Representation without Taxation

[mraynrand]

Re: Representation without Taxation

Just look around you. So many people are working at jobs that require long hours to provide a bare subsistance living

Long hours! Bare subsistence! No benefits! No retirement! No vacation days! Low wages! No health care!

That's right. Open your eyes.

They are wide open and your comments are very revealing.

[mraynrand]

"There is a time in every man’s education when he arrives at the conviction that envy is ignorance; that imitation is suicide; that he must take himself for better for worse as his portion; that though the wide universe is full of good, no kernel of nourishing corn can come to him but through his toil bestowed on that plot of ground which is given to him to till. The power which resides in him is new in nature, and none but he knows what that is which he can do, nor does he know until he has tried."

"But that which a man is, does always by necessity acquire, and what the man acquires, is permanent and living property, which does not wait the beck of rulers, or mobs, or revolutions, or fire, or storm, or bankruptcies, but perpetually renews itself wherever the man is put"

"A political victory, a rise of rents, the recovery of your sick or the return of your absent friend, or some other quite external event raises your spirits, and you think good days are preparing for you. Do not believe it. It can never be so. Nothing can bring you peace but yourself. Nothing can bring you peace but the triumph of principles."

- From Self Reliance

[Cheesehead Craig]

The only way to fix it is to bring it down and start over. Dust off the Guillotines and lets get to work.

Do you think you may have the wrong country? Freedom! Equality! Fraternity! then, later, Napoleon!

Does anyone know what Jefferson originally had in place of 'pursuit of happiness'

In his case, I think that was about chasing around the slave women.

[wist43]

Re: Representation without Taxation

If Taxation without Representation is tyranny, what is Representation without Taxation?

According to IRS data, in the early 1980’s, 17% of the public did not pay any taxes to the Federal Government. By 1990 that number was up to 21%. 1993, it was 24%......01 it was 27%....04 it was 33%.

Under Obama’s plan it will hit 44%. By 2014, it will hit the 50% level.

How is it again that you cook a frog?

What/who makes up the ones that are not paying taxes?

The "Ones" that we have been waiting for.

I am seriously trying to understand this. If you're not paying taxes, then you must not be employed. Or you're wealthy enough to afford loopholes.
Which is it?

My father doesn't pay taxes, yet "makes" over $40,000/yr - tax free.

My father is a disgusting, lazy, piece of shit who has been on the government dole for over 40 years. He has drawn a disability check from the Navy for almost 50 years.

His "disability" is supposedly from asthma... but he doesn't have asthma. What he did, is he is allergic to cats - very allergic - he put cat hair in a jar and walked around sniffing it all day.

He got himself so sick that he was able to fool the Navy Doctor, who gave him a medical discharge and 10% disability - that has since been raised to 100%.

Beyond that, he was in a car accident in which he was severely injured. He was drunk and two women died; however, since the accident technically wasn't his fault - another car crossed the center line - and they didn't routinely test blood alcohol levels back in the 60's, he was able to get onto Social Security disability - despite the fact that he can walk (although with a limp) and otherwise function normally.

After a few years, Social Security reviewed his status and informed him that he would be cut off. My fathers response was similar to what he did to get disability from the Navy - he pickled himself in a liquor bottle to the point where he ended up on the hospital, and Social Security upped his "benefits" b/c of his "disability" due to alcohol abuse.

Beyond that, he rents out small trailers on his property - property he scammed from an old man with alzheimers - and doesn't declare the income.

He's drawn many, many thousands of dollars out of everyone elses pockets, and hasn't paid a dime himself, yet he "makes" over $40,000/year.

He is a professional victim, and a professional free loader... perfectly capable of working, but has found a way to get others to pay his way. Needless to say, he loves the democratic party

Has always said, "if people are dumb enough to give me money for nothing, I'm smart enough to take it". Brags all time about how he doesn't have to pay taxes. Says that people who work for a living are fools.

Makes me ill just thinking about it...

Needless to say, I don't talk to my father anymore... too busy working to pay his way, and the way of every other free loader out there.

[packinpatland]

I'd rather pay my share and his, than live like that.

[mraynrand]

I'd rather pay my share and his, than live like that.

You've taken your first steps into a larger world.

[Fosco33]

Re: Representation without Taxation

This funny, either you have to have no job, or you're too wealthy to pay taxes. When was the last time that you did your taxes? Maybe you should pay more attention, because I certainly haven't paid taxes for the last 4 years and last year my wife was actually working as an attorney.

I would get a better accountant if I was you.

How?

Most employers pay FICA off the top and then you have to pay state/local wage tax.

Do you mean you don't have to pay more in taxes (i.e., you paid enough along the way)?

I just don't see how people don't pay taxes....

[gex]

Re: Representation without Taxation

I'm serious too. At the lower ends, through "tax credits" etc., individuals do NOT pay taxes. This is what we have been trying to say for weeks in this forum.

It's the essence of "redistribution".

So you think the working poor are not pulling their weight.

Have you ever talked to ANYBODY who is getting-by working low wage jobs?

I don't doubt that they pay little or no federal income taxes, although you neglect that they pay a huge percentage of their income on social security tax compared to people who have investment income.

Our economy is built on exploitation of people. Just look around you. So many people are working at jobs that require long hours to provide a bare subsistance living for one person, and can't possibly support a family. Often with no benefits.

Income is not being redistributed to the working poor. They are being allowed to keep enough money to survive so they can continue to serve you. And if they get seriously injured or ill, they are permanently indebted and fucked for this lifetime.

QFT

[sheepshead]

Re: Representation without Taxation

This funny, either you have to have no job, or you're too wealthy to pay taxes. When was the last time that you did your taxes? Maybe you should pay more attention, because I certainly haven't paid taxes for the last 4 years and last year my wife was actually working as an attorney.

I would get a better accountant if I was you.

How?

Most employers pay FICA off the top and then you have to pay state/local wage tax.

Do you mean you don't have to pay more in taxes (i.e., you paid enough along the way)?

I just don't see how people don't pay taxes....

Barrys talking about federal income tax. Most people with a mortgage, kids, medical bills, retirement contributions, flexible spending accounts, charitable contributions, pay little or no federal income tax when its all said and done. This is dem rhetoric we hear ever four years.

Total election year hooey.

[HowardRoark]

Re: Representation without Taxation

If Taxation without Representation is tyranny, what is Representation without Taxation?

According to IRS data, in the early 1980’s, 17% of the public did not pay any taxes to the Federal Government. By 1990 that number was up to 21%. 1993, it was 24%......01 it was 27%....04 it was 33%.

Under Obama’s plan it will hit 44%. By 2014, it will hit the 50% level.

How is it again that you cook a frog?

Howard those stats are extremely biased. It should say did not pay any income tax to the federal government.

All wage earners pay payroll yax of 7.65% on there first $102,000 of income in 2008 after that it drops to 1.45%.

It also doesn't take into effect different segments of the business world. I have a client who usually makes $1,000,000 per year. Last year he lost $250,000 so would be classified as paying no taxes to the federal government. In fact, we completed a NOL Carryback and he received over a $60,000 refund. He still lives in his $3,000,000 house.

Then there is the gas tax that everyone with a car pays.

On top of that there is sales tax and property taxes that the state and municipalities collect.

I'm not sure what your point is but in the early 80s before the Reagan tax cut we had a 50% tax bracket and 83% of Americans were paying tax. Higher taxation led to more jobs and income to report on tax returns?

See how easy it is to manipulate statistics to say what you want.

I guess because I mentioned the IRS I thought it was apparent that I was talking about Income Taxes. I am not trying to be a smart ass by saying that, just trying to clear it up; also for Fosco33. The Payroll taxes are there for everyone, and every employer up to $102,000. That will change after The Autobigropher is elected. But to a certain extent aren’t these really NOT even taxes? Theoretically, they are a “forced” savings plan because all of us sheep have been dumbed down to the point we can’t even figure out how to save for retirement….(buy a house, educate our kids, buy healthcare, etc, etc). So, just to be clear, I was referring to Income taxes.

I am not a CPA, but Capital losses can only be written off against Capital gains. I think you can write off $3,000 against ordinary income. As far as your client, I take you at your word. I would be interested in hearing more about how to do that though.

You actually re-make the point that a few others have made here today about all the other taxes we pay every time we turn around, or die for that matter. Kind of makes me ill when I add it all up, ends up being around 50 cents on every dollar earned.

[Deputy Nutz]

Re: Representation without Taxation

This funny, either you have to have no job, or you're too wealthy to pay taxes. When was the last time that you did your taxes? Maybe you should pay more attention, because I certainly haven't paid taxes for the last 4 years and last year my wife was actually working as an attorney.

I would get a better accountant if I was you.

How?

Most employers pay FICA off the top and then you have to pay state/local wage tax.

Do you mean you don't have to pay more in taxes (i.e., you paid enough along the way)?

I just don't see how people don't pay taxes....

Barrys talking about federal income tax. Most people with a mortgage, kids, medical bills, retirement contributions, flexible spending accounts, charitable contributions, pay little or no federal income tax when its all said and done. This is dem rhetoric we hear ever four years.

Total election year hooey.

Well lets all give Sheepshead a big round of applause, he figured it out. He is smarter than packinpatland.

Enjoy the compliment because I only hand those out to really special people.

[LL2]

Re: Representation without Taxation

This funny, either you have to have no job, or you're too wealthy to pay taxes. When was the last time that you did your taxes? Maybe you should pay more attention, because I certainly haven't paid taxes for the last 4 years and last year my wife was actually working as an attorney.

I would get a better accountant if I was you.

How?

Most employers pay FICA off the top and then you have to pay state/local wage tax.

Do you mean you don't have to pay more in taxes (i.e., you paid enough along the way)?

I just don't see how people don't pay taxes....

Barrys talking about federal income tax. Most people with a mortgage, kids, medical bills, retirement contributions, flexible spending accounts, charitable contributions, pay little or no federal income tax when its all said and done. This is dem rhetoric we hear ever four years.

Total election year hooey.

Well lets all give Sheepshead a big round of applause, he figured it out. He is smarter than packinpatland.

Enjoy the compliment because I only hand those out to really special people.

[sheepshead]

DN you really need to get a life man, honest to God. (what's Packinpatland have to do with anything?)

[Deputy Nutz]

DN you really need to get a life man, honest to God. (what's Packinpatland have to do with anything?)

She is the one who questioned how I didn't pay taxes.


By the way my life is just fine, loving every minute of it.

[HowardRoark]

Does anyone know what Jefferson originally had in place of 'pursuit of happiness'

I'm not sure, but I DO think that Obama (and a few people here) should rent the movie The Pursuit of Happyness.