SIGH... McNabb + Election = Idiot.

[SkinBasket]

Donovan McNabb grew up in Chicago never believing he would see a black man become president.

Perhaps that was one reason why the 31-year-old Philadelphia Eagles quarterback didn't register to vote until this election.

McNabb, though, had met Barack Obama, believed in his ideas and supported his policies. Watching Obama deliver his victory speech at Grant Park brought back all sorts of memories.

"It reminded me of, obviously, when Martin Luther King spoke and the messages that he spoke about," McNabb said Wednesday. "As a man, if you teared up, it was acceptable because it was that deep.

"For the first time, I had the opportunity to vote and I can say that I was a part of it," he said.

Seriously? For the first time he had the OPPORTUNITY to vote? And then he invokes MLK!? Good fucking Christ.

[Zool]

Thats amazing that "It reminded me of, obviously, when Martin Luther King spoke and the messages that he spoke about," being that King was killed in '68.

Why isn't he just honest and say he never wanted to vote for whitey?

[falco]

maybe rush limbaugh was right

[mraynrand]

He should have at least voted for Clinton - many believe he was our first black president.

[hoosier]

Re: SIGH... McNabb + Election = Idiot.

Donovan McNabb grew up in Chicago never believing he would see a black man become president.

Perhaps that was one reason why the 31-year-old Philadelphia Eagles quarterback didn't register to vote until this election.

McNabb, though, had met Barack Obama, believed in his ideas and supported his policies. Watching Obama deliver his victory speech at Grant Park brought back all sorts of memories.

"It reminded me of, obviously, when Martin Luther King spoke and the messages that he spoke about," McNabb said Wednesday. "As a man, if you teared up, it was acceptable because it was that deep.

"For the first time, I had the opportunity to vote and I can say that I was a part of it ," he said.

Seriously? For the first time he had the OPPORTUNITY to vote? And then he invokes MLK!? Good fucking Christ.

Fixed. McNabb isn't choosing his words very carefully here, but what I take him to mean is that something changes fundamentally when you're voting and you see concrete proof that someone who shares your experiences could be elected president. Like it or not, the vast majority of blacks in the US feel themselves to be defined by the color of their skin--when society sees McNabb walk into a liquor store they see a black guy, and when society sees Andy Reid walk into a liquor store they just see a (very large) customer. "White" is socially invisible--whites are seen as individuals with all their flaws and strengths--whereas "black" is so visible that it blinds us to everything else. Whites don't like to hear this, and that's why comments like McNabb's rile them up so much.

[mraynrand]

Re: SIGH... McNabb + Election = Idiot.

Like it or not, the vast majority of blacks in the US feel themselves to be defined by the color of their skin-.

About 50% of blacks in a recent poll said they thought of themselves as black first, American second. About 6% of Whites had thought of themselves as white first. Not a vast majority, but very significant.

[hoosier]

Re: SIGH... McNabb + Election = Idiot.

Like it or not, the vast majority of blacks in the US feel themselves to be defined by the color of their skin-.

About 50% of blacks in a recent poll said they thought of themselves as black first, American second. About 6% of Whites had thought of themselves as white first. Not a vast majority, but very significant.

Those are two different things: what do you identify with is not the same as how do people see you and how do they pigeon-hole you. But back to the original point: McNabb is saying (I think) that having a black candidate on the ticket is meaningful because it provides a new kind of evidence that the field is level.

My guess is that Obama's victory won't make the negative sentiments expressed by McNabb go away overnight for the black community in the US, but that the emphasis on race in elections will start to decrease, and will hopefully continue to do so until it's as insignificant as religious demonination.

[pacfan]

Re: SIGH... McNabb + Election = Idiot.

Like it or not, the vast majority of blacks in the US feel themselves to be defined by the color of their skin-.

About 50% of blacks in a recent poll said they thought of themselves as black first, American second. About 6% of Whites had thought of themselves as white first. Not a vast majority, but very significant.

I wonder how many people consider themselves a member of their state first and American second, a state like Texas for instance.

I would ask Tex, but I fear that the Obama freaks are already looking for him

[mraynrand]

Re: SIGH... McNabb + Election = Idiot.

Like it or not, the vast majority of blacks in the US feel themselves to be defined by the color of their skin-.

About 50% of blacks in a recent poll said they thought of themselves as black first, American second. About 6% of Whites had thought of themselves as white first. Not a vast majority, but very significant.

Those are two different things: what do you identify with is not the same as how do people see you and how do they pigeon-hole you.

I see. You are comparing self-defined with defined by others. If the vast majority of blacks think they are defined or 'pigeon-holed' (by others) by the color of their skin, then the vast majority are wrong. The number of people who judge using skin color has dramatically dropped. There were tons of polls showing exactly this during the campaign. And everyone here who voted Obama seems to vociferously claim the same thing - that skin color had nothing to do with their vote. That 'pigeon holed' thinking is largely unsupported.

[mraynrand]

Re: SIGH... McNabb + Election = Idiot.

Like it or not, the vast majority of blacks in the US feel themselves to be defined by the color of their skin-.

About 50% of blacks in a recent poll said they thought of themselves as black first, American second. About 6% of Whites had thought of themselves as white first. Not a vast majority, but very significant.

I wonder how many people consider themselves a member of their state first and American second, a state like Texas for instance.

I would ask Tex, but I fear that the Obama freaks are already looking for him

I identify myself by fire hydrant first, coat color second.

[HowardRoark]

Re: SIGH... McNabb + Election = Idiot.

Like it or not, the vast majority of blacks in the US feel themselves to be defined by the color of their skin-.

About 50% of blacks in a recent poll said they thought of themselves as black first, American second. About 6% of Whites had thought of themselves as white first. Not a vast majority, but very significant.

Those are two different things: what do you identify with is not the same as how do people see you and how do they pigeon-hole you. But back to the original point: McNabb is saying (I think) that having a black candidate on the ticket is meaningful because it provides a new kind of evidence that the field is level.

My guess is that Obama's victory won't make the negative sentiments expressed by McNabb go away overnight for the black community in the US, but that the emphasis on race in elections will start to decrease, and will hopefully continue to do so until it's as insignificant as religious demonination.

Hoosier, this is at least the second time you have metnioned how people "think" of blacks.

Could you enlighten me and tell me how I should be pigeon-holing them? I decided I need to start thinking a whole lot more about the color of people's skin. Clearly something is wrong with me.

You seem like a pretty smart guy. Teach me how to pigeon-hole people based on their skin color.

[hoosier]

Re: SIGH... McNabb + Election = Idiot.

Like it or not, the vast majority of blacks in the US feel themselves to be defined by the color of their skin-.

About 50% of blacks in a recent poll said they thought of themselves as black first, American second. About 6% of Whites had thought of themselves as white first. Not a vast majority, but very significant.

Those are two different things: what do you identify with is not the same as how do people see you and how do they pigeon-hole you.

I see. You are comparing self-defined with defined by others. If the vast majority of blacks think they are defined or 'pigeon-holed' (by others) by the color of their skin, then the vast majority are wrong. The number of people who judge using skin color has dramatically dropped. There were tons of polls showing exactly this during the campaign. And everyone here who voted Obama seems to vociferously claim the same thing - that skin color had nothing to do with their vote. That 'pigeon holed' thinking is largely unsupported.

I agree that pigeon-holing according to race didn't play a big part in the elections, and that it isn't a major factor in most people's conscious behavior. But I do think it comes into play subconsciously. But that's another thread. The main point that McNabb is trying to make, I think, is that with black community Obama's skin color is important because it is a first. Before, blacks were allowed to vote and a black could in principle become president, but it had never happened and some (whites and blacks) felt this country wasn't ready for a black president. If you don't know what I'm talking about, look at Sheep's comments leading up to the election. If, four years from now, McNabb is still singing the same song, then I'll have to eat my words.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I agree with Skin, McNabb's comments are stupid.

However, he is still available for trade from my fantasy team if anyone is interested.

[SkinBasket]

Re: SIGH... McNabb + Election = Idiot.

Donovan McNabb grew up in Chicago never believing he would see a black man become president.

Perhaps that was one reason why the 31-year-old Philadelphia Eagles quarterback didn't register to vote until this election.

McNabb, though, had met Barack Obama, believed in his ideas and supported his policies. Watching Obama deliver his victory speech at Grant Park brought back all sorts of memories.

"It reminded me of, obviously, when Martin Luther King spoke and the messages that he spoke about," McNabb said Wednesday. "As a man, if you teared up, it was acceptable because it was that deep.

"For the first time, I had the opportunity to vote and I can say that I was a part of it ," he said.

Seriously? For the first time he had the OPPORTUNITY to vote? And then he invokes MLK!? Good fucking Christ.

Fixed. McNabb isn't choosing his words very carefully here, but what I take him to mean is that something changes fundamentally when you're voting and you see concrete proof that someone who shares your experiences could be elected president. Like it or not, the vast majority of blacks in the US feel themselves to be defined by the color of their skin--when society sees McNabb walk into a liquor store they see a black guy, and when society sees Andy Reid walk into a liquor store they just see a (very large) customer. "White" is socially invisible--whites are seen as individuals with all their flaws and strengths--whereas "black" is so visible that it blinds us to everything else. Whites don't like to hear this, and that's why comments like McNabb's rile them up so much.

Well that sounds like a bunch of apologist nonsense. The guy didn't vote until there was a black candidate. He didn't even register. Then he talks about MLK's message? That's not about identity or perception. That's plain ignorance.

[Deputy Nutz]

What do you know about ignorance?