Proposition 8

[mraynrand]

And greenday, (Mr Fancypants with his PhDs) added some lucidity. .

We should gt that guy to log on. We need a Mr. Fancypants here.

[swede]

My favorite West Wing episode:

West Wing: the television show that fantasized about liberal issues and presented weekly smackdowns of evil, hateful Republicans, allowing liberal ladies to survive the Bush era by pretending the President was really a Democrat.

[GrnBay007]

Bump Set Spike

A beautiful site when played perfectly!! :P


...sorry, I have a passion for V-ball.

[Zool]

Blue 98......blue 98....check

Razor razor razor

red 319.....red 319

[Harlan Huckleby]

Cy: Obama is. He wants everyone to be his brother's keeper.

Cool! Imposing religion is back in style!

The idea that government should work for the common good and relieve suffering is nothing new, it has building for about 250 years, and especially the last 100 years.

IT seems that you, Partial, Wist, AynRand believe we can return to the world of 1800, when men were men and people fended for themselves. Charles Dickens wrote about the early 19th century, have a look. The great experiement of small government and unbridled enterprise has already been tried.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Blacks approved the ban 70-30 in both CA and FL. Just an FYI.

Blacks are great opponents of bigotry. Except when they are against gays, asians and hispanics.

[mraynrand]

Cy: Obama is. He wants everyone to be his brother's keeper.

Cool! Imposing religion is back in style!

The idea that government should work for the common good and relieve suffering is nothing new, it has building for about 250 years, and especially the last 100 years.

IT seems that you, Partial, Wist, AynRand believe we can return to the world of 1800, when men were men and people fended for themselves. Charles Dickens wrote about the early 19th century, have a look. The great experiement of small government and unbridled enterprise has already been tried.

Harlan, you are very passionate. The idea that people should work for the common good and relieve suffering is nothing new - it has been around since the dawn of mankind. . The idea that an overarching government is necessary for this to work other than by free will is a recent invention. And the last 100 years you refer to haven't provided a sterling endorsement for government enforcement of 'the common good.' Desperate folks looking for a better life through collectivism and government control spawned Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc. etc. If you look throughout the history of the United States and the colonies, you will actually find that free men, working together voluntarily, accomplished great things and lived extremely well, all without intrusive government control. The great experiment you talk of has been tried and it is the only one that produced fantastic wealth, fantastic increases in standard of living, and opportunity. Unfortunately it is starting to fail, because people want to usher back in the protection of a great leader and a great government that will care for all our needs.

[texaspackerbacker]

Blacks approved the ban 70-30 in both CA and FL. Just an FYI.

Blacks are great opponents of bigotry. Except when they are against gays, asians and hispanics.

Exactly what I have said many times--except I framed it as a good thing.

Black people are indeed, moral and normal on social issues to an even greater extent than white people--which makes it a damn shame that 95% or so of them vote CONTRARY to those pristine values like opposing homosexuality.

How did this thread get hijacked onto the government/collectivism versus individualism discussion?

What you are ignoring or overlooking, Harlan, is that collectivism has invariably resulted in the societies practicing it being dragged down, while the cumulative effect of the self interest of individuals--which is the essence of free enterprise capitalism--has invariably resulted in prosperity and the collective uplifting of all. The glitch in the system--which you cited--is that unregulated capitalism sometimes turns on itself in the form of monopolies--which stifle all those lofty collective benefits rooted in individual self interest.

Modern-day liberals, closet socialists that most of them are, would throw out the baby with the bath water by crippling the prosperity brought to us by our magnificent American free enterprise capitalist system.

[th87]

My favorite West Wing episode:

West Wing: the television show that fantasized about liberal issues and presented weekly smackdowns of evil, hateful Republicans, allowing liberal ladies to survive the Bush era by pretending the President was really a Democrat.

Though this may be, the guy was dead-on with respect to the picking and choosing of Biblical laws to obey.

[th87]

Looks like our tidy little liberal fictional president (who seems a lot like our not so fictional president elect) was choosing passages a la carte - as is Ty Bigguns. Not to mention out of historical context.

Agreed with the context thing. People are always quoting the Quran out of context to purport that it preaches hate.

[th87]

Throw a child into the mix and I become homophobic. No amount of freedoms guaranteed by any consitution on earth will change my opinion on this. In fact, constitutions should be amended to prohibit this.

One question. Why?

What happens if a child is adopted by a gay couple?

What do you feel will be the outcome?

Well, that's actually 3 questions, but semantics aside, I am happy to answer them.

1. Why? = Because God, Divinity Nature saw fit to have to sexes necessary to produce.

2. What if? = The child has no chance at being adopted by a hetero couple, which I feel, is a bad thing.

3. Outcome = The big unknown. At best, they will spread the word that being Gay is a nice thing. At worst, they will be taught that being Gay is the ONLY thing.

It remains unnatural any way you want to spin it.

I might lose any credibility I ever had here on this forum over this issue. I might lose all of my friends. That would really sadden me a great deal. But I will defend my position irrationally until I die. And that position is very very clear.

"Gays should never be entrusted with the rearing of our offspring. Ever"

1. The lack of production ability doesn't necessarily mean that raising ability is impaired. What are the necessary ingredients to raise a child anyway?

Teach the kid love, respect, and perspective. You're telling me gay people can't do that?

2. Heterosexual couples get first preference, so this isn't an issue.

3. Here's where we'll have to agree to disagree. Homosexuality is not a choice. Not a socialized behavior. I find it impossible to believe that someone would CHOOSE to face a life of ridicule, hardship, and avoidance.

[Kiwon]

Looks like our tidy little liberal fictional president (who seems a lot like our not so fictional president elect) was choosing passages a la carte - as is Ty Bigguns. Not to mention out of historical context.

Agreed with the context thing. People are always quoting the Quran out of context to purport that it preaches hate.

Who?

[Tarlam!]

I find it impossible to believe that someone would CHOOSE to face a life of ridicule, hardship, and avoidance.

Indeed. I find it even harder to believe a "loving parent" would subject his adoptive offspring to exactly this environment consciously. Gay adoptive "parents" indeed choose this environment for their charges.

Homosexual love is clearly egotistical. Completely and utterly. It is all about "ME". "I want to fuck men, but I want a child, despite the fact that 88% of humans are not like me, despite the fact that my partner and I cannot reproduce because neither of us has ever has a womb.

I am a better parent, because I know the difference between red and scarlet. I can sing 'I will survive' verbatim and I know Prado shoes from fake Luis Vuitton handbags!!! Screeeech and schrieeeeek "

Look, homo, buy a fucking goldfish.

[falco]

I find it impossible to believe that someone would CHOOSE to face a life of ridicule, hardship, and avoidance.

Indeed. I find it even harder to believe a "loving parent" would subject his adoptive offspring to exactly this environment. Gay adoptive "parentzs" ideed choose this environment for their charges.

Homosexual love is clearly egotistical. Completely and utterly. It is all about "ME". I want a child, despite the fact that 88% of humans are not like me, despite the fact that my partner and i cannot reproduce.

Look, homo, buy a fucking goldfish.

whaT?

[Tarlam!]

whaT?

What what?