Stick a fork in this moron.

[mraynrand]

I didn't even post in that thread. Why don't you try one of the many I've posted to in which I state that I am no fan of abortion but think it should be absolutely outlawed after 20 weeks (which usually starts a huge discussion about 21 weeks and 19 weeks that I don't care to repeat).

The argument against 20 is in that thread. You don't want to start a discussion about 19 or 21 because you'll have to admit that 20 is completely arbitrary.

[MJZiggy]

The Broken Window theory (which has nothing to do with abortion you sick fuck) is the original method of crime reduction that was started in the NYC subway system and spread nationwide. The theory states that if you keep the physical space of an area in good condition (fix the broken windows--or in the case of the subways, clean the grafitti) and crack down on petty gateway crimes (in the case of the subway system it was fare beating and turnstile jumping) that a sense of order will be achieved (and it was) that is a natural deterrent to crime.

What did that have to do with abortion? You mentioned it in response to abortion - you sick fuck

The exchange:

"arcilite": "Well, there are statistics to back up this theory: Abortion reduces crime. Which is another reason i like it"

Zig: "I'm not completely sold on the Freakonomics take on that one, though I found it completely fascinating. I lean a little bit toward the Broken Window philosophy there."

You're like off this morning or something. Abortion reduces crime is a direct reference to the theory in Freakonomics. I just told you that. I don't completely buy the theory that it was the legalization of abortion that led to the reduction in crime that I just freaking explained to you.

[mraynrand]

The Broken Window theory (which has nothing to do with abortion you sick fuck) is the original method of crime reduction that was started in the NYC subway system and spread nationwide. The theory states that if you keep the physical space of an area in good condition (fix the broken windows--or in the case of the subways, clean the grafitti) and crack down on petty gateway crimes (in the case of the subway system it was fare beating and turnstile jumping) that a sense of order will be achieved (and it was) that is a natural deterrent to crime.

What did that have to do with abortion? You mentioned it in response to abortion - you sick fuck

The exchange:

"arcilite": "Well, there are statistics to back up this theory: Abortion reduces crime. Which is another reason i like it"

Zig: "I'm not completely sold on the Freakonomics take on that one, though I found it completely fascinating. I lean a little bit toward the Broken Window philosophy there."

You're like off this morning or something. Abortion reduces crime is a direct reference to the theory in Freakonomics. I just told you that. I don't completely buy the theory that it was the legalization of abortion that led to the reduction in crime that I just freaking explained to you.

But then you brought up the Broken Window theory out of nowhere.

[MJZiggy]

I was speaking to sex education, not abortion. Even if you're pro-choice, I think that girls should be educated on the alternatives to abortion and the risks. .

The alternative(s)? The risks are obvious - you will have annoying, precious brat(s), or delinquent malcontent(s) for the rest of your life.

The alternatives to abortion are effective birth control in the first place (if you think you're going to preach abstinence and think that hormone raged teenagers in a society that preaches sex are going to keep their hands off of each other, you're dreaming). Then if they do become pregnant, the alternative is to adopt the "annoying, precious brat" who will be less likely to become a delinquent malcontent as he has parents who wanted him, then you don't have him for the rest of your life, you haven't damaged yourself, and people who do want him will have the baby they are desperate for.

[MJZiggy]

I didn't even post in that thread. Why don't you try one of the many I've posted to in which I state that I am no fan of abortion but think it should be absolutely outlawed after 20 weeks (which usually starts a huge discussion about 21 weeks and 19 weeks that I don't care to repeat).

The argument against 20 is in that thread. You don't want to start a discussion about 19 or 21 because you'll have to admit that 20 is completely arbitrary.

Who gives a damn if it's arbitrary. A doctor can look at a fetus and determine if it's viable or not. Make the limit 20 weeks and if the doc decides it has to wait a week, then they wait a week to be sure. She's been pregnant for 20 weeks, another won't kill her.

[mraynrand]

I didn't even post in that thread. Why don't you try one of the many I've posted to in which I state that I am no fan of abortion but think it should be absolutely outlawed after 20 weeks (which usually starts a huge discussion about 21 weeks and 19 weeks that I don't care to repeat).

The argument against 20 is in that thread. You don't want to start a discussion about 19 or 21 because you'll have to admit that 20 is completely arbitrary.

Who gives a damn if it's arbitrary. A doctor can look at a fetus and determine if it's viable or not. Make the limit 20 weeks and if the doc decides it has to wait a week, then they wait a week to be sure. She's been pregnant for 20 weeks, another won't kill her.

WTF?

[HowardRoark]

Arclite mentioned that abortion reduces crime which is a reference to a theory in a book called Freakonomics Twenty years after abortion became legal, crime across the country dramatically dropped after it was projected to become much worse not better. The authors of the book suggest that an alternate reason for the drop is that all the babies that were unwanted and would have been mistreated and grown up to be criminals were aborted rather than born.

The irony of this of course is that our own fresh faced golden boy (nothing intended by the word), Barack Obama would have perfectly fit the profile of someone who should have been aborted. The guy was a “mistake”, his father had no use for him, he had to live on food stamps for awhile, and lastly (and by far the worst of them all); he ended up being raised by his grandparents. And they were white. Not only white, but “typical white folks.” The kind of people who might actually have the gall to be a little nervous when approached by a group of young men who should have been aborted, but somehow made it through the gauntlet of “Women’s rights”….i.e. pregnancy.

I always get a chuckle out of the naïve rubes on the Right who say such things as, “but that fetus that you chose to abort could have grown up and found a cure for cancer….or maybe he would have been President!!” Silly people.

[HowardRoark]

What is it, 40 or 50 million total by now since Roe v. Wade? Enough of those would have been voting age by 2000 and 2004 to make up the difference in the election and swing it to Gore and/or Kerry--Why would people who would otherwise have been aborted fetuses vote Dem/lib? Why does anybody vote Dem/lib? The solid majority of abortions occur among the same demographic of people who tend to vote liberal--stupid immoral trash--no offense to any chronic Dem/lib voters in the forum. You're probably exceptions to the rule :P

So while I tend to oppose abortion, I also tend to look at the big picture. Flushing all of America down the toilet of liberalism would have been worse than 40 some million dead babies--mostly from ya'all's kind of families.

Wouldn’t it be much more efficient to just find the list of the people who vote for Democrats and just kill them?

[Freak Out]

I support thermonuclear warfare because it reduces crime.

Abortion will go away when all humans are dead or sterile. Criminalize it all you want but it will never stop. It's that simple.
As a nation we need to use all the knowledge and $$$ we have available to reduce unwanted pregnancies instead of turning away from something because some believe it promotes teenage sex or promiscuity.
Move out of the dark ages America.

[MJZiggy]

You've just brought up an interesting question: if abortion has been legal since the 70's, through two terms of Reagan, a term of Bush and two terms of Bush the scary, why is it even part of a discussion of Presidential politics? It's been legal for 30 years through 3 republican administrations and they haven't even been able to shoot down late term abortion (and now I'm hearing of abortion foes that don't want late term abortion legislation to pass because they wouldn't then be able to use the more graphic images to make their cases???? wtf)

Either way, Freak is right. criminalize it, Villify it, demonize it, it's still gonna happen and it wouldn't be such an issue if we prevented the pregnancies in the first place.

[SkinBasket]

why is it even part of a discussion of Presidential politics?

Typically it isn't. At least until the dem candidate claims Roe v Wade will be threatened by the election of a republican, or the appointment of a conservative justice. Just the usual demagoguery. No big deal.

[arcilite]

If you outlaw abortions, only outlaws will have abortions.

[Cheesehead Craig]

It's time for the Gallup Poll numbers:

Obama leads by 9 pts 51-42. Obama has led in the Gallup Poll for a month straight.

10 days left until the election.

[SkinBasket]

Obama leads by 9 pts 51-42. Obama has led in the Gallup Poll for a month straight.

Does he get extra points for that like in NASCAR?

[mraynrand]

I support thermonuclear warfare because it reduces crime.

Abortion will go away when all humans are dead or sterile. Criminalize it all you want but it will never stop. It's that simple.
As a nation we need to use all the knowledge and $$$ we have available to reduce unwanted pregnancies instead of turning away from something because some believe it promotes teenage sex or promiscuity.
[b]Move out of the dark ages America.[\b]

Ahh, I didn't realize I was against abortion because it promotes promiscuity. I thought I just didn't like the idea of putting babies in blenders. I'm glad that's cleared up.

Were there more abortions in the dark ages?