McCain/Obama

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Not sure about this but I thought Merrill Lynch was one of Macs biggest...er..supporters? Funny that he was slamming Wall Street fat cats today.

He is flip flopping AGAIN.

March: ``I'm always for less regulation.''

Now: ``clean up Wall Street'' and ``replace the outdated, patchwork quilt of regulatory oversight,''

And, now betraying his conserv "roots." Government has ``a clear responsibility'' to make sure consumers are protected and that rules are enforced.

Government..more of the nanny state!

[texaspackerbacker]

Do you lefties really NOT get the picture?

When Obama and McCain BOTH talk about things like "cleaning up Wall Street" and "replace the outdated, patchwork quilt of regulatory oversight", they are actually approaching the situation from diametrically opposite ends of the spectrum.

Obama would inflict the heavy hand of government, and do his best to CHANGE our whole economic system--CHANGE it in the direction of SOCIALISM.

McCain, on the other hand, would streamline the limited regulatory function to the extent that there would be no contradiction/no flip-flopping at all in these two statements that were cited.

Effectively reining in the abusers of the system ends up BEING less regulation for the vast majority who are NOT scamming the system. The mish-mash of agencies doing the regulating now have done nothing but hassle the good people--while the abusers manage to slip through the cracks in the regulatory picture.

When McCain says CHANGE, he means in the NATURE of regulation. When Obama says CHANGE, he means in the DEGREE of regulation--much much more of it.

[MJZiggy]

How the hell do you know that, Tex? Did Obama say something about regulating Wall Street with a heavy governmental hand? I have yet to hear anything out of him that would indicate specifically that he wants a heavier handed government anywhere.

Nor has McCain specifically stated how he wants to accomplish his fixes.

Quit putting words into their mouths.

Skin, this is what I was talking about when I mentioned the same-old-shit attacks. If it were just Tex that would be one thing...

[HowardRoark]

You could make a pretty strong case that regulation in response to Enron could end up being the “smoking gun” in this financial crisis. FASB 157 was put into effect in order to “regulate” bad balance sheets. The problem is that balance sheets already had been put together. If all these companies would not be required to “mark to market” all the time, this problem would not be here.

I am arguing for or against FASB 157. Just saying what is going on. In essence, an accounting standard could be shutting down our financial system

[SkinBasket]

Skin, this is what I was talking about when I mentioned the same-old-shit attacks. If it were just Tex that would be one thing...

Well, while I still find it hard to believe you defend Obama out of a sense of overwhelming justice rather than political leaning, I would posit that a vast majority of the activity in this thread has been in direct response to anti McCain and/or Palin articles posted by a certain sophisticated rat (once again, not that there's a problem with that, that's what we're here for).

I've been trying to stay central, but the more you guys rip on the guy using a lot of hyperbole and going after him for the same shit over and over, the more I feel like I need to defend the dude. However between a few of the things that I've read lately and the contradiction between what he says he's going to do and what his VP candidate believes in.

I think this may be an issue of perspective that stems from your belief you're are in the center, when everything you've posted about politics in the past and recently would certainly indicate you have a healthy blue tinge about you. Without trying to stereotype you, or maybe I am but just can't help it, I know plenty of Democrats who believe the same thing, or don't believe it, but say they're Independent or Centrist as a means of essentially cheating in any argument by immediately placing any view more conservative than theirs further "right," and therefor less "mainstream." For all intensive purposes, whether intentional or not, that appears what you are doing here.

As far as hyperbole goes, I think there's plenty on both sides to go around. I hardly think the American hating terrorist leader in disguise Barak Hussein Obama suffers from it any more than the patriotic war hero turned true American leader John McCain.

[LL2]

Hanging with the high rollers isn't McCain's style........

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_125704.html

Big Clinton supporter to come out and endorse McCain and calls Obama an "elitest."

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

The truth is that Obama has had a really good life. He portrays the image of being from the south side of Chicago. The truth is he went to a private, and very expensive school in Hawaii, and he went to Harvard. Those are elitest institutions, not schools in the hood of the south side of Chicago.

[packinpatland]

You know, going to an 'elitest' school, doesn't make one elite.
My daughter went to a small private university, and then on to Yale. We/she are not elitest. She was the product of the public school system. How is hard work on the part of parents/grandparents securing the best for their child considered elitest?
Good for him for going to those schools, he wasn't legacied......he had to work and pay for the priveledge of attending.


Lynn Forester de Rothschild, now that's someone anyone could call elitest. Talk about legacy........

[LL2]

You know, going to an 'elitest' school, doesn't make one elite.
My daughter went to a small private university, and then on to Yale. We/she are not elitest. She was the product of the public school system. How is hard work on the part of parents/grandparents securing the best for their child considered elitest?
Good for him for going to those schools, he wasn't legacied......he had to work and pay for the priveledge of attending.

Well, being in an elite class is by defintion having the ability to have to choose the best of anything. So, by that defintion it does make you and Obama among the elite. Did Obama have to pay for his private school education growing up? He had to work for that or was it his folks? Can a family making $50k a year or less afford to send their kids to a school that may cost $5k a year or more? I'd would be hard to do that for 2-3 kids on an average income. I love how you try to give the impression that Obama is an average Joe and McCain is a high roller. Yes, the McCain's are wealthy, so what, and so is Obama and his wife. McCain, mostly his wife, may be worth $100 million, while Obama may be worth $10 million. I don't know for sure, but the truth is Obama is an elitist. Biden and Palin are the average Joe's among the group. Biden is one of the lowest wage earners among senators, and Palin hasn't made much yet.

[packinpatland]

You know, going to an 'elitest' school, doesn't make one elite.
My daughter went to a small private university, and then on to Yale. We/she are not elitest. She was the product of the public school system. How is hard work on the part of parents/grandparents securing the best for their child considered elitest?
Good for him for going to those schools, he wasn't legacied......he had to work and pay for the priveledge of attending.

Well, being in an elite class is by defintion having the ability to have to choose the best of anything. So, by that defintion it does make you and Obama among the elite. Did Obama have to pay for his private school education growing up? He had to work for that or was it his folks? Can a family making $50k a year or less afford to send their kids to a school that may cost $5k a year or more? I'd would be hard to do that for 2-3 kids on an average income. I love how you try to give the impression that Obama is an average Joe and McCain is a high roller. Yes, the McCain's are wealthy, so what, and so is Obama and his wife. McCain, mostly his wife, may be worth $100 million, while Obama may be worth $10 million. I don't know for sure, but the truth is Obama is an elitist. Biden and Palin are the average Joe's among the group. Biden is one of the lowest wage earners among senators, and Palin hasn't made much yet.

All you say would make sense...but you don't even take into consideration the hard work of the child... my daughter worked hard to secure scholarships. At the time she went to Drew University it was 33K......with two other kids at home, there was no way we could have afforded that. In addition to her scholarship, she also worked as a RA for three years. There was no scholarship $ offered for Yale.......like Obama, she graduated with hefty school loans. She worked as a TA for the two years she was there.
All I'm saying is this..........Obama may have money now....but didn't always have the advantages wealth brings.

[HowardRoark]

You know, going to an 'elitest' school, doesn't make one elite.
My daughter went to a small private university, and then on to Yale. We/she are not elitest. She was the product of the public school system. How is hard work on the part of parents/grandparents securing the best for their child considered elitest?
Good for him for going to those schools, he wasn't legacied......he had to work and pay for the priveledge of attending.

Well, being in an elite class is by defintion having the ability to have to choose the best of anything. So, by that defintion it does make you and Obama among the elite. Did Obama have to pay for his private school education growing up? He had to work for that or was it his folks? Can a family making $50k a year or less afford to send their kids to a school that may cost $5k a year or more? I'd would be hard to do that for 2-3 kids on an average income. I love how you try to give the impression that Obama is an average Joe and McCain is a high roller. Yes, the McCain's are wealthy, so what, and so is Obama and his wife. McCain, mostly his wife, may be worth $100 million, while Obama may be worth $10 million. I don't know for sure, but the truth is Obama is an elitist. Biden and Palin are the average Joe's among the group. Biden is one of the lowest wage earners among senators, and Palin hasn't made much yet.

All you say would make sense...but you don't even take into consideration the hard work of the child... my daughter worked hard to secure scholarships. At the time she went to Drew University it was 33K......with two other kids at home, there was no way we could have afforded that. In addition to her scholarship, she also worked as a RA for three years. There was no scholarship $ offered for Yale.......like Obama, she graduated with hefty school loans. She worked as a TA for the two years she was there.
All I'm saying is this..........Obama may have money now....but didn't always have the advantages wealth brings.

Who cares about the money....that's not elitist. Obama's problem is he is an "Elitist" on thought. He thinks he and his kind have a monopoly on ideas. They want tell all of us "great unwashed" how to think.

I think where the money came from is telling too. McCain's "elite" money came from beer swilling people over the past half century. Obama's came from royalties on books he has written on his favorite subject. Himself.

His latest mocking of "ownership society" is very telling.....and scary.

[texaspackerbacker]

How the hell do you know that, Tex? Did Obama say something about regulating Wall Street with a heavy governmental hand? I have yet to hear anything out of him that would indicate specifically that he wants a heavier handed government anywhere.

Nor has McCain specifically stated how he wants to accomplish his fixes.

Quit putting words into their mouths.

Skin, this is what I was talking about when I mentioned the same-old-shit attacks. If it were just Tex that would be one thing...

Obama, like McCain, has, in fact, criticized the ineffectiveness of the regulatory process on these Wall Street giants. As for the "solution" aspect, no, I don't KNOW what Obama would do, any more than anybody KNOWS what anybody, including themselves, would do in future circumstances. And it's certainly a good point that Obama has virtually no record of DOING anything about anything--the inexperience angle.

However, the best indicators of what he would do in terms of specifics are these:

1. what he advocates in general--inflicting the heavy hand of government indiscriminately on people--which involves hassling a huge number of good normal people in a usually unsuccessful attempt to foil a few scam artists, and

2. what his kind--liberal Democrats--have done always and forever--increase the size and power of government and get in the business of people who just want to be left alone and play by the rules.

Now, Ziggy, do you have ANY knowledge or reason to believe that Obama's brand of CHANGE is anything other than what I've described?

[MOBB DEEP]

For all those that say Obama is a good speaker and very eloquent I just do not see it, or hear it. He's no Bill Clinton when it comes to speaking. McCain may not be the best speaker, but he's no worse than Obama. I've been watching CNN a lot lately and when I see Obama speak he seems to pause a lot and say "you know", which is the equivalent of saying "um." I think Biden and Palin are much more effective speakers.

wifey said i should just write "absurd..."

[HowardRoark]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDJSVPAx8xc

[SkinBasket]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDJSVPAx8xc

Eeek. That's uncomfortable. He kind of drops right into panic mode doesn't he?

[sheepshead]

The debates will put this thing away for good.