Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

How wealth is created...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • How wealth is created...

    So, I have an idea in my head...

    That idea could potentially (a) improve the quality of life for many people, (b) provide thousands of jobs for people, and (c) increase the wealth of our country.

    Now, for me to give up my current, safe occupation to pursue this idea will be a risk. Risk costs. I must have some promise that the wealth generated by my idea will more than compensate for the loss of my current, safe occupation.

    Profit is thus the cost of my risk.

    Now, when the government imposes taxes on those profits, under the demogogic claim that I am "the rich who has not paid my fair share," all that does is tell me, "The risk is no longer worth it." I do not pursue my idea. Quality of life is not improved. Jobs are not created.

    But here's the thing...

    No one knows it. If an idea falls in the woods, and no one hears it, was the idea there in the first place? Who knows. It doesn't matter.

    But in real terms, the real money has indeed been spread around. So the poor feel better about it, because they have indeed gotten that $3,000 check from the Feds.

    They are not able to fathom that they COULD have been employed by me for ten times that much or more, because I would need someone to help put my idea into production.

    Which leads to a simple conclusion: Capitalism, while far more rational, is monumentally more difficult to fathom. Socialism, while fare more irrational, works as excellent demagoguery.

    History shows that capitalistic societies have increased wealth. It's not a pie at all, as if the West got rich by stealing from the East, or Africa. The pie gets bigger and bigger. Capitalism has shown to be the single system that provides opportunity for a people. Bar none. This is not even open to debate. It's so clear its like arguing that freedom of religion is better in America than in Iran.

    Economics shows that capitialism is the most rational. And recent history has shown that the economy expands when taxes are lowered.

    Social history shows that collectivism can only advance when some basic rights are taken away, and that extreme forms of collectivism results in stacks of bloody corpses.

    It all is so obvious, rational, and clear. Why, then, are we surrounded by so many fools?

    The only conclusion is that Alinsky was correct. The battle of the Left will only be won as they do their "long march through the institutions."

    That having been done, we have a body politic full of ignorant citizens, who do not know history, certainly not economics, or civics.

    It's quite sad.

  • #2
    I can't recommend the entire book, but chapter four is worth reading



    "Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: How wealth is created...

      Originally posted by Cy
      That having been done, we have a body politic full of ignorant citizens, who do not know history, certainly not economics, or civics.

      It's quite sad.
      It certainly is.
      "There's a lot of interest in the draft. It's great. But quite frankly, most of the people that are commenting on it don't know anything about what they are talking about."--Ted Thompson

      Comment


      • #4
        This gets me to thinking about Justin Harrell's "Jesus was a liberal" avatar. Maybe he thinks the liberal redistribution of wealth is something Jesus would be for (of course, overlooking the fact that he believed life began in the womb and that homosexuality was a sin). And it sounds cool, right? No question that Jesus was for the poor. I won't claim that Jesus was a conservative. That would be doing him injustice. I'll just say that it's a stretch to think that Jesus thought big government was the best way to help the poor. Jesus said to give 10% of all your things to the poor. He didn't say give 10% to the government instead of charity, so they can blow 50% of the money you give. I can't blame some for not following Jesus on this. It's hard to do when so much of your money goes to the government already. Do what you can though. You'll get back more from giving than what you gave up.
        "There's a lot of interest in the draft. It's great. But quite frankly, most of the people that are commenting on it don't know anything about what they are talking about."--Ted Thompson

        Comment


        • #5
          so what is your idea?

          I didn't see one in that post
          I am better looking than you.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by arcilite
            so what is your idea?

            I didn't see one in that post
            Too many pollysllables for you? How about this.....

            We need no change!

            Help the poor!

            Don't tread on me!
            After lunch the players lounged about the hotel patio watching the surf fling white plumes high against the darkening sky. Clouds were piling up in the west… Vince Lombardi frowned.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: How wealth is created...

              Originally posted by Cy
              extreme forms of collectivism results in stacks of bloody corpses.
              True. And extreme forms of capitalism have led to the failure of the financial markets in the U.S., and a every-man-for-himself healthcare system that leaves many people uninsurable.

              I am not able to think up a good analogy for the relationship between capitalism and socialism. OK, here's one that will do: they are like gasoline and air in an internal combustion engine.

              You need both elements in balance. Arguing that air is bad, it robs the engine of power is sort of true. And arguing that gasoline is bad because it floods the engine is also true enough.

              (I know, socialism is the hot air.)

              Your speech on the virtues of capitalism is true enough. But also simple minded and unhelpful. We need free markets plus checks on the free market. We need incentives and a safety net.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: How wealth is created...

                Originally posted by Harlan Huckleby
                and a every-man-for-himself healthcare system that leaves many people uninsurable.
                What kind of underwriting issues do all of these people have? Sounds to me like an epidemic of sorts.
                After lunch the players lounged about the hotel patio watching the surf fling white plumes high against the darkening sky. Clouds were piling up in the west… Vince Lombardi frowned.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by HarveyWallbangers
                  This gets me to thinking about Justin Harrell's "Jesus was a liberal" avatar. Maybe he thinks the liberal redistribution of wealth is something Jesus would be for (of course, overlooking the fact that he believed life began in the womb and that homosexuality was a sin). And it sounds cool, right? No question that Jesus was for the poor. I won't claim that Jesus was a conservative. That would be doing him injustice. I'll just say that it's a stretch to think that Jesus thought big government was the best way to help the poor. Jesus said to give 10% of all your things to the poor. He didn't say give 10% to the government instead of charity, so they can blow 50% of the money you give. I can't blame some for not following Jesus on this. It's hard to do when so much of your money goes to the government already. Do what you can though. You'll get back more from giving than what you gave up.
                  Harv, Jesus clearly told others to do as he did, to walk in his path. Give up your possessions and follow me, he said. My view is that what he advocated for people - to live according to his example - was in effect impossible. But he knew that. He knew we would fall short - to sin. That's WHY HE WAS HERE. We sin, but we are forgiven through his grace.

                  So we are called to give up our possessions and follow him
                  We are called to turn the other cheek when struck on the first
                  We are called to love our enemy
                  We are called to feed and clothe the poor
                  We are called to visit the prisoner
                  and all the other teachings of Christ


                  These are things we are called to do, but we know we will fall short. It is my belief that we cannot perfectly achieve this because we are 'fallen' beings. In a more contemporary way, we have free will, and will therefore regularly choose the wrong path (very often, in fact. Worse for some, better for others, but always we will imperfectly follow Christ).
                  So, as far as giving up all that we have, the inability to do so is in part due to our sinful nature - our free will.

                  But that is not the only reason. The second is that we live in a world that is imperfect and still must survive. Christ understood the difference between the Kingdom of God and the realm of the earth - they are separate magesteria - that is why he told us to render unto Caesar what is Caesars' and unto God what is God's (Giving to Caesar is essentially obeying the law). If you read Luke 23, starting with the 39th verse, you find the Prisoner on the cross next to Jesus. The prisoner believes and Jesus tells him that 'today you will be with me in paradise.' What is remarkable - after the saving of the prisoner's soul - is that the Prisoner dies on the cross. Jesus could save his soul, but he still had to suffer his fate for his acts in this earthy realm. And so it is with everything else. With taxes and laws, etc. We must live according to earthy law, that we hopefully make closer to the teaching of Christ, but all the while knowing that the perfection of living as Christ taught is impossible in this realm.

                  So giving to the poor or less fortunate is a virtue, but how we give - through the filter of government programs, through charities, through donation of time and teaching, etc. is up to us here on this earth. What do we choose? How do we choose to help the poor? There is no edict from Christ to give to a government to disperse to the poor, only that we should help the poor. We should probably do so in the way that works best - the way that helps the most poor. And of course, there are vigorous disagreements as to which method will benefit the most, which I won't address in this post.
                  "Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by HowardRoark
                    Originally posted by Harlan Huckleby
                    and a every-man-for-himself healthcare system that leaves many people uninsurable.
                    What kind of underwriting issues do all of these people have? Sounds to me like an epidemic of sorts.
                    I've been through the health insurance ringer. If you are over 40, have had ANY health problems, it is essentially impossible to get private health insurance.

                    I went without health insurance for a long time. Recently got insured through a SOCIALIST program offered by the State of Wisconsin, HIRSP. (Actually it is laughable to call it socialist, it is still absurdly expensive, but at least it is something. I am poor enough on paper to qualify, rich enough in reality to make payments.)

                    There are categories of people who can get health insurance without going through an employer-provided plan. If you are young and healthy. IF you are over 65 there is medicare. Disabled in certain categories. Poor with children are eligible with assistance.

                    Yet many people are left uninsured because of costs or pre-existing conditions. 60 million have no insurance.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: How wealth is created...

                      Originally posted by Harlan Huckleby
                      True. And extreme forms of capitalism have led to the failure of the financial markets in the U.S.
                      Wouldn't you at least agree that an extreme form of socialism - forcing the sale of homes to people that can't pay for them (and artificially driving up demand) - also contributed to the failure of the financial markets? Or will you only look for failures of capitalism.
                      "Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: How wealth is created...

                        Originally posted by mraynrand
                        Originally posted by Harlan Huckleby
                        True. And extreme forms of capitalism have led to the failure of the financial markets in the U.S.
                        Wouldn't you at least agree that an extreme form of socialism - forcing the sale of homes to people that can't pay for them (and artificially driving up demand) - also contributed to the failure of the financial markets? Or will you only look for failures of capitalism.
                        ya, that was part of problem, I don't know what percentage of problem.

                        but we could lump it all under "deregulation"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Harlan Huckleby
                          Originally posted by HowardRoark
                          Originally posted by Harlan Huckleby
                          and a every-man-for-himself healthcare system that leaves many people uninsurable.
                          What kind of underwriting issues do all of these people have? Sounds to me like an epidemic of sorts.
                          I've been through the health insurance ringer. If you are over 40, have had ANY health problems, it is essentially impossible to get private health insurance.

                          I went without health insurance for a long time. Recently got insured through a SOCIALIST program offered by the State of Wisconsin, HIRSP. (Actually it is laughable to call it socialist, it is still absurdly expensive, but at least it is something. I am poor enough on paper to qualify, rich enough in reality to make payments.)

                          There are categories of people who can get health insurance without going through an employer-provided plan. If you are young and healthy. IF you are over 65 there is medicare. Disabled in certain categories. Poor with children are eligible with assistance.

                          Yet many people are left uninsured because of costs or pre-existing conditions. 60 million have no insurance.
                          Sorry to hear about your troubles. Truly I am. I'm also horrified that the number of uninsured seems to have gone up 10 million since your healthcare post last week.
                          "Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mraynrand
                            Sorry to hear about your troubles. Truly I am. I'm also horrified that the number of uninsured seems to have gone up 10 million since your healthcare post last week.

                            well, we're getting close to the election.

                            times are rough, man.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: How wealth is created...

                              Originally posted by Harlan Huckleby

                              but we could lump it all under "deregulation"
                              Or bad regulation. Bad regulation in forcing banks to make bad loans. Bad regulation in allowing bad securities to be mixed and sold with the good. Regulation, like democracies(republics) don't work if the people in control are morally bankrupt.
                              "Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X