Microsoft CEO sets benchmark as "Apple experience"

[MJZiggy]

DD, I've used both for graphic work and frankly just can't tell the difference...

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DD, I've used both for graphic work and frankly just can't tell the difference...

Yeah I personally don't understand this argument anymore either. Back in the hay day, the PowerPC chips ran Photoshop, rendering software, etc more effectively due to the chips floating point calculation advantage (I believe).

Now that everything is x86 (Intel or AMD), their isn't an architecture difference.

One thing I guess is that Apple has it's own series of high end professional tools, but I don't know how frequently they are used.

[3irty1]

See the post on the closed system. Microsoft is going to be competing with open source where as Apple is not. Cost trimming and linux improvement will someday lead to linux workstations for your average office worker.

This I don't buy. Linux workstations would be cheap, secure, and make a ton of sense for businesses that have enough IT to do self support on free software but It's a long shot that many corporations could make a huge shift like this. Not enough critical commercial software is cross platform. Even in the cases where all productivity software is usable under linux, most corporations are dependent on Outlook for much more than email. Linux is likely to always be more trouble than its worth. American business still runs quarter to quarter.

In the future it will be. OO is pretty much completely compatible with Microsoft Office. Eclipse is linux native. There are plenty of email clients that do the same things as Outlook or Lotus. Give it about 10 years.

Well anything can happen in 10 years. I think the strongest chance of this coming true is in cross platform software not linux programs to replace other programs. A company that already chooses to use software like eclipse, pro/e, Eagle, etc on Windows will be the ones that can potentially switch. Lotus notes is already cross platform too. Lotus notes is also a complete piece of shit. We use it at work and as much as we'd love to switch to Outlook we just can't because of all the collaborative software and custom shit that's been developed over the years. Its way more than an email client. To my knowledge there is nothing that can do what Outlook can do as well as Outlook can do it.

Oh believe me I know my company is hooked on Lotus as well. It sucks balls because I had to make an HTML email for our project that the CEO wants to work in Notes and it is impossible to make anything not look like ass.

We're switching September 1st to Outlook 2007, which is retarded because it has worse HTML support than Outlook 2004. Dumb dumb dumb.

Dude, Outlook is a piece of shit too. I wish more companies would use Google's Corporate suite, as it'd be cheaper than Outlook, and has much better calendars, mailing, document management, etc.

But, imo Thunderbird out "Outlooks" Outlook 2007 by a significant margin.

The big linux apps are cross platform.

Outlook is practically free since it comes with Office. Thunderbird is impressive for what it is but can't be compared to the collaborative capabilities of Outlook. After working with Outlook and exchange, Lotus and Domino, or any other groupware for that matter comes up way way short.

I have no idea what you are talking about with Outlook 2007. I'm pretty sure it can handle a simple HTML email. I've been very happy with the updates to Outlook and all of Office 2007.

What do you mean by all the big Linux apps are cross platform?

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Outlook 2007 has far worse support for HTML emails. They switched rendering engines to something more along the lines of IE5/6 instead of the vastly improved almost-standard-friendly IE7.

I'm pretty sure Thunderbird can schedule meetings on calendars, allow you to view others calendars, etc. I don't know for sure because I've never used it in a corporate environment. But, I am confident there is something available because like firefox it has a million add-ons.

[3irty1]

Outlook 2007 has far worse support for HTML emails. They switched rendering engines to something more along the lines of IE5/6 instead of the vastly improved almost-standard-friendly IE7.

I'm pretty sure Thunderbird can schedule meetings on calendars, allow you to view others calendars, etc. I don't know for sure because I've never used it in a corporate environment. But, I am confident there is something available because like firefox it has a million add-ons.

You must be doing some pretty intense HTML if you can't get it to look right.

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Outlook 2007 has far worse support for HTML emails. They switched rendering engines to something more along the lines of IE5/6 instead of the vastly improved almost-standard-friendly IE7.

I'm pretty sure Thunderbird can schedule meetings on calendars, allow you to view others calendars, etc. I don't know for sure because I've never used it in a corporate environment. But, I am confident there is something available because like firefox it has a million add-ons.

You must be doing some pretty intense HTML if you can't get it to look right.

Nah dude. HTML emails are actually really hard to make. Every email reader looks quite a bit different. I have an email that looks perfect when loaded as a page in firefox and IE, but looks like crap in safari unless aligning the elements as blocks and defining a doctype.

Notes doesn't have support for backgrounds or styles. I don't think that Outlook has any support beyond CSS1. Said email looks like shit in Yahoo, looks good in GMail and Hotmail. Looks horrendous in Notes due to the lack of background image support.

Of course there would be ways around it for Notes by not having to use repeating images for the inner part of a panel with rounded edges, but then it is impossible to have a dynamic table size. Curses.. curses.

CSS4 will have a built-in rounded corner functionality for panels. How glorious that will be!

http://www.campaignmonitor.com/blog/archives/2007/01/microsoft_takes_email_design_b.html

[HowardRoark]

Apple has it's own series of professional tools

Hey Ty, you should dust off your resume. At least you will get paid.

[MJZiggy]

Ok, that took me a minute. (need coffee)

[Tyrone Bigguns]

If Apple isn't intersted in the battle they will never win the battle. And if they never win the battle they'll never be the power that Microsoft is, or even close to it.

THEY DON'T WANT TO BE. YOU CANNOT BE THAT BIG AND HAVE GOOD QUALITY. THAT IS THE POINT. THEY MAKE OODLES AND OODLES OF CASH.

So Apple cares more about making good products than making more money?

Yeah. Sure.

For having 3% market share yet making 25% of the profit of MS, that is pretty damn good. For one, growing too fast can be detrimental to business, profits, quality control, etc. Secondly, if they wanted to be the leader they'd sell their stuff cheaper. From Steve's mouth they are a hardware company first, and a software provider second. That fact alone shows that they're not in competition with Microsoft at all.

Based on stock growth and cash on hand, Apple has virtually nothing to worry about anytime soon. They're doing just fine and growing quite rapidly.

Do you think BWM or Maserati are competing with GM?!?!?

More bs from the dipshit....you put the profit as equal to MS...yet, they aren't making that huge profit in the pc division..that comes from other products.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Apple has it's own series of professional tools

Hey Ty, you should dust off your resume. At least you will get paid.

Thanx for the career advice. I will get right on it.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Microsoft has been stealing good ideas from Apple since the dawn of the PC. Snore.

Um, Apple and MS stole from Xerox Parc.

ya, Xerox came up with the BIG IDEA of graphical interface, but Apple made nice implementation & innovations, which Microsoft copied, but not too closely to lose court battles.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Microsoft has been stealing good ideas from Apple since the dawn of the PC. Snore.

Um, Apple and MS stole from Xerox Parc.

ya, Xerox came up with the BIG IDEA of graphical interface, but Apple made nice implementation & innovations, which Microsoft copied, but not too closely to lose court battles.

MS copied? Proof?

When you both steal from the same place..you are bound to wind up looking pretty similar.

[Harlan Huckleby]

MS copied? Proof?

When you both steal from the same place..you are bound to wind up looking pretty similar.

Details escape me, but Windows regulary incorporated apple innovations with slight variations. I remember, sonny, but I just can't remember.

[Zool]

Windows came out before Apple, and they build MS DOS as its background. Apple decided to build an actual GUI instead of a front end for DOS. Thats, and the antiquated x86 registry are the reason MS is behind.

MS could scrap x86 code entirely right now, but that would not sell well for 3-4 years. There's people running XP on P2's. I myself went for Vista64 with my new setup. It runs quite well because a lot of the backwards compatibility was removed. As soon as they remove all of it, the MS OS will catch up.

[Zool]

MS copied? Proof?

When you both steal from the same place..you are bound to wind up looking pretty similar.

Details escape me, but Windows regulary incorporated apple innovations with slight variations. I remember, sonny, but I just can't remember.

Sorta like every other corporation does? The PC industry is a copy-cat industry just like the rest of them.