Who is a christian and what does that mean

[HarveyWallbangers]

Question posed to the panel.

There are two men.

One donates heavily to charity, is involved in his community, always helps others, and lives a good and moral life. He does not identify Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior.

The other man is, more or less, a bum. He is really only concerned about himself and how his life is going. He could care less about other peoples' lives. He goes to church every Sunday and strongly identifies Christ as his Lord and Savior.

Which man is more deserving of a place in heaven?

Strongly identifies? Does that mean truly believes in his heart? I'd argue that if he truly believed it, he wouldn't live his life without care for others.

Ephesians 4:31-32

Get rid of all bitterness, rage, anger, harsh words, and slander, as well as all types of evil behavior.

Instead, be kind to each other, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God through Christ has forgiven you.

Proverbs 21:13

Those who shut their ears to the cries of the poor will be ignored in their own time of need.

[HowardRoark]

Which man is more deserving of a place in heaven?

Neither. Nobody deserves heaven.

[BallHawk]

Question #2 posed to the panel.

There are two men.

One donates heavily to charity, is involved in his community, always helps others, and lives a good and moral life. He does not identify Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior.

The other also donates heavily to charity, is involved in his community, always helps others, and lives a good and moral life. He is a true believer that Jesus Christ is his Lord and Savior.

Is one man more deserving of a place in heaven than the other?

[HowardRoark]

Is one man more deserving of a place in heaven than the other?

No.

[MadScientist]

I hate religion

If you had some you would learn not to hate.

Yea, highly religious people never hate.

I said "learn", what one does with the lesson is another matter.

It depends on which lessons they learn.
"If any man come unto me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple" [Luke xiv. 26.]

"Think not that I am come to send peace bn earth; I came not to send peace, but a, sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law, and a man's foes they shall be of his own household." [Matthew x. 34-36.]

"Every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands for my sake, shall receive an hundred fold, and shall inherit everlasting life." [Matthew xix. 29.]

“But these enemies of mine who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here, and slay them before me.” (Luke 19:27)

And this does not even touch the old testament (God Hates Fags anyone?). Which can't be tossed, since it is foundation for the New Testament.

You can make a case for just about anything in the Bible, which is a strong case for not believing in the god it describes.

[BallHawk]

What do YOU think?

The answer depends on what you believe to be true about heaven and salvation.

Well, my personal belief is that heaven is not based on what religion you adhere to or what deity you call your lord, it is about your acts on earth that decide what the afterlife holds for you.

What I don't understand is any religion saying that if you don't accept their supreme god as the one and only than you will not achieve the same afterlife as somebody that does believe, no matter how those people have lived their life.

[arcilite]

You can make a case for just about anything in the Bible, which is a strong case for not believing in the god it describes.

This.

[retailguy]

Question #2 posed to the panel.

There are two men.

One donates heavily to charity, is involved in his community, always helps others, and lives a good and moral life. He does not identify Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior.

The other also donates heavily to charity, is involved in his community, always helps others, and lives a good and moral life. He is a true believer that Jesus Christ is his Lord and Savior.

Is one man more deserving of a place in heaven than the other?

Still the same answer as #1. Salvation is a gift that you cannot earn. You are missing the point. Your analogies are good, provided, that you hold the ability to "earn" something. But you don't. That is the purpose of grace. Analogies such as yours are something that mainstream Christianity still struggles with.

[retailguy]

You can make a case for just about anything in the Bible, which is a strong case for not believing in the god it describes.

This.

If you continually take things out of context and don't understand the meaning of Jewish society in the time of Jesus, then, yes, you can arrive at this conclusion.

However, if you follow the most recognized theological interpretations that take these things into account, you will not arrive at these conclusions.

Quite honestly, there isn't another book on the face of the earth that has been scrutinized more than the Bible. There are literally thousands of scholars that have spent their lives interpreting and analyzing what the Bible says. The majority have come to a consensus on "most" issues.

[MadScientist]

I hate religion

Arcilite, I hope you "see the light." It's a lot easier going through this life, with its many ups and downs, knowing that He is guiding us. At least, for me it is. I didn't grow up in a religious family. I considered myself agnostic through much of my younger years, but now I don't know what I'd do without knowing He is with me. God, family, and then the Green Bay Packers. I'm with Vince on that one.

going through life thinking im following some invisible guy in the clouds? no thanks

ill live my life by my own code

There's always the unified church of Lambeau. It has weekly services 20+ times a year (usually on Sunday), all believers hope and try to make a pilgrimage to the holy shrine, and during most of the services, a million people will scream "Jesus Crist!" at least once or twice.

[sheepshead]

Ohhh yeah dats a beautiful ting alright.

[GoPackGo]

[GoPackGo]

I'm an Evangelical Christian and I agree with all of this. I don't go to church much though. I don't believe going to church is neccessary or required to get to Heaven.

How do you feel about the Theocracy coming to an end?

Depends on what you mean by theocracy coming to an end.

The Media would lead you to believe it, but despite the Catholic church's highly publicized mistakes, organized religion isn't going anywhere.

or

I think separation of church and state is everything and I hope the church's part in government does come to an end in my lifetime.

[Harlan Huckleby]

why would God give a flying fuck if you believed in him?

and in particular, why would God make non-believers burn in hell for eternity. That seems awfully small of Him.

[MadScientist]

You can make a case for just about anything in the Bible, which is a strong case for not believing in the god it describes.

This.

If you continually take things out of context and don't understand the meaning of Jewish society in the time of Jesus, then, yes, you can arrive at this conclusion.

However, if you follow the most recognized theological interpretations that take these things into account, you will not arrive at these conclusions.

Quite honestly, there isn't another book on the face of the earth that has been scrutinized more than the Bible. There are literally thousands of scholars that have spent their lives interpreting and analyzing what the Bible says. The majority have come to a consensus on "most" issues.

If all the scholars agree so much, then why are there so many different Christian denominations, preaching different things, all of which they defend using the bible?