Moral Hazards and Happy Meals for the Circle Jerk

[bobblehead]

Is it time to make sure that you have no more than $100K at any single financial institution? Or is that overly paranoid?

I'd say that's a problem I don't need to worry about, and won't for quite some time...

Even if not directly, it will hurt indirectly. The collapse of banking in this country would cripple us.

btw, indymac bank out of california was taken over by the feds today when it collapsed, I haven't read the whole story yet.

[bobblehead]

I can agree with you on housing and education, but I've recently had to deal with supplying my own health coverage and that's not something that someone without a lot of resources can do. If I hadn't gotten my job, I likely would have had to go without and in a non-life threatening emergency would have bankrupted me to get treatment. I think healthcare is one thing that should not be dependent on money.

And the thing about retirement is that while we all know we should do it, not everyone does. Even with work sponsored 401Ks and IRAs how often are we already hearing about 50-year olds who haven't saved a thing toward retirement? So we'll have 80 year olds taking jobs that should be going to younger workers because they can't afford to retire. And the streets will be littered with little old homeless people!!

so your answer to your expensive healthcare problem is to let a group who have run up 59 TRILLION in unfunded liabilities be in charge of your healthcare? And as far as 50 year olds who didn't save for retirement, whos fault is that, and do you really think a 1000 a month check from uncle sam fixes that problem?

[mraynrand]

]I think healthcare is one thing that should not be dependent on money.

Well too bad, because it is. It costs real money to develop and produce drugs, it costs real money and 10-12 years of your life in school after high school to become a physician, and it costs money to keep the doors of a hospital open and ship your injured ass in on a helicopter. There are problems all over the healthcare system, from suppliers gouging to unions fighting for cadillac coverages, to huge end-of-life expenses, to people demanding all sorts of care they don't need. But one thing is certain: so long as people see it as 'a basic human right' and divorced from being 'dependent on money' we're going to have a hell of a time fixing problems in the system. It ISN'T free, and if more people treated it like other commodities they value (like TVs, cars, phones, food) instead of treating it like it's air - free for all to breath - it wouldn't cost so damn much.

And BTW, in most cases it actually isn't dependent on money. In most areas, the county hospitals provide tons of free care, and in many cases, the care is actually better than private institutes, especially for things like trauma.

[Scott Campbell]

I think I'm going to break rank on health care. There are too many people who do everything right that end up getting dropped by providers and royally screwed. And I'm not talking about the typical screwups who can't hold a job. I'm talking about lots of responsible tax paying contributors to society that followed the rules and paid their premiums.

[Freak Out]

People over profit when it comes to healthcare as far as I'm concerned. All healthcare professionals need to be compensated accordingly and funding can be supplied for all the research in the world but our nations healthcare foundations should not be set in Wall Street concrete.

[Freak Out]

BTW....which one of you Randians (?) is the Pivot Man in this CJ? John Gault?

[MJZiggy]

]I think healthcare is one thing that should not be dependent on money.

Well too bad, because it is. It costs real money to develop and produce drugs, it costs real money and 10-12 years of your life in school after high school to become a physician, and it costs money to keep the doors of a hospital open and ship your injured ass in on a helicopter. There are problems all over the healthcare system, from suppliers gouging to unions fighting for cadillac coverages, to huge end-of-life expenses, to people demanding all sorts of care they don't need. But one thing is certain: so long as people see it as 'a basic human right' and divorced from being 'dependent on money' we're going to have a hell of a time fixing problems in the system. It ISN'T free, and if more people treated it like other commodities they value (like TVs, cars, phones, food) instead of treating it like it's air - free for all to breath - it wouldn't cost so damn much.

And BTW, in most cases it actually isn't dependent on money. In most areas, the county hospitals provide tons of free care, and in many cases, the care is actually better than private institutes, especially for things like trauma.

I never said it was free--that hospitals and doctors and drug companies shouldn't be paid for their services. The fact remains that these services are necessary for the people who need them--and everybody needs them. The reason HMO's ever became popular in the first place is that the insurance companies came to realize that it was cheaper to keep the population healthy than it was to pay for rehabilitative care and preventable emergencies. If the people cramming the emergency rooms for their basic care were covered and could get that care from a doctor, then the Emergency Room could go back to treating emergencies. My question becomes this then, and we've all heard it before: if you don't want the government handling insurance, how do you plan to make sure that everyone has access to preventative healthcare? (or would you rather have to fork out $700 each time an indigent shows up at the ER with the flu that's turned into pneumonia? 'cause basically that's what you have to do now)

[HowardRoark]

BTW....which one of you Randians (?) is the Pivot Man in this CJ? John Gault?

Who is John Galt?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Re: Moral Hazards and Happy Meals for the Circle Jerk

BTW, Ty…if you are out there, did you know a guy named David Einhorn in high school?

Einhorn? that sounds suspiciously jewish. Ty would not hang with people with jewishy sounding names.

I prefer good, american names like nelson.

Ty is aware of many successful (and, when we really think about it..is there any other kind) hebes from the Miltown area. Ellen Freidman, Jon Steuer, Howie Epstein, jerry and dave zucker,

[HowardRoark]

Re: Moral Hazards and Happy Meals for the Circle Jerk

BTW, Ty…if you are out there, did you know a guy named David Einhorn in high school?

Einhorn? that sounds suspiciously jewish. Ty would not hang with people with jewishy sounding names.

I prefer good, american names like nelson.

Ty is aware of many successful (and, when we really think about it..is there any other kind) hebes from the Miltown area. Ellen Freidman, Jon Steuer, Howie Epstein, jerry and dave zucker,

Hit The Googles on Einhorn. He helped bring Lehman (or is that Nelson?) Brothers down. One of your own from the Noth Side in 1984. I like his book.

Quit playing the poor is me anti-Semit card, It's getting old.

What do you knw about the RJC? I was told tonight they will bring Obama down later this year.

[bobblehead]

I think I'm going to break rank on health care. There are too many people who do everything right that end up getting dropped by providers and royally screwed. And I'm not talking about the typical screwups who can't hold a job. I'm talking about lots of responsible tax paying contributors to society that followed the rules and paid their premiums.

We need certain reforms, no doubt, but gov't run healthcare is not a solution to anything except low taxes.

[bobblehead]

]I think healthcare is one thing that should not be dependent on money.

Well too bad, because it is. It costs real money to develop and produce drugs, it costs real money and 10-12 years of your life in school after high school to become a physician, and it costs money to keep the doors of a hospital open and ship your injured ass in on a helicopter. There are problems all over the healthcare system, from suppliers gouging to unions fighting for cadillac coverages, to huge end-of-life expenses, to people demanding all sorts of care they don't need. But one thing is certain: so long as people see it as 'a basic human right' and divorced from being 'dependent on money' we're going to have a hell of a time fixing problems in the system. It ISN'T free, and if more people treated it like other commodities they value (like TVs, cars, phones, food) instead of treating it like it's air - free for all to breath - it wouldn't cost so damn much.

And BTW, in most cases it actually isn't dependent on money. In most areas, the county hospitals provide tons of free care, and in many cases, the care is actually better than private institutes, especially for things like trauma.

I never said it was free--that hospitals and doctors and drug companies shouldn't be paid for their services. The fact remains that these services are necessary for the people who need them--and everybody needs them. The reason HMO's ever became popular in the first place is that the insurance companies came to realize that it was cheaper to keep the population healthy than it was to pay for rehabilitative care and preventable emergencies. If the people cramming the emergency rooms for their basic care were covered and could get that care from a doctor, then the Emergency Room could go back to treating emergencies. My question becomes this then, and we've all heard it before: if you don't want the government handling insurance, how do you plan to make sure that everyone has access to preventative healthcare? (or would you rather have to fork out $700 each time an indigent shows up at the ER with the flu that's turned into pneumonia? 'cause basically that's what you have to do now)

to quote ted kennedy, HMO's solve the access problem for healthcare. OOps, I guess he was wrong.....again. We need to deregulate medicine, regulate disaster health care policies with a high deductible, and get people funding medical health care savings accounts. Hopefully when your boss no longer has to pay for your healthcare he can afford to pay you more. Hopefully when you make your own decisions on healthcare you will save the entire system money.

[MJZiggy]

That's a big hopefully. You really think when the giant companies don't have to pay health insurance, they'll automatically put all that money into equally distributed pay increases? It will go onto the corporate bottom line with a few execs getting decent bonuses and the peons getting very little. And then they have to fund health savings accounts. I can see this costing low level Admin Assistants a whole lot of money that they really couldn't afford to give up.

[Scott Campbell]

You really think when the giant companies don't have to pay health insurance, they'll automatically put all that money into equally distributed pay increases?

Yeah, I do expect that to happen. Most will pay you more if you opt out of coverage now. They're not required by law to provide health insurance now. They do so to remain competitive - the same reason they pay what they do instead of paying minimum wage.

[Scott Campbell]

I can see this costing low level Admin Assistants a whole lot of money that they really couldn't afford to give up.

Healthcare is expensive. Like everything else one buys, it will cost the poor far more as a percentage of income than it will the people who earn more.