WHAT IF NO "BAIL OUT" GETS PASSED?

[texaspackerbacker]

Tainted spuds can't be exactly the same as what's going on because there is at least some intrinsic value in the homes that exist.

BTW, Newt doesn't like the bailout, and suggests some alternatives to it.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,426221,00.html

I made it up on the fly, the triggering event is rather arcane and hard to duplicate in a spud analogy.

Let’s say by some magic, some real smart guys are able to start selling the spuds without ever owning them, thus forcing all the other store sellers to drop their prices…….and you, as well as everyone else decides that real mashed potatoes are the way to go. Nobody wants to buy the Instant ones anymore. The Instant Potatoes are perfectly fine.

What is the value of box of Instant Spuds?

This example, also, fails to acknowledge the concept of intrinsic value of real estate--or Instant Mashed Potatoes.

[HowardRoark]

Tainted spuds can't be exactly the same as what's going on because there is at least some intrinsic value in the homes that exist.

BTW, Newt doesn't like the bailout, and suggests some alternatives to it.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,426221,00.html

I made it up on the fly, the triggering event is rather arcane and hard to duplicate in a spud analogy.

Let’s say by some magic, some real smart guys are able to start selling the spuds without ever owning them, thus forcing all the other store sellers to drop their prices…….and you, as well as everyone else decides that real mashed potatoes are the way to go. Nobody wants to buy the Instant ones anymore. The Instant Potatoes are perfectly fine.

What is the value of box of Instant Spuds?

This example, also, fails to acknowledge the concept of intrinsic value of real estate--or Instant Mashed Potatoes.

THAT IS THE POINT!!!!!!!! THERE ARE TWO VALUES, BUT ONLY ONE MATTERS.

[Freak Out]

WaMu seized....who said they had a mortgage through them? Looks like it's been sold off along with some other items...J.P Morgan Chase bought up a load of stuff at fire sale prices. What a goat fuck.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Dear American:

I need to ask you to support an urgent secret business relationship with a transfer of funds of great magnitude.

I am Ministry of the Treasury of the Republic of America. My country has had crisis that has caused the need for large transfer of funds of 800 billion dollars US. If you would assist me in this transfer, it would be most profitable to you.

I am working with Mr. Phil Gram, lobbyist for UBS, who will be my replacement as Ministry of the Treasury in January. As a Senator, you may know him as the leader of the American banking deregulation movement in the 1990s. This transactin is 100% safe.

This is a matter of great urgency. We need a blank check. We need the funds as quickly as possible. We cannot directly transfer these funds in the names of our close friends because we are constantly under surveillance. My family lawyer advised me that I should look for a reliable and trustworthy person who will act as a next of kin so the funds can be transferred.

Please reply with all of your bank account, IRA and college fund account numbers and those of your children and grandchildren to wallstreetbailout@treasury.gov so that we may transfer your commission for this transaction. After I receive that information, I will respond with detailed information about safeguards that will be used to protect the funds.

Yours Faithfully Minister of Treasury Paulson

[Freak Out]

Nigeria Calling!

[texaspackerbacker]

Tainted spuds can't be exactly the same as what's going on because there is at least some intrinsic value in the homes that exist.

BTW, Newt doesn't like the bailout, and suggests some alternatives to it.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,426221,00.html

I made it up on the fly, the triggering event is rather arcane and hard to duplicate in a spud analogy.

Let’s say by some magic, some real smart guys are able to start selling the spuds without ever owning them, thus forcing all the other store sellers to drop their prices…….and you, as well as everyone else decides that real mashed potatoes are the way to go. Nobody wants to buy the Instant ones anymore. The Instant Potatoes are perfectly fine.

What is the value of box of Instant Spuds?

This example, also, fails to acknowledge the concept of intrinsic value of real estate--or Instant Mashed Potatoes.

THAT IS THE POINT!!!!!!!! THERE ARE TWO VALUES, BUT ONLY ONE MATTERS.

yes, Howard. That is THE POINT!!! Even the lesser of these two values is a far cry from "worthless". And there is such a tiny tiny amount of bad apples that it is beyond common sense that they could ruin any significant portion of the barrels--these clusters of mortgages. Yet we are being told that so many of these mortgage securities are "bad assets" that the "bail out" is needed. How is that NOT ludicrous?

[HowardRoark]

That is THE POINT!!! Even the lesser of these two values is a far cry from "worthless". And there is such a tiny tiny amount of bad apples that it is beyond common sense that they could ruin any significant portion of the barrels--these clusters of mortgages. Yet we are being told that so many of these mortgage securities are "bad assets" that the "bail out" is needed. How is that NOT ludicrous?

It is ludicrous.

[texaspackerbacker]

That is THE POINT!!! Even the lesser of these two values is a far cry from "worthless". And there is such a tiny tiny amount of bad apples that it is beyond common sense that they could ruin any significant portion of the barrels--these clusters of mortgages. Yet we are being told that so many of these mortgage securities are "bad assets" that the "bail out" is needed. How is that NOT ludicrous?

It is ludicrous.

Then what are we arguing about? Are you saying you agree, the idea of the so-called "crisis" in real estate and the miniscule percentage of defaults and foreclosures of property still having value is NOT sufficient to justify all the crap being spewed by the Washington and Wall Street elite to try and justify this "bail out"? I hope you agree, but somehow, I doubt it.

[HowardRoark]

That is THE POINT!!! Even the lesser of these two values is a far cry from "worthless". And there is such a tiny tiny amount of bad apples that it is beyond common sense that they could ruin any significant portion of the barrels--these clusters of mortgages. Yet we are being told that so many of these mortgage securities are "bad assets" that the "bail out" is needed. How is that NOT ludicrous?

It is ludicrous.

Then what are we arguing about? Are you saying you agree, the idea of the so-called "crisis" in real estate and the miniscule percentage of defaults and foreclosures of property still having value is NOT sufficient to justify all the crap being spewed by the Washington and Wall Street elite to try and justify this "bail out"? I hope you agree, but somehow, I doubt it.

I give up.

[texaspackerbacker]

That is THE POINT!!! Even the lesser of these two values is a far cry from "worthless". And there is such a tiny tiny amount of bad apples that it is beyond common sense that they could ruin any significant portion of the barrels--these clusters of mortgages. Yet we are being told that so many of these mortgage securities are "bad assets" that the "bail out" is needed. How is that NOT ludicrous?

It is ludicrous.

Then what are we arguing about? Are you saying you agree, the idea of the so-called "crisis" in real estate and the miniscule percentage of defaults and foreclosures of property still having value is NOT sufficient to justify all the crap being spewed by the Washington and Wall Street elite to try and justify this "bail out"? I hope you agree, but somehow, I doubt it.

I give up.

You should!

[Harlan Huckleby]

Tex, the next time you get an urge to make a poll, contact me first and seek my guidance. Your wording creates more heat than light.

There are three options:
1) act quickly, largely accepting what has been proposed.
2) proceed deliberately, form a strategy in the coming weeks.
3) do nothing

you presented a false choice.

Some Republicans are pushing the 2nd option, they want to find an approach where the government doesn't directly take-over ownership of outstanding loans.

[HowardRoark]

That is THE POINT!!! Even the lesser of these two values is a far cry from "worthless". And there is such a tiny tiny amount of bad apples that it is beyond common sense that they could ruin any significant portion of the barrels--these clusters of mortgages. Yet we are being told that so many of these mortgage securities are "bad assets" that the "bail out" is needed. How is that NOT ludicrous?

It is ludicrous.

Then what are we arguing about? Are you saying you agree, the idea of the so-called "crisis" in real estate and the miniscule percentage of defaults and foreclosures of property still having value is NOT sufficient to justify all the crap being spewed by the Washington and Wall Street elite to try and justify this "bail out"? I hope you agree, but somehow, I doubt it.

I give up.

You should!

Maybe I'll try to put it in comic book format.

http://docs.google.com/TeamPresent?revision=_latest&fs=true&docID=ddv7hj34_03774hsc7&skipauth=true

[Maxie the Taxi]

Harlan, I like your poll questions better. I vote "Do nothing."

Here's a sample of a real poll of what Americans think:

September 23, 2008

The American People's Thoughts on the Economic Crisis


cross-posted at www.SolutionsDay2008.com

We just finished a polling briefing with Speaker Gingrich, Republican Pollster Kellyanne Conway, and Democratic Pollster Doug Schoen on the economy, energy, education, and health. The full results of the poll will be released on Solutions Day this Saturday, but we wanted to share a few of the fascinating results that pertain to the economy and potential Wall Street bailout.

The survey of 1,000 likely voters nationwide was fielded from September 16 to 21 during the time the $700 billion bailout was first proposed.

This weekend, Speaker Gingrich wrote about a "Recipe for Sound Economic Growth." Here is a sample of what the American people think about the economy. (Download PDF)

1. Which of the following do you consider the most critical issue facing America right now, meaning the one that is most important for the government to address or take action on?

47% THE ECONOMY AND JOB CREATION
8% THE WAR IN IRAQ
8% NATIONAL SECURITY/TERRORISM
6% HEALTH CARE
5% GOVERNMENT SPENDING
5% GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS LIKE SOCIAL SECURITY, MEDICARE, AND MEDICAID
4% ENERGY PRICES AND AVAILABILITY
2% TAXES
2% THE ENVIRONMENT
2% EDUCATION
2% ABORTION
2% IMMIGRATION


2. Who or what do you believe is most responsible for the current state of the U.S. economy?

44% THE FEDERAL AND STATE GOVERNMENTS - BY NOT LOWERING TAXES, INCREASING GOVERNMENT SPENDING, AND GROWING THE NATIONAL DEBT

22% AMERICAN CITIZENS - BY BEING IRRESPONSIBLE WITH THEIR CREDIT, SPENDING TOO MUCH ON LUXURIES AND NOT NECESSITIES, AND SPENDING BEYOND THEIR MEANS

11% THE FEDERAL RESERVE BANK - BY SETTING WEAK FISCAL AND MONETARY POLICY

10% PRIVATE COMPANIES - BY FIRING WORKERS AND NOT KEEPING THE PRICES OF THEIR GOODS UNDER CONTROL


3. When a company faces a potential failure due to poor internal mismanagement, which of the following do you think would be the best solution?

68% BANKRUPTCY FOR THE COMPANY, EVEN IF IT MEANS INVESTORS LOSE MONEY AND THERE IS HARM TO THE STOCK MARKET

19% GOVERNMENT SHOULD STEP IN AND SUPPORT THE COMPANIES WITH TAXPAYER DOLLARS TO AVOID BANKRUPTCY AND PROTECT THE MONEY OF INVESTORS

4. As you may have heard, the federal government recently took over Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, two of the nation's largest mortgage companies. Combined, these two companies guarantee about 40% of U.S. home loan debt and have backed approximately up to 70% of mortgages in recent months. In essence, the two companies are now under government ownership and control. This move is estimated to cost taxpayers nearly $25 billion. It is predicted that by taking over these mortgage firms, national and international markets stabilized and the housing and credit crises were minimized. Do you support or oppose the federal takeover of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae?

52% TOTAL SUPPORT (NET)
22% STRONGLY SUPPORT
30% SOMEWHAT SUPPORT

38% TOTAL OPPOSE (NET)
14% SOMEWHAT OPPOSE
24% STRONGLY OPPOSE

Register for Solutions Day and join us for this solutions-oriented dialogue on the economy, energy, education, and health.

from Big Solutions website (http://www.americansolutions.com/Blog/)

[LL2]

I will say the entire situation is down right scary! We can argue this from every angle possible, but if nothing gets done what good does that do.

I'm a McCain supporter, but I'm a little pissed at him right now. Most here wouldn't criticize their beloved candidate no matter what. I thought it was a good idea at first for McCain to go to DC to try to help get something done. Getting this mess straightened out is more important than a debate. He has a track record for pulling the republicans together and get them to support a deal. It seems the House republicans are not supporting Bush or McCain. The thing that I'm critical about is that McCain goes to DC just to sit at a table with Bush and others to just twiddle his thumbs? Maybe he is doing and saying more behind other closed door meetings, but the impression he is giving people is that he has contributed nothing or said nothing. If he was going to go to DC to just observe he should've stayed on the campaign trail. This is back firing on him. I hope I'm wrong, and if others have info to support the contrary write it out.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

That is THE POINT!!! Even the lesser of these two values is a far cry from "worthless". And there is such a tiny tiny amount of bad apples that it is beyond common sense that they could ruin any significant portion of the barrels--these clusters of mortgages. Yet we are being told that so many of these mortgage securities are "bad assets" that the "bail out" is needed. How is that NOT ludicrous?

It is ludicrous.

In the kingdom of the blind, Ty is KING!!!!