged drivers.

[Oscar]

SO....any ideas?

How about:

OWI I - Drivers license suspended for 1 year; three months hard labor on a chain gang
OWI II - Drivers license suspended for life; 2 years hard labor on a chain gang
OWI III - (and driving without license) Felony; 10-20 years chain gang/community service. Permanent probation house arrest.

about 17,000 auto deaths each year from alcohol. If you want to drink and get drunk, if you want to get stoned out of you freakin' mind - go ahead - it's a relatively free country. But know that there are severe consequences if you endanger the lives of others.

Hey, thats more lives than we have lost in iraq.....but then again, bush is a bastard and drunk drivers are poor addicts who need help. (help into a jail cell)

Though I'm one of those "Poor Addicts" I was lucky every time I got behind the wheel.. May have been a coupe years back....but...Didn't I read that Dubya used to drink a lil??? Maybe even do a lil snort?? Not that it matters...Gossip I'd say....And if it isn't gossip, good thing he hasn't got behind the wheel and killed any innocent folks..I'll add that my best friend was killed in 1994 in an alcohol related accident. Was the passenger riding with another friend of mine who was wasted.... He lived however..Gets fucked up and call's telling me how he needs my help to quit.. I see no sense in bringing Iraq into a thread about drugs and booze...

[sheepshead]

now you got me surfing youtube for more Joe Cocker. That guy was great. I don't think he was much of a druggy, altho he did become an alchoholic later on.

Oh come on, he is sooo wasted on here. He plays air guitar as well as I do!