The Official 1st Presidential Debate Thread

[Freak Out]

Mac proved he is unfit to lead...before the debate.

[falco]

CNN is in denial.

The debates were major factors in both 2000 and 2004 when people had a chance to compare the extreme leftist crap spewed by Gore and Kerry, compared with the normalcy, decency, and pro-American agenda of Bush.

While I think McCain clearly outperformed Obama in the debate, Obama was playing "defense", and thus, not blown out completely. Wait 'til the next one when Obama starts exuding arrogance and elitism as he puts his agenda of social programs on display for America. That was Gore and Kerry's downfall--ASSUMING that the people would buy (literally) the left wing garbage. That same assumption will bite Obama in the ass as it did Gore and Kerry.

The worries: That maybe Obama will adopt the Bill Clinton model of NOT showing his true colors (no pun intended) until after the election. Also, that maybe McCain will not do enough to draw a distinction between Obama's crap and McCain's normalcy and restraint on spending.

tex, I agree with you that it will be important to obama not to come off as elitist - that was definitely john kerry's biggest downfall. however, he's not running against bush - mccain doesn't have that same average joe factor. however, I think mccain wins everytime he plays up the POW/veteran card, which is a shame because I don't think Kerry got the kudos he deserved for that.

i'm looking forward to the rest of the debates, especially VP. neither candidate is easy to get excited about

[packinpatland]

What a shame he (McCain) can't get his facts straight.

According to the National Archives, late on the afternoon of June 5, 1944,
Eisenhower scribbled a note intended for release accepting responsibility for
the decision to launch the invasion and taking full blame in the event the
effort to create a beachhead on the Normandy coast failed.

In the letter, Eisenhower takes responsibility but makes no mention of
resignation

Joe Biden said yesterday that FDR went on TV in 1929 to calm the nation after the stock market crash.

The stock market crashed in 1932, Herbert Hoover was president, and TV had not been invented yet.

Who cares about these gaffs?

It is only the small-minded, petty people who get excited about McCain conflating "takes full blame" with "resigns". It probably has been repeated that he offered to resign in popular mythology.

Eisenhower (June 5, 1944)
"Our landings in the Cherbourg-Havre area have failed to gain a satsifactory foothold and I have withdrawn the tropps. My decision to attack at this time and place was based on the best information available. The troops, the air and the Navy did all that bravery and devotion to duty could do. If any blame or fault attaches to the attempt it is mine alone"

No mention of quitting the Army, or his command.

Where Biden simply got his history wrong. McCain tried to give us a false interpretation.

[Harlan Huckleby]

BTW, how do you know that statement by Eisenhower is what McCain was referring to?

You dismiss Biden's gaff as a harmless mistake, but McCain is treacherous.

[SkinBasket]

Where Biden simply got his history wrong. McCain tried to give us a false interpretation.

The deep end is now long long gone.

[GrnBay007]

GB007, how would you define a "strong" response on the economy? What would you have liked either or both to have said?

I don't know....maybe just a tiny bit of optimism.

[The Shadow]

It was almost startling to see how much more presidential McCain looked than Barry.
Master vs Grasshopper.

[BallHawk]

It was almost startling to see how much more presidential McCain looked than Barry.
Master vs Grasshopper.

You think the guy that looked down all the time and refused to look at his opponent is presidential?

Great. I can't wait 'til he has to be diplomatic with foreign leaders. That is if he even knows what diplomacy is.

[retailguy]

the debate really sucked IMHO

neither candidate swayed me either way - mccain looked old and obama prattled on ... he needs to get away from that whole john kerry "nuanced" thing because it doesn't sell to the public

disclaimer - i only watch parts, so i'm basing this on what i saw

I think you nailed it Falco. I watched the entire debate, and came away with the same opinion I went into it with.

If you read this entire thread, not one persons mind was changed or swayed.

Non-event.

[retailguy]

Where Biden simply got his history wrong. McCain tried to give us a false interpretation.

If you can't read this, PIP and see your bias, then I feel badly for you.

If I were to rephrase and say biden tried to give false interpretation and mccain just got his history wrong, what would be the difference? Keep looking for "sinister intent"...

Meanwhile, I believe Joe Biden. Yes, I do. Hillary would have been a much better choice.

[packinpatland]

BTW, how do you know that statement by Eisenhower is what McCain was referring to?

You dismiss Biden's gaff as a harmless mistake, but McCain is treacherous.

The quote I took directly from Eisenhower's letter.......not a statement......
And I didn't use the word 'treacherous'.......I said 'false interpretation'.

According to the National Archives, late on the afternoon of June 5, 1944,
Eisenhower scribbled a note intended for release accepting responsibility for
the decision to launch the invasion and taking full blame in the event the
effort to create a beachhead on the Normandy coast failed.

In the letter, Eisenhower takes responsibility but makes no mention of
resignation

[HowardRoark]

Eisenhower (June 5, 1944)
"Our landings in the Cherbourg-Havre area have failed to gain a satsifactory foothold and I have withdrawn the tropps. My decision to attack at this time and place was based on the best information available. The troops, the air and the Navy did all that bravery and devotion to duty could do. If any blame or fault attaches to the attempt it is mine alone"

No mention of quitting the Army, or his command.

Where Biden simply got his history wrong. McCain tried to give us a false interpretation.

OK, you win. McCain told a story about how Eisenhower would take the blame for failure and quit.....he really only would take all the blame publicly.

But that really misses the entire point of what John mcCain was saying last night, right? You know the POINT he was trying to make.

But yes, in a parsing contest, you win.

As long as we are parsing, exactly how well does Barack know a known terrorist? Are they just neighbors, or do they know each other a little better? Or is it maybe even more thatn a little better.

I will let you win the little battle of "Eisenhower Letters".......I just don't think that is a strategy (or tactic) that you Lefties want to pursue.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I watched the debate from start to finish.

Obama came across better on the economy. Mac failed to impress on how terrible things are, which was crucial in order to justify his suspending the campaign and returning to D.C. Otherwise it is just a political stunt.

Mac came across better on foreign policy, but not by much.

I have to agree with Krauthammer. The election is a referendum on Obama, and therefore a tie in the debate goes to Obama.

Independents clearly weren't won by Mac at this debate.

Since this debate was supposed to be about Foreign policy...Mac shoulda won convincingly, but preempting that with the economy did him no favors.

And, hectoring Obama about strategy vs. tactics..didn't come off well. Since anybody with a brain realizes that the surge was tactic designed to bring about a strategy of the mandated Iraq free elections, etc...that clearly haven't been met.

I really wish Obama woulda continued when the talk was of nuke power and he said arizona and was cut off. I think that he was going to ask about Mac having waste in the state. That woulda been great.

As for meat and potatoes of the debate...i would agree...we need more specifics. But, neither is gonna do that witht the economy and the bill still being written. And, nobody is gonna tell you what they are gonna cut. That is political suicide.

BTW, if things went so well..why was Dick Morris screeching that the Repubs nominated the wrong guy.

[Partial]

I am perplexed as to how one can think Obama even sounded decent last night. McCain definitely spoke better, and Obama sounded like he made it through all those great schools as a result of meeting quotas. He sounded worse than Bushie up there with all his stuttering and changing statements mid-sentence.

[Cheesehead Craig]

They were saying on CNN that historically the debates historically do not affect the voting patterns, if at all it's very slight. The only time the debates made a real difference was when Reagan ran for president the 1st time.

I would say that the debates made a difference in the Election of 1960 (Kennedy v. Nixon.) Kennedy was behind before the first debate and then jumped out ahead after the first debate a lot of that due to Nixon looking physically bad. After that Kennedy never looked back.

Absolutely. The debates essentially made Kennedy president.