What would YOU do?

[Deputy Nutz]

You're a fucking moron Tank, I won't bother having a serious conversation with you anymore.

I guess I am the moron for trying to convience a 22 year old burner who decided to take a semester off of college to burn more weed and live in his parents basement while he dreamed of getting a band together. Tank you know nothing about responsiblity and truly nothing about parenthood, please pray that you have not or will not procreate anytime soon.

[RashanGary]

Some damn nice posts here...

Ziggy, HH in the beginning had some short sweet ones that hit home. Nutz on how responsibility takes over was pretty much my life in a nut shell.

I do get a kick out of how much control people want to have on their kids. It is a natural response IMO. You love them so much and know how your buddys hound women and try to fuck them and leave them. Who would want that for their own daughters?

I have a few goals as a parent. They are pretty broad.

1. Be honest
2. Support my kids interests and not have them support mine
3. Love them
4. Treat them with respect, how I would want to be treated
5. Keep them safe when they cannot while putting most of the responsibility on them

For instance if my son is running on concrete I put my hand on the ground and say "this is very hard.....I hit the ground..OUCH..." He watches and takes notice. Each time I do the same but I do not tell him "NO, don't run" I just tell him the danger. Overtime, I think he's come to respect my words and advice. I once told him "yuck....icky" with soap. He decided he would eat it anyway. I wasn't about to stop him again. He found out it tasted like crap and I think he started to trust me a little. I've told him the danger of concrete many times and a few times he's fallen. Over time, he's realizing that I don't tell him things just for the hell of it. I don't force anything on him, but when I tell him somethings dangerous, I can see that he's starting to really trust me and believe me. I don't know, maybe the trust I give in him to control his own life and the honest, non exaggerated advice I give him is building a relationship where he trusts me too. I will never let him burn himself on the stove or anything, but the little cuts and scrapes caused him to have a sense of self-preservation. I think it's natural to learn what not to do.

My main goal is to only force him to do things when it is real danger. Mostly, I just give honest advice without being forcefull. He has a funny way of not wanting to get hurt. I guess we all want to keep ourselves safe. Maybe one day, he'll respect what I have to say about drugs and as much as I love my son, I'm going to give him the same respect I would want and let him make his own choices. From a young age, he's been learning that he can do whatever he wants but some things are dangerous and hurt him. I think that will carry over. If we take on all their decisions they'll never learn to make good ones for themselves. It's not our lives after all. Like skinbasket said, if they're doing drugs, they are cut off from money. Not as a punishment, but just as a way of saying "I will not support one of the few things I truely do not believe in." I think alot of things lead up to the point where they use drugs though. Mostly, I think parents trying to control their kids fucks their natural self preservation up.

If I ever found out my kid was doing cocaine or anything serious, I would seriously freak and put him in treatment because I do believe those types of substances are death waiting to happen. Somehow, I just don't think my kids are going to use drugs at all untill college and maybe they'll give it the college try but I think they, like me will care about themselves enough not to over do it..I think by not controlling them, they'll get practice taking care of themselves before college gets there so they won't be naive about dhe dangers that surround them. All I know is I can't be there every second. I hope for the best but in the end, they are in control of their own lives.

I've never punished my son, and of all the people in his life, he respects me more than anyone else. When I talk, he listens and usually takes my advice. Not because he is forced to but because he trusts me. It's touching to have that relatinship with him. I hope it lasts. Also, his common sense and good decision making is stunning to me. I don't need to be his little protector making sure he doesn't cut his foot. I'll feel out the whole drug situation and like with the concrete, I'll tell him how it can sneakly damage yoru life. In the end, it's going to be his choice because he will beable to hide it if he wants to.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

You're a fucking moron Tank, I won't bother having a serious conversation with you anymore.

I guess I am the moron for trying to convience a 22 year old burner who decided to take a semester off of college to burn more weed and live in his parents basement while he dreamed of getting a band together. Tank you know nothing about responsiblity and truly nothing about parenthood, please pray that you have not or will not procreate anytime soon.

That was last fall. I came back to college last spring. I am registered for the fall.

Cant you read? I said before that i dont want to get married until 2014. I sure as hell not going to want to have a child out of wedlock.

BTW, since you smoke more weed than I could ever dream off, you are the perfect example that weed is not addictive. Are you addicted today as a volvo driving soccer dad? See, I can quit just like you when, say, Ive matured.

[Scott Campbell]

See, I can quit just like you when, say, Ive matured.

So you're waiting for your testicles to drop and your voice to change?

[Deputy Nutz]

That was last fall. I came back to college last spring. I am registered for the fall.

Cant you read? I said before that i dont want to get married until 2014. I sure as hell not going to want to have a child out of wedlock.

BTW, since you smoke more weed than I could ever dream off, you are the perfect example that weed is not addictive. Are you addicted today as a volvo driving soccer dad? See, I can quit just like you when, say, Ive matured.

I never said that weed is adictive, I just can't with good reason accept that when my daughter is 14 she is smoking weed or drinking alcohol.

You can stop smoking whenever you want. No reason that you should or shouldn't anytime soon.

I wish I currently had the money to drive a Volvo. Besides I don't think any kid of mine will be playing soccer, But you will probably see me cruising the interstates of this great nation in a mini-van taking my kids to wrestling tourney's.

[MadtownPacker]

I cant believe I havent got in this thread yet. Great post Fosco, part of the reason why I would hate leaving my beloved Cali.

For all those buying tank's bullshit:

I posted a pic of my "stuff" on jso last season, called out tank's punk ass to show his and he shut the fuck up like the weak bitch he is. When I hit him up about it he said he was worried the FBI would come get him if he put a pic up (I know, what a fucking pussy). So when it comes to greens dont listen to his trick ass. If he gets shit Im sure it aint any good so he is not qualified to speak on this subject.

tank = studio smoker (fake)

[Partial]

I believe Tank just got called out...

[woodbuck27]

Here are some facts on the use of marijuana and cocaine and addiction:

M A R I J U A N A

** Marijuana - Marijuana is a green or gray mixture of dried, shredded flowers and leaves of the hemp plant Cannabis sativa. There are over 200 slang terms for marijuana including "pot," "herb," "weed," "boom," "Mary Jane," "gangster," and "chronic." It is usually smoked as a cigarette (called a joint or a nail)

** The short term effects of marijuana use include problems with memory and learning; distorted perception; difficulty in thinking and problem-solving; loss of coordination; and increased heart rate, anxiety, and panic attacks.

** Scientists have found that whether an individual has positive or negative sensations after smoking marijuana can be influenced by heredity.


Health Hazards

Effects of Marijuana on the Brain

Researchers have found that THC changes the way in which sensory information gets into and is processed by the hippocampus. The hippocampus is a component of the brain's limbic system that is crucial for learning, memory, and the integration of sensory experiences with emotions and motivations. Investigations have shown that neurons in the information processing system of the hippocampus and the activity of the nerve fibers in this region are suppressed by THC. In addition, researchers have discovered that learned behaviors, which depend on the hippocampus, also deteriorate via this mechanism.

Recent research findings also indicate that long-term use of marijuana produces changes in the brain similar to those seen after long-term use of other major drugs of abuse.

Effects on the Lungs

Someone who smokes marijuana regularly may have many of the same respiratory problems as tobacco smokers. These individuals may have daily cough and phlegm, symptoms of chronic bronchitis, and more frequent chest colds. Continuing to smoke marijuana can lead to abnormal functioning of lung tissue injured or destroyed by marijuana smoke.

Regardless of the THC content, the amount of tar inhaled by marijuana smokers and the level of carbon monoxide absorbed are three to five times greater than among tobacco smokers. This may be due to the marijuana users' inhaling more deeply and holding the smoke in the lungs and because marijuana smoke is unfiltered.

Effects on Heart Rate and Blood Pressure

Recent findings indicate that smoking marijuana while shooting up cocaine has the potential to cause severe increases in heart rate and blood pressure. In one study, experienced marijuana and cocaine users were given marijuana alone, cocaine alone, and then a combination of both. Each drug alone produced cardiovascular effects; when they were combined, the effects were greater and lasted longer. The heart rate of the subjects in the study increased 29 beats per minute with marijuana alone and 32 beats per minute with cocaine alone. When the drugs were given together, the heart rate increased by 49 beats per minute, and the increased rate persisted for a longer time. The drugs were given with the subjects sitting quietly. In normal circumstances, an individual may smoke marijuana and inject cocaine and then do something physically stressful that may significantly increase the risk of overloading the cardiovascular system.

Effects of Heavy Marijuana Use on Learning and Social Behavior

A study of college students has shown that critical skills related to attention, memory, and learning are impaired among people who use marijuana heavily, even after discontinuing its use for at least 24 hours. Researchers compared 65 "heavy users," who had smoked marijuana a median of 29 of the past 30 days, and 64 "light users," who had smoked a median of 1 of the past 30 days. After a closely monitored 19- to 24-hour period of abstinence from marijuana and other illicit drugs and alcohol, the undergraduates were given several standard tests measuring aspects of attention, memory, and learning. Compared to the light users, heavy marijuana users made more errors and had more difficulty sustaining attention, shifting attention to meet the demands of changes in the environment, and in registering, processing, and using information. These findings suggest that the greater impairment among heavy users is likely due to an alteration of brain activity produced by marijuana.

Longitudinal research on marijuana use among young people below college age indicates those who used marijuana have lower achievement than the non-users, more acceptance of deviant behavior, more delinquent behavior and aggression, greater rebelliousness, poorer relationships with parents, and more associations with delinquent and drug-using friends.

Research also shows more anger and more regressive behavior (thumb sucking, temper tantrums) in toddlers whose parents use marijuana than among the toddlers of non-using parents.

Effects on Pregnancy

Any drug of abuse can affect a mother's health during pregnancy, making it a time when expectant mothers should take special care of themselves. Drugs of abuse may interfere with proper nutrition and rest, which can affect good functioning of the immune system. Some studies have found that babies born to mothers who used marijuana during pregnancy were smaller than those born to mothers who did not use the drug. In general, smaller babies are more likely to develop health problems

A nursing mother who uses marijuana passes some of the THC to the baby in her breast milk. Research indicates that the use of marijuana by a mother during the first month of breast-feeding can impair the infant's motor development (control of muscle movement).

Addictive Potential

A drug is addicting if it causes compulsive, often uncontrollable drug craving, seeking, and use, even in the face of negative health and social consequences. Marijuana meets this criterion. More than 120,000 people enter treatment per year for their primary marijuana addiction. In addition, animal studies suggest marijuana causes physical dependence, and some people report withdrawal symptoms.

Extent of Use

Monitoring the Future Study (MTF)*

The NIDA-funded MTF provides an annual assessment of drug use among 12th, 10th, and 8th grade students and young adults nationwide. After decreasing for over a decade, marijuana use among students began to increase in the early 1990s. From 1998 to 1999, use of marijuana at least once (lifetime use) increased among 12th- and 10th-graders, continuing the trend seen in recent years. The seniors' rate of lifetime marijuana use is higher than any year since 1987, but all rates remain well below those seen in the late 1970s and early 1980s. Past year and past month marijuana use did not change significantly from 1998 to 1999 in any of the three grades, suggesting the sharp increases of recent years may be slowing. Daily marijuana use in the past month increased slightly among all three grades as well.

Teen arrests and marijuana

In six of the CEWG sites, juvenile arrestees testing positive for marijuana ranged from a low of 40.3 percent in St. Louis to a high of 63.7 percent in Phoenix. More than 50 percent of juvenile arrestees in Los Angeles, Denver, and Washington, D.C. tested positive for marijuana, and 48.9 percent in San Diego. Among all arrestees, Seattle was the only site where women were more likely than men (37.9 percent vs. 35.4 percent) to test positive for marijuana.

Marijauna Treatment and Addiction Treatment HELP LINE:

1 - 888 - 781- 7060


C O C A I N E and C R A C K

Crack and Cocaine - Cocaine is a powerfully addictive drug of abuse. Once having tried cocaine, an individual cannot predict or control the extent to which he or she will continue to use the drug.

The major routes of administration of cocaine are sniffing or snorting, injecting, and smoking (including free-base and crack cocaine). Snorting is the process of inhaling cocaine powder through the nose where it is absorbed into the bloodstream through the nasal tissues. Injecting is the act of using a needle to release the drug directly into the bloodstream. Smoking involves inhaling cocaine vapor or smoke into the lungs where absorption into the bloodstream is as rapid as by injection.


"Crack" is the street name given to cocaine that has been processed from cocaine hydrochloride to a free base for smoking. Rather than requiring the more volatile method of processing cocaine using ether, crack cocaine is processed with ammonia or sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) and water and heated to remove the hydrochloride, thus producing a form of cocaine that can be smoked. The term "crack" refers to the crackling sound heard when the mixture is smoked (heated), presumably from the sodium bicarbonate.


There is great risk whether cocaine is ingested by inhalation (snorting), injection, or smoking. It appears that compulsive cocaine use may develop even more rapidly if the substance is smoked rather than snorted. Smoking allows extremely high doses of cocaine to reach the brain very quickly and brings an intense and immediate high. The injecting drug user is at risk for transmitting or acquiring HIV infection/AIDS if needles or other injection equipment are shared.


Health Hazards

Cocaine is a strong central nervous system stimulant that interferes with the reabsorption process of dopamine, a chemical messenger associated with pleasure and movement. Dopamine is released as part of the brain's reward system and is involved in the high that characterizes cocaine consumption.

Physical effects of cocaine use include constricted peripheral blood vessels, dilated pupils, and increased temperature, heart rate, and blood pressure. The duration of cocaine's immediate euphoric effects, which include hyper-stimulation, reduced fatigue, and mental clarity, depends on the route of administration. The faster the absorption, the more intense the high. On the other hand, the faster the absorption, the shorter the duration of action. The high from snorting may last 15 to 30 minutes, while that from smoking may last 5 to 10 minutes. Increased use can reduce the period of stimulation.

Users of cocaine report feelings of restlessness, irritability, and anxiety. An appreciable tolerance to the high may be developed, and many addicts report that they seek but fail to achieve as much pleasure as they did from their first exposure. Scientific evidence suggests that the powerful neuropsychologic reinforcing property of cocaine is responsible for an individual's continued use, despite harmful physical and social consequences. In rare instances, sudden death can occur on the first use of cocaine or unexpectedly thereafter. However, there is no way to determine who is prone to sudden death.

High doses of cocaine and/or prolonged use can trigger paranoia. Smoking crack cocaine can produce a particularly aggressive paranoid behavior in users. When addicted individuals stop using cocaine, they often become depressed. This also may lead to further cocaine use to alleviate depression. Prolonged cocaine snorting can result in ulceration of the mucous membrane of the nose and can damage the nasal septum enough to cause it to collapse. Cocaine-related deaths are often a result of cardiac arrest or seizures followed by respiratory arrest.


Added Danger: Cocaethylene

When people mix cocaine and alcohol consumption, they are compounding the danger each drug poses and unknowingly forming a complex chemical experiment within their bodies. NIDA-funded researchers have found that the human liver combines cocaine and alcohol and manufactures a third substance, cocaethylene, that intensifies cocaine's euphoric effects, while possibly increasing the risk of sudden death.


Extent of Use

Monitoring the Future Study (MTF)

The MTF assesses the extent of drug use among adolescents and young adults across the country.

The proportion of high school seniors who have used cocaine at least once in their lifetimes has increased from a low of 5.9 percent in 1994 to 9.8 percent in 1999. However, this is lower than its peak of 17.3 percent in 1985. Current (past month) use of cocaine by seniors decreased from a high of 6.7 percent in 1985 to 2.6 percent in 1999. Also in 1999, 7.7 percent of 10th-graders had tried cocaine at least once, up from a low of 3.3 percent in 1992. The percentage of 8th-graders who had ever tried cocaine has increased from a low of 2.3 percent in 1991 to 4.7 percent in 1999.

Of college students 1 to 4 years beyond high school, in 1995, 3.6 percent had used cocaine within the past year, and 0.7 percent had used cocaine in the past month.


COCAINE Addiction and Treatment HELP LINE:

1 - 888 - 781 - 7060

[woodbuck27]

I voted:
Have a 1 on 1 talk and try to reason with them about the affects of smoking pot at their age.

PackerRat members, I have some experience on this topic. I've read this thread, and setting aside the personal attacks, it's an excellent topic to discuss, if not reach a moritorium on a conclusion on.

If you read my previous post it's loaded with - Stay away from marijuana and cocaine/crack, in effect to the evidence it supplies, regarding their health and addictive effects. We havn't even gone to the damage that alcohol serves to society, but sticking to the use of Mary Jane and cocaine here goes.

Personally I have used 'the J', and I actually am able to control it on the ocassional times I smoke up with close friends. I will not use it otherwise then in a close social context and certainly (not to be a hypocrite) do not condone it's use amongst the young. I havn't used in almost a year as I choose to do so only socially and in a safe environment. I respect OUR Laws and I have never purchased dope. I only smoke marijuana when I visit my friends and it's offered in Eastern Canada -'the Maritimes'.

While in University I hung out with fella's, 20 years younger than myself from 'the Miramichi, and all of them loved to party and smoke dope. These young lad's drove it hard, and today I can report that two of them came down to disaster.

One fella - named Peter, used to get so strung out, that dope was central to his being and although he did well in school. I found out that eventually all went for naught, as he failed in his Law Practise.

Another of those Lad's, Bob, used Hashish as often as he could get it, and he died of lung cancer - after alot of heart complications, at the young age of 27 year's. I love this fella alot and his death really hurt me. This was in all respects considered honestly, a really fine person. I often have wondered if his overuse of dope contributed to his early death? Bob was a really fine young man.

I often say. We are who we hang with, but what life really comes down to, to a greater extent is moderation in all things. It is one thing to have liberal views, but wiser to be tolerant and conservative in a general approach, to living one's life. To use common sense and treat your body as a temple. Sometimes I find myself failing at that, but I do know when enough - is just that.

I moved to Montreal from my beloved Maritimes in April of last year. I have experienced tragedy and pain as a result, seeing how my Lady's daughter and grandson are getting on.

The daughter is trying to recover from addictions of alcohol and cocaine. She still has a crack head Ex boyfriend that stalks her, to gain a place to use crack and booze, till he smokes so much that he can't even recall his own name . He is the most paranoid person I have ever come across, and still he manages to try to control all around him. He has become 'the Devil' a very scary Dude.

This idiot affords his habit, at the expence of people that he steals from or otherwise rips off. He is referred to as a professional Jacker. He's dam prowd of his ability to steal, even though he has to move from time to time, as all business establishments in his current neighborhood are on the outlook for him. He has a rap sheet as long as your arm as well, but nothing can stop his need to use CRACK. One of the most highly addictive drugs readibly available, and one drug that can hook you on a first time useage basis. Anyone who would use crack has alot more trouble then what they previosly had. It's pure poison.

The grandson now 18 year's old,has been delinquent since he was 13, and today is living with Pat and I, on a conditional release from jail. Up on serious charges, of two X grand theft auto with a knife and mask, in the same evening. He was arrested with a 17 year old in possession of a stolen vehicle. The second one they succeeded in ripping off that night, because he felt. . . it was his right to 'just take - what wasn't his'. A senseless and stupidly selfish attitude.

This young fella is in shit up to his nose, and he has been given the privalege of not having to stay in jail, till his trial date set for JULY 14. I and his grandmother house, feed and generally care for him, and worry ourselves sick over his attitudes and behaviour. He continually breaks his conditions.

Like many who are are on the wrong side of the LAW, he comes from a broken home and he has always been a problem. In my view that isn't any defence for him today. Sorry about your BAD luck young man but let's deal with today.PLEASE.

He lives with his Grandmother and with me ( not his blood ) so you may get the picture.The undo stress this presents me, is out of sight difficult and I contributed 'dick all', to what he is today. Still I try to remain strong and loving. I'm trying to help him get to a better tomorrow. I'm not naive as this fella has serious issue's that demand sound psychological counseling. My experience and in that, limited wisdom is my only tool, and he will never fully respect that.

Last week I accidently discovered in his clothes, some marijuana bud and I had to (with his grandmother's support after a push on my part) - step on him. One of his conditions is to stay away from alcohol and dope/drugs. To find that shit in his possession with all he is facing was extremely trying or difficult for us. To him and his girlfriend it's no big deal. Holy Mackeral! This is the general attitude of the young and ignorant user of drugs.

How can it be right or OK for some of us on some ocassions to use dope and not for other's, is a matter of simple common sense. They are now saying that the teenage mind is still in a maturing or developmental stage. That teens are not to be expected to think as adults should. Does this make it any easier for me to deal with this young man? NO ! It's difficult, yet I hold onto this.

We have to do all we can to talk to and guide him and use OUR skills and knowledge within the LAW to protect him. That is today but what of tomorrow? We know that he is likely headed for a really tough time down the road once he must answer to his crimes. We wonder what a potential spell in the Pen will really do to help him get on track? He is now out of control and still we LOVE him and do OUR level best, not knowing what challenge awaits us.

Our trial is a daily one, as we offer him a HOME and a real break, and his behaviour slams us almost daily - in the face. His trial is on the 14th July and thereafter.

[Scott Campbell]

Damn, that's a sad story Woody. I hope things work out.

One of the difficult things about drugs and alchohol is that you don't really know if you have an addictive personality until after your addicted. Those who abstain need not worry.

[woodbuck27]

Damn, that's a sad story Woody. I hope things work out.

One of the difficult things about drugs and alchohol is that you don't really know if you have an addictive personality until after your addicted. Those who abstain need not worry.

Scott I could not possibly express in writing just how really sad this situation here is. Thanks for the kindness.

I have come to realize, that for alot of us. LIFE grants us ONE solid chance, and if you screw up, it's way over the top too difficult to engineer a recovery.

It really sadden's me to see a young person, flush that one chance down the toilet, and have such a rotten attitude, yet ,think he has the world by the tail.

Failed marriages really put a strain on society as far as contributing to delinquency and a recidevist crime rate, once the system punishes the offender with the burden of jail time. It becomes their school of higher learning, and how to violate innocent people more efficiently. Lock em up and they get stupid-smarter. Get better at crime. It's way too hard to even put them away for a proper punishment also and criminals know that and take advantage.

I am studying the impact of gangs in urban life, largely because of the drug culture there. Specifically related to Jamaican gangs so prevalent in Toronto, and the large problem or increase of gun crime and gun related murders.

My country allows single Mother's from Jamaica into Canada to take low paying jobs and they arrive here with two - three children, and no father influence and turn to a gang style life. The crime rate in Jamaica is out of sight compared to the rate in North America. Check it out.

There are now as recorded, a total of at least 77 gangs, alot of them Jamaican, that are tearing up the Urban districts and killing innocent people. Some politicians want to blame it on these gangs getting easy access to guns from the United States, but that is BS. It's really a mater of overhauling OUR immigration policies. A matter of better family intervention and social programs amongst the poorer class.It's a huge matter of getting the dam drugs off the streets, and the Police and Legal Establishment not concerning themselves so much, with taking down the Big Guys. If you see balls - 'kick em in the balls' - worry about the knock out punch after that.

It's so sad that we are experiencing innocents and potentially productive people being gunned down by gang thugs, competeing for the rights to shop at a downtown Toronto sporting goods store.

I'm specifically referring to the shooting of 15 year old High School student Jane Creba, while she shopped with her Family on Young St. in T.O. this past Boxing day (Dec.26) and got killed in the crossfire between rival gangs shooting at one another. It wasn't long ago the Toronto was considered one of the safest large City's in North America. The gangs are holding it's citizens hostage now, and gangs in T.O. is a major concern.

It's too easy for young people who want to use drugs, to go to dealing them on some small scale and soon expand and need the protection they assume falsely they get by operating in a gang.

One leads to two, leads to three and destruction ensue's.

[MadtownPacker]

Thats too bad Woody. I agree that true drugs like cocaine and meth are extremely destructive and dont know many that have gotten away from it's grasp. I dont agree that weed is a gateway drug cuz the same can be said of alcohol or chocolate chip cookies. Anything is addicting if you dont have the will power to control it. I hope your family members get better.

[Deputy Nutz]

Woody, you just killed my buzz.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Woody, you just killed my buzz.

WTF? I thought you quit. Whatever happens to setting an example for your daughter. One day she's going to say that her dady smokes pot, and she will use that as an excuse for smoking it herself.

[Deputy Nutz]

Woody, you just killed my buzz.

WTF? I thought you quit. Whatever happens to setting an example for your daughter. One day she's going to say that her dady smokes pot, and she will use that as an excuse for smoking it herself.

I never said that I quit. Besides using me as an excuse is better than using her friends as an excuse. Make her think for herself.

Besides I ain't high, and I ain't even had a drink tonight.

Trust me Tank, I am out there, and I am loving every minute of it!