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What is it that makes you whatever you are?

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  • What is it that makes you whatever you are?

    All of us fancy ourselves as fair-minded and objective. I certainly do. Yet, I react to political ads, news and commentary with an undeniable "body English." That is, when confronted with a new piece of information, I feel myself twisting, wanting that news item to conform to my currently held point of view. When it does, I feel satisfied and smug. When it doesn't, I want to reject the news item as fabricated or the source as unreliable or I want to rationalize the new information as irrelevant to my point of view. I assume we all do this. The question is WHY?

    What is that fundamental, core belief that causes you to hold one political point of view rather than another? That causes you to be a "liberal" rather than a "conservative" or vice versa? That causes you to "lean" with your body English toward Obama rather than McCain or vice versa?

    I say "political" point of view, because I don't necessarily want to start philosophical arguments here. Politics and elections have to do with how we conduct ourselves in society, how we feel we should live and interact together with one another, not how we should live our own lives as individuals according to some lofty philosophical or religious truth.

    I think the fundamental, core belief that causes me to lean toward the conservative or libertarian point of view in social matters is my more or less pragmatic belief that a firm concept of private property will facilitate a more or less conflict-free social climate. It seems to me that if a society is based on the pretty black and white principle that what's mine is mine and what's yours is yours, then that society will have more peace and less conflict. If the line between what is mine and what is yours is fuzzy or up for grabs, then I think that society will be doomed to conflict and contentiousness.

    Unfortunately, there are very few politicians who hold my view. In an election I'm forced to choose the one who will draw that private property line as sharply as possible. This means I generally am sympathetic to and vote for Republicans (or Libertarians) rather than Democrats. It means I get very passionate against a particular Democrat who defines private property in such a fuzzy way that he thinks my wealth, my private property, should be taken from me and given to someone else who is, supposedly, more deserving of it than I am. It explains my body English when I'm reading a story about a politician I like (Sarah Palin, for example) that implies this politician might not be all I want her to be with regard to her stance on strict private property rights.

    Obviously, all voters are not motivated by a fundamental belief that society would work better if rights of private property were strictly enforced and adhered to. So I'm curious. What fundamental political belief causes a person to lean toward Obama or the Democrats or the "liberal" position?

    Is it a belief that society will run much more smoothly if it is based on the principle that "I am my brother's keeper?" Is it a belief that a society will be more peaceful if it is based on some specifically defined idea of fairness? Or justice? Or even religious principle?

    I really don't know and would really like to know. Any thoughts?
    One time Lombardi was disgusted with the team in practice and told them they were going to have to start with the basics. He held up a ball and said: "This is a football." McGee immediately called out, "Stop, coach, you're going too fast," and that gave everyone a laugh.
    John Maxymuk, Packers By The Numbers

  • #2
    Anecdotally, and I don’t want to speak for the Left (in fact, this is a great question…it gets to the crux of the matter; why do you think the way you do?), but a lot of intelligent people I know, who when pressed, think Conservative or Libertarian, would never be caught dead hanging with the “uncool kids’……………Conservatives.

    Also, it’s not only Private “property”……but also Private “thinking.” As a Conservative, I don’t want to be told what to do. I think the Left needs the “elite” to tell them how to think. Thus they will NEVER see what you are talking about in your other tread.
    After lunch the players lounged about the hotel patio watching the surf fling white plumes high against the darkening sky. Clouds were piling up in the west… Vince Lombardi frowned.

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    • #3
      More than anything, it's the fact that I think government should be small and limited. A government that entrusts in the individual. It's up to the individual to be responsible with this enormous gift. That doesn't mean ignoring those that truly can't help for themselves, but too many people take advantage of more socialistic government. It just doesn't work. What you get is an inefficient, overbearing government that creates citizens that are lazy and are less motivated to invent and produce.
      "There's a lot of interest in the draft. It's great. But quite frankly, most of the people that are commenting on it don't know anything about what they are talking about."--Ted Thompson

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by HowardRoark
        Anecdotally, and I don’t want to speak for the Left (in fact, this is a great question…it gets to the crux of the matter; why do you think the way you do?), but a lot of intelligent people I know, who when pressed, think Conservative or Libertarian, would never be caught dead hanging with the “uncool kids’……………Conservatives.

        Also, it’s not only Private “property”……but also Private “thinking.” As a Conservative, I don’t want to be told what to do. I think the Left needs the “elite” to tell them how to think. Thus they will NEVER see what you are talking about in your other tread.
        What BS....the "left" needs the elite to tell them what to do? I'm as left as they come on most issues and I'll tell the "Elite" to fuck themselves...whether its Hussein, Mac, Bush or Palin for that matter...she's acting pretty "Elite" now as far as I'm concerned.
        C.H.U.D.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Freak Out
          Originally posted by HowardRoark
          Anecdotally, and I don’t want to speak for the Left (in fact, this is a great question…it gets to the crux of the matter; why do you think the way you do?), but a lot of intelligent people I know, who when pressed, think Conservative or Libertarian, would never be caught dead hanging with the “uncool kids’……………Conservatives.

          Also, it’s not only Private “property”……but also Private “thinking.” As a Conservative, I don’t want to be told what to do. I think the Left needs the “elite” to tell them how to think. Thus they will NEVER see what you are talking about in your other tread.
          What BS....the "left" needs the elite to tell them what to do? I'm as left as they come on most issues and I'll tell the "Elite" to fuck themselves...whether its Hussein, Mac, Bush or Palin for that matter...she's acting pretty "Elite" now as far as I'm concerned.
          You have always come across as a Libertarian to me. I could be wrong.
          After lunch the players lounged about the hotel patio watching the surf fling white plumes high against the darkening sky. Clouds were piling up in the west… Vince Lombardi frowned.

          Comment


          • #6
            I'd say my 10" shlong is at the core of my identity.

            Comment


            • #7
              e pluribus unum

              liberty

              In God we trust
              "Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: What is it that makes you whatever you are?

                Originally posted by Maxie the Taxi
                I think the fundamental, core belief that causes me to lean toward the conservative or libertarian point of view in social matters is my more or less pragmatic belief that a firm concept of private property will facilitate a more or less conflict-free social climate. It seems to me that if a society is based on the pretty black and white principle that what's mine is mine and what's yours is yours, then that society will have more peace and less conflict.
                I don't think history supports your theory. Greed leads to too much injustice and inequality, not stability. We tried your method in the 19th century, and the gilded age.

                I'd say the core value that makes me a liberal is pretty much the opposite of your view. I am all for freedom and property rights, but a totally free market leads to hellish conditions for most of the population. Like back in the days of lords and serfs.

                But I'm not really all that liberal. I'm comfortable with McCain. And I am pro-business.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by mraynrand

                  In God we trust
                  Most Gods have proven to be pretty untrustworthy over the ages.
                  C.H.U.D.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Freak Out
                    Originally posted by mraynrand

                    In God we trust
                    Most Gods have proven to be pretty untrustworthy over the ages.
                    Really? On what do you base your claim? Is it possibly that the people who believe in certain gods have been the ones in the wrong. Also, if there is but one God, perhaps it is people believing in false gods who have been untrustworthy.
                    "Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: What is it that makes you whatever you are?

                      Originally posted by Harlan Huckleby
                      I am all for freedom and property rights, but a totally free market leads to hellish conditions for most of the population. Like back in the days of lords and serfs.
                      That was a free market?
                      "Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: What is it that makes you whatever you are?

                        Originally posted by mraynrand
                        Originally posted by Harlan Huckleby
                        I am all for freedom and property rights, but a totally free market leads to hellish conditions for most of the population. Like back in the days of lords and serfs.
                        That was a free market?

                        There weren't a lot of protections for the workers, they were at the mercy of the property owners.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: What is it that makes you whatever you are?

                          Originally posted by Harlan Huckleby
                          Originally posted by mraynrand
                          Originally posted by Harlan Huckleby
                          I am all for freedom and property rights, but a totally free market leads to hellish conditions for most of the population. Like back in the days of lords and serfs.
                          That was a free market?

                          There weren't a lot of protections for the workers, they were at the mercy of the property owners.
                          in other words, they weren't free, were they? So it wasn't really a free market for everyone was it?
                          "Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Good thought provoking post, Maxie. I, too, really doubt that you're gonna get any/many serious responses from forum leftists--just as I didn't long ago when I tried to draw them out about positions and views. In their hearts, they KNOW how wrong and out of tune they are, and they run and hide accordingly, occasionally coming out from under their rocks only for brief bursts of sarcasm and/or hate.

                            As for the ELITISM thing, I think it is less accurate to say they want the Elite to tell them what to do as to say they ARE the Elite, and they want to tell others what to do--especially looking down on those of us who practice traditional American, Christian, and free enterprise views and values. A lot of those who VOTE for their side may want to be told how to live by the Elites, but the leaders and ranters of their side ARE the Elites--especially in their own minds.

                            Now to answer the original question:

                            The heart and soul of everything I think/feel/say is AMERICA--AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM--call it what it is, AMERICAN SUPERIORITY.

                            I just think it is slam-dunk obvious that this is the greatest country in the history of the world by any rational standard you can name.

                            Different Americans might have different ideas as to the order of importance of these, but ALL are indisputably true: We are the FREEST most PROSPEROUS most POWERFUL most COMPASSIONATE nation in the world--nation being definable as either the country in general or the PEOPLE of that country.

                            Any THREAT to that status and position of America, therefore, becomes THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE. And, of course, the TOP TWO of those are: Terrorism against America--which could potentially CHANGE everything--there's that ugly word again--CHANGE, and the Economy--which rises and falls in inverse proportion to taxes.

                            So many people dwell on LESSER issues, which ultimately do NOT affect our lives and lifestyles one iota.
                            What could be more GOOD and NORMAL and AMERICAN than Packer Football?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              texas,

                              I appreciate your point of view. In the end it's not a whole lot different than mine.

                              I hope you're wrong about getting responses from forum membes with different points of view. As to "elitism", I refuse to speculate on what motivates people. I'd rather they'd just tell me so I can understand and figure out a way to live together without this constant political vitriol.
                              One time Lombardi was disgusted with the team in practice and told them they were going to have to start with the basics. He held up a ball and said: "This is a football." McGee immediately called out, "Stop, coach, you're going too fast," and that gave everyone a laugh.
                              John Maxymuk, Packers By The Numbers

                              Comment

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